Boots of Speed: Extra Attack?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:49 pm

I have read somewhere that the Boots of Speed, on top of movement, grant you an extra attack per round. While I do not think it shows on the character sheet, can anyone confirm or disclaim it?

Ha-Nocri · Post by **Ha-Nocri** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:02 pm

Well, they are giving 1/2 of an attack per round to my main character. from 5/2 to 3 while improved haste spell gives double the basic number of attacks (w/t boots of speed or any other spell/equipment that affects movement). Example, is a character has basic 2 attacks per round... with Boots of Speed on and Improved Haste spell casted s/he will have 4 attacks/round.

Dummy · Post by **Dummy** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:21 pm

improved haste doubles the attacks from 2 to 4 ....

usually haste just changes your speedfactor

and boots of speed just changes your movement speed but i cant say how they implimentet it into the game :/

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:07 am

Boots of Speed in the un-modded game only increase movement speed, they don't affect attacks per round. If anyone has a pair of boots that increase the number of attacks, they must be the result of a mod or tweak. I just checked the .itm files using IEE, there are four different item files for boots of speed, none of them affect anything but movement.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:12 am

Actually, in the un-patched game (original from the CD's), the boots of speed were not very well implemented, and gave the effect of the haste spell, meaning doubling movement rate *and* gave an extra attack (or half an attack, can't recall). However, they also did something with your animation which meant that you effectively only got 1 attack per round regardless of what your character sheet read.
Hence they were corrected by some patch, so they only have an effect on movement, as per the original intention.

Remove the BOOT01.ITM file from your override folder (but save it somewhere!) to test it out..

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:08 am

The .itm files I checked were the originals (extracted but with ToB and patches), so they aren't in my override, so unfortunately I can't check the real (unpatched SoA) originals.

Edit: Curiously after reading your last post Silvanerian I checked the BG1 Boot01.itm file, and that only modifies movement, so it would seem that Bioware introduced a bug in SoA, then corrected it.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:47 am

Yes the original boots of speed were messed up.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:08 am

The Boots of Speed your character can wear in the game are BOOT01.ITM, not the other versions. In the original version of Shadows of Amn with the latest patch, Boots of Speed endowed the user with an effect called "Haste". This appears to be the same effect that is granted by the Haste spell, which grants the recipient an extra attact per round, according to the spell description. However, if you install Throne of Bhaal with the latest patch, it adds a new BOOT01.ITM file to the /OVERRIDE directory, which uses a different resource key. We can conclude that the Boots of Speed in SOA are different from the Boots of Speed in TOB.

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but this is the Shadows of Amn forum, not the Throne of Bhaal forum. I realize that most people who play Shadows of Amn these days have Throne of Bhaal installed. But I think if we're going to assume that most people have TOB installed, we still need to make it clear which version of the game we're discussing, since there are differences between them. It tends to be very confusing.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:30 am

So they do not grant an extra attack if you have ToB installed? I assumed this thread belonged in the SoA forum as that's the game version in which you find the original pair.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:50 am

Mind you though, that the boots were 'messed up' as Bruce Lee puts it, meaning that they were seriously bugged which affected your character's performance negatively. Do not expect to get a pair of boots of speed which act as the ones you know but also grants an extra attack, as you would otherwise be disappointed.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:54 am

Silvanerian wrote:Mind you though, that the boots were 'messed up' as Bruce Lee puts it, meaning that they were seriously bugged which affected your character's performance negatively. Do not expect to get a pair of boots of speed which act as the ones you know but also grants an extra attack, as you would otherwise be disappointed.

It's also questionable that Bioware would have intentionally allowed your party to get so many of them, as you can later in the game, if they were meant to provide attack as well as movement benefits. Both together, furnished in quantity, would have been a pungent cheesemaker, indeed.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:11 am

There are three different 'Haste type' settings, 0 for normal Haste, 1 for Improved Haste and 2 for Haste without additional attacks. The setting in Boots01.itm is type 2.

As for ToB/SoA, like many people I've only ever played with both installed, I got the two bundled together with the extra merchant(s) and Cheese (Shield) of Balduran. Not sure if that was the Goty version, it was so long ago I've forgotten. To me they are effectively the same game.

Ha-Nocri · Post by **Ha-Nocri** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:56 am

Well, I have SoA + ToB installed with latest patches. Boots of speed gives my main character 1/2 attack. I am still playing SoA.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:05 am

Ha-Nocri: I highly doubt that, as your boots would then be the only ones who have this extra effect with ToB+patch..
Are you sure you are reading your character sheet correctly, and you are not runnning any mods that might have changed the boots?

Galraen: when you looked through the spell files, did you see anything regarding the regular haste spell? I have noticed that my characters are not getting their correct number of attacks when I use regular haste or an oil of speed. I suspect it is the animation that gets confused, because that gets doubled (velocity and number of "swings"), whereas the number of attacks only gets increase by 1. (For reference, I have no mod installed which does anything to the haste spell)
Anyway, thought it weird, and I don't use either because of this, however it's a nice buff in the early game to miss out on..

On the "off topic", I agree with Fable, that it most likely wasn't the intend of the developers to have such powerful items in abundance. (2 in SoA and another 2 in ToB if I recall correctly)
Further, numbers of attacks would depend on speed/flexibility of your arm, not so much that of your feet. If they wanted such items in the game, suppose they would have made more gauntlets with number of attack bonuses.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:48 am

I think however that in 2nd edition d&d boots of speed do effect the wearer with a permanent haste spell.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:22 am

Silvanerian wrote:Galraen: when you looked through the spell files, did you see anything regarding the regular haste spell? I have noticed that my characters are not getting their correct number of attacks when I use regular haste or an oil of speed. I suspect it is the animation that gets confused, because that gets doubled (velocity and number of "swings"), whereas the number of attacks only gets increase by 1.

Firstly, for clarification, there are two potions called Oil of Speed, the white bottle, and the multi-coloured one. The latter