Hi all, I am an old timer of the P&P V:TM and I must say I am quite pleased by the way the P&P system has been represented in this game (apart from the fact that I would really have liked presence giving you some dialogue options, it's primary uses are not combat in the P&P edition after all...), and because the developers have otherwise respected the original setting a lot, there was one thing that didn't seem to compute for me, namely, how on earth does the player character, a neonate of the standard generation for V:TM (between 11-13th)a couple of weeks old by the end of the game manage to get through all of this and max out his/her disciplines in such a short time!
Are there any theories out there about who the character's sire is or what generation the character is? The Tzimisce Andrei mentions twice that he can sense your blood being incredibly potent, but I somehow doubt how that loser of a vampire that apparently embraced you could have been of low enough generation and an elder, because a) he/she wouldn't have blundered by embracing without permission or b) if he/she did, he/she wouldn't have been captured and destroyed that easily. My theory at the moment is Spoiler
that your sire is possibly the cab-driver; he seems to be an old and powerful vampire, so his progeny would be also of strong blood, and and he does not obviously belong to any clan, so he could for plot purposes be interpreted as a "uni-clan" character, no matter what clan you chose. In my theory your apparent sire was a patsy, set up to be executed and probably mindwiped and conditioned with high enough Dominate so as to think that he/she actually did embrace you.
You raise quite some good points there... Spoiler: Spoiler
As far as I know, the theory was that the Cab-driver would be Cain himself. This wouldn't debunk your idea, though.
It all does seem a little "convenient" that a young fledgeling would be used, and expected to succeed, on these missions...
But apart from that, this is still a (C)RPG, so expect to grow powerful quickly.
On a side note: I was a bit disappointed that you got so few points at character creation, as opposed to PnP.
Thanks for the welcome and for your thoughts, mate!
Actually, yes, I am aware of the common theme of such games were a previously completely green and inexperienced character manages to pull off some amazing stunts (e.g. Half Life) and I probably would have left it at that, if it hadn't been for Andrei's remarks; those were the ones that made me think more about this possible plot, since they go unanswered. SPOILER:Spoiler
the visionary Thin Blood, Strauss and Ming Xiao also mention how teh character is special somehow, but they don't refer to it in technical terms as potency of the Blood, so that could be dismissed as the typical "Chosen One" thing, while Andrei's remarks are not of the same nature.
Also as for Caine being the cab driver and the character's sire, that would be fine, but then the character wouldn't belong to a clan, as Caine belongs to no clan himself.
The cab driver probably wasn't Caine but a Malkavian friend of Jack who thinks he is Caine (considering the info that Jack and his Malkavian friend exist in official books)
But I am not the one to account on the sources.
I actually liked the plot idea. It would make the chess e-mails even more fitting! I mean, it was all a setup game and you are the pawn. Not just any green fledgling that finds herself in everything but a pawn of the game, who was placed before the game begins..
..which even leads me that it could be.. Spoiler
prince that arranged everything. I mean, he did plot all the kuei-jin alliance, blood hunt on Nines and later the protagonist... Thinking of it, planning the murder of the Malkavian guy (couldn't remember his name, the one that Ming Xiao kills and Nines is framed) would make much sense if it was a plan made long ago. So only thing prince needed was a fledgling so he could start his contraption of intrigue. This can also explain how SUDDEN your "sire" (or, a setup sire) was caught nearly as soon as you were embraced. Prince surely would expect Nines to react when he would announce the fledglings execution as well. This way, it would seem like the prince changed his idea becouse of Nines, but actually, it was all planned before so that LaCroix doesn't draw attention. (of course, if this is the case, the sire should be one that is loyal to Prince. well actually the sire was prolly someone prince was looking forward to take out from the game)
Wee. Pardon me if I made some grammar or structure errors up there, my mind isn't tidy and usually so aren't my posts. I hope I was clear enough.
Such as I you've never seen,
Clever comely and overly keen!
themaelstorm wrote:In another subject it was told that : Spoiler
The cab driver probably wasn't Caine but a Malkavian friend of Jack who thinks he is Caine (considering the info that Jack and his Malkavian friend exist in official books)
But I am not the one to account on the sources.
I actually liked the plot idea. It would make the chess e-mails even more fitting! I mean, it was all a setup game and you are the pawn. Not just any green fledgling that finds herself in everything but a pawn of the game, who was placed before the game begins..
