Unarmed melee character on HoF : my wood elf nun/rogue

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:02 am

Difficulty settings : HoF + Tactics4IWD2 + Undead Targos/Tougher Torak.
Special rules : exclusively barehanded melee, no weapons, no armor, no spellcasting except for protective spells coming from wearing items and few protective scrolls usable by everybody.

Well, I'm trying to build a nice pure melee character, unarmed and without armor (without using spells as well), able to survive on HoF from scratch. So far, a monk (Ancient Order)/rogue seems the best choice.

Here's my character :

Xenia, F, wood elf, nun(Ancient Order)/rogue, initial stats : 20/20/8/8/10/8.
She has now level 7/7 using mainly sneak attacks and hit'n'run tactics.
Remark: wood elves have +2 in Str and Dex and -2 in Con,Int and Cha
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Finally, I was not entirely satisfied with my char and restarted with a newly created one:

Xenia, F, strongheart halfling, nun/rogue, initial stats: 15/20/10/13/10/8. Current status : level 14/3, stats : 19/20/10/13/10/8, abilities and feats : Arterial Strike, Expertise, Hamstring, Power Attack, Alchemy=8 and Poisoned Weapon (usable with Claws coming from Vghotan's necklace) among others.

So I put Int=13 in order to get Expertise which might be useful in the future. I also reached 8 levels in Alchemy and got Poisoned Weapon feat. The third thing is inequal dual-class progression. After getting 3 levels as rogue, I'm planning to progress as monk up to level 21 then again as rogue up to level 10 (extending level caps).

Tc, Yigor

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:46 pm

Well, if you're requiring that the character be unarmed, a monk is the only choice. All other classes receive penalties for barehanded attacks.

You can only hit and run for so long.

What I dislike about multiclassing monks is that they lose the monk's special attack progression once they gain +1 BAB from another class.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:33 am

The 8 in CON sounds like an awful bad decision...

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:50 am

Aerich wrote:What I dislike about multiclassing monks is that they lose the monk's special attack progression once they gain +1 BAB from another class.

Are you sure ? Damn, they state that old order monk can multiclass to rogue without penalties. Do you think that a pure monk would be a better choice ? Maybe I'll try a duo then, 1 monk/rogue and 1 pure monk. It will permit me to compare them.

Tc, Yigor

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:56 am

GawainBS wrote:The 8 in CON sounds like an awful bad decision...

Well with hit'n'run tactics high Con is not necessary. If Str is not high enough, the game will quickly become boring on HoF. High Dex is also extremely useful in this playsetting, so I still think dats Dex=Str=20 is the best choice in the beginning.

Tc, Yigor

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:08 am

I still remain with dual-class monk/rogue. Even though BAB is calculated only from monk's level (it seems to be the only penalty), monk/rogue is funnier to play thanx to grand variety of barehanded special attacks!

My nun/rogue has now level 6/5, 67hp, AC=17 and stats 20/22/8/8/10/8. Damage at a sneak attack : 1d8+6+3d6=10-32, it's already cool.

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:58 pm

Xenia has now level 7/7 after completing Targos haven (~100,000XP on HoF +Undead Targos). I'm planning to install Tactics4IWD2 too if it's compatible with HoF. Let's check.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:08 pm

Well, if you use only your Monk BAB, I think you'll get into trouble with your to hit.
Also, I still feel that this low CON is a real defunct. With 14 CON & 16 STR & 20 DEX, you'd have at this lvl an extra 42 HP and you'd have - 1 AC and -2 damage, which can be compensated if you take Power Attack and use a dagger or short sword. (That way, you can still use finesse and you get both Monk & Rogue BAB added together. Also, I don't think you get To Hit bonuses from your fists, they only count as "+ X" for penetrating DR.)

Just my thought. Maybe I tend to think too much in P&P terms...

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:56 pm

Hey Gawain, thanx for the feedback!

Well, maybe U are right and low CON will hinder me later. So far, it's not so important on HoF, 40hp is just 1 tough hit by a goblin.

I guess, I wouldn't be able to make honest melees at least until monk's level 20. My idea was the full profit from wood elf stat modifications and I don't really wanna restart cuz some battles are quite tedious.

The challenge of this game is to play unarmed and without armor. Using Power Attack, I can switch between hit and damage bonuses. In sneak mode I hit almost always goblins and skeletons so I put +5 damage bonus and with +5 from STR, it's quite substantial.

Thanx again,
Yigor

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:31 pm

You're welcome and I wish you the best of luck!

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:22 am

GawainBS

Undead Targos Palisade battle : All defenders quickly died in the very beginning

and I remained with 3 dozens of senior undead. Those Senior Zombi and Drowns are almost immune to my current barehanded attacks (kinda 0-5hp per hit when they have ~500hp). So it was very tedious until I realised that I should beat only the 3rd remaining chief. That task turned out to be easy for my smart and swift character. So I've officially won the battle though there are still 2 dozens of senior undead wandering inside the palisade lol.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:06 am

I never played with that mod... Then again, this goes to show that DR is a bitch, and you probably need some other weapon to overcome it.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:53 pm

Yes, the DR will be a problem for this character, although sneak attack will help somewhat.

I dislike the low Con too. In addition to the HP factor, you will also be more vulnerable to spells requiring Fortitude saves.

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:19 am

Hey, Aerich and GawainBS!

Yeah, finally, I was not entirely satisfied with may char as well. I had some ideas to improve it. Here's my current character :

Xenia, F, strongheart halfling, nun/rogue, initial stats: 15/20/10/13/10/8. Current status : level 11/3, stas : 18/20/10/13/10/8, abilities and feats : Arterial Strike, Combat Expertise, Hamstring, Power Attack, Alchemy=8 and Poisoned Weapon (she's authorized to use a simple 1d4 dagger in order to use it) among others.

So I put Int=13 in order to get Combat Expertise which might be useful in the future. I also reached 8 levels in Alchemy and got Poisoned Weapon feat (I authorize her to use a simple 1d4 dagger in order to use it) . The third thing is inequal dual-class progression. After getting 3 levels as rogue, I'm planning to progress as monk up to level 21 then again as rogue up to level 10 (extending level caps).

What do U think ? Tc,
Yigor

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:28 am

I still think that CON is too low. I'd rather dump CHA all the way for some extra CON. Also, you might want to consider using better daggers, since you'll need the To-Hit bonuses those weapons provide. Also, install the bonus merchants, that will unlock a very useful item for you.

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:47 am

At the moment, I'm satisfied so I'll continue like that. Exclusively unarmed melee is the one of main challenges of this game so a simple 1d4 dagger will be the only exception. My alchemist needs to cut hallucinogen mushrooms and poison enemies.

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:35 pm

I agree with 13 Int in general. The 5 AC bonus from Expertise is considerable, especially for a high-AC character. However, I note you are losing significant potential AC points with a 10 Wis (18 Wis gains you 4 extra AC), which I suppose isn't such a big deal since you're on HoF anyway. It makes the character seem a little strange having a relatively low Wis and high Int for a monk. Are you or are you not going for a high AC? If yes, why not bump up Wis, and if no, why take 13 Int for Expertise when the stat points could be put into "better" stats?

Have you been putting your level-up stat points into Str, or did you mod/cheat your stats to get 18 Str with this character?

You want to make sure you get 20 levels as a monk, for the 20/ damage resistance.

If it were me and I weren't trying to roleplay, I'd dump Cha points too, since you rarely have to buy anything. You could use a bump to both Wis and Con. Don't forget, if this character gets frozen by a mind-affecting spell, it's dead meat.

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:26 am

Yeah, I could probably dump CHA and increase WIS by 4 points though I don't really wanna restart now only for this reason.

After all, it's maybe not so strange that a battle-oriented monk/alchemist has more INT than WIS.

I put 3 points in STR while progressing in levels, my monk/rogue has level 12/3 now.

Yeah, those ethereal ability and +20 damage reduction at levels 19 and 20 will boost my monk a lot as well as 1d20+6 base damage at level 21.

Enhanced Caballus and co. from Undead Targos mod complicated my life casting on me Berserker Rage and Ray of Enfeeblement. One time I waited more than 20 rounds (I had time to run away a bit after a sneak attack and hide but was affected by the Ray of Enfeeblement down to STR=-4 lol

).

Fortunately, monk gets some resistance to spells at level 13. There is an item in Targos giving the immunity to some mind-affecting spells but I don't have enough money yet.

Tc, Yigor

Tioma · Post by **Tioma** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:17 am

Wow, Vghotan's necklace gives me the ability to use 2d4 claws (and +4 STR bonus) instead of fists.

Those claws can be poisoned too

so I don't need a dagger anymore.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:51 am

Is it per the spell? Or a permanent effect?