..which even leads me that it could be.. Spoiler
prince that arranged everything. I mean, he did plot all the kuei-jin alliance, blood hunt on Nines and later the protagonist... Thinking of it, planning the murder of the Malkavian guy (couldn't remember his name, the one that Ming Xiao kills and Nines is framed) would make much sense if it was a plan made long ago. So only thing prince needed was a fledgling so he could start his contraption of intrigue. This can also explain how SUDDEN your "sire" (or, a setup sire) was caught nearly as soon as you were embraced. Prince surely would expect Nines to react when he would announce the fledglings execution as well. This way, it would seem like the prince changed his idea becouse of Nines, but actually, it was all planned before so that LaCroix doesn't draw attention. (of course, if this is the case, the sire should be one that is loyal to Prince. well actually the sire was prolly someone prince was looking forward to take out from the game)
Wee. Pardon me if I made some grammar or structure errors up there, my mind isn't tidy and usually so aren't my posts. I hope I was clear enough.
SPOILER Spoiler
It I don't think LaCroix planned the whole thing, but he was an opportunist. I think he sent you to blow up the warehouse in order to kill you, but since you pulled it off, he saw potential and started using you.
I think it's possible that Jack and his friend planned the whole thing to kill LaCroix.
You can't spell success without whatever the hell my name is!
I think it's possible that Jack and his friend planned the whole thing to kill LaCroix.
This is obvious in my opinion: in the epilogue Jack says to the Taxi Driver: "Hey, it happened just like you said. They never even knew what hit 'em." and follows this up with another unused sentence I restored in the unoffcial patches: "Threw that sarcophagus out there and they just tore each other up tryin' to get to it." This would imply that they not only used it to attack the prince but also wanted to weaken every faction that was too powerhungry.
I played VM:B quite a while ago, so i dont exactly remember who ruled before LaCroix and was it ruled at all. Again i think that Jack and the cab driver are the one's pulling most of the strings Spoiler
due to Jack having the "antedeluvian" at the end (well for some of the endings), it is not the prince because he blows up. So must be Jack, or Nines for that matter because he tries to get killed a lot but if your sire was pretty powerful, why did no one care that much about his execution. What if it was all a setup: and your sire was someone else, and the person who got killed was some pawn, like you. That way your real sire can use you however he wants...:speech:
Perhaps I am making too fine a point here, possibly one the developers never thought about (or did they?), but I wanted to point out that, in case you play as a Malkavian, Camarilla Malkavians don't have Dementation as a clan discipline, they have Dominate instead. Dementation used to be a clan discipline for the Malkavians before the time the Camarilla was forged and the Masquerade more systematically enforced. Sabbat Malkavians still have it as a clan discipline though and obviously elders of the clan, predating the Camarilla, as well. Could the fact that your Malkavian starts with it indicate that your sire is an elder of unknown affiliation?
Spoiler: Spoiler
I know that there are some clues in game that the cabbie is Caine, but somehow I cannot accept that the developers showing so much respect for the P&P setting otherwise would have done something like involving Caine in such a minor plotline. Seriously, to anyone who has even a passing knowledge of the V:TM mythos, the fact that Caine would collaborate with a 10th generation Brujah (Jack) to bring down LaCroix, a prince too young to even be considered an elder, is preposterous. If Caine wanted LaCroix out of the picture he would have made him vanish with a thought and probably make the world forget that he ever existed (Obfuscate 10 can do that nicely). Caine has virtually godlike powers, there is no need for him to plot, he has no need of pawns, if he wants it, it happens, it's that simple.
Perhaps Caine plotted, with Jack as his pawn, to bring his future pawn, the player, in a better position? Perhaps it was as much a plot as it was a test?
Unless the character is supposed to have some huge role in the future shaping of the universe by his/her mere existence, and Caine knows about this through some whacky power like Auspex 10 or whatever he has, I really don't see why such a being would ever even so much as lift a finger to get involved in testing a pawn or anything really. But then again, all we do is speculate here, so why not this.
Tiberius wrote:Perhaps I am making too fine a point here, possibly one the developers never thought about (or did they?), but I wanted to point out that, in case you play as a Malkavian, Camarilla Malkavians don't have Dementation as a clan discipline, they have Dominate instead. Dementation used to be a clan discipline for the Malkavians before the time the Camarilla was forged and the Masquerade more systematically enforced. Sabbat Malkavians still have it as a clan discipline though and obviously elders of the clan, predating the Camarilla, as well. Could the fact that your Malkavian starts with it indicate that your sire is an elder of unknown affiliation?
Actually, that part was changed with the revised edition of V:tM. Dementation is a clan disciplin for the Camarilla Malkavians too in the Core Rulebook now (or rather it was, since V:tM has met Final Death at the hands of Requieme )
Couldn't help answering even after some time have gone since the last post. Oh well, it isn't even a year since the last post, at least...
Deus Vult!
prof. Moriarty
"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness" - Terry Pratchett
What im going to say can be reeeally stupid but im going to say it anyway, maybe the character sire was a Anarch, and Nines stand up in the court room to save him because of his sire, dont know.
Have a nice day
"By The Clack-Smack Cracking Of My Thumbs Something Wicked This Way Comes"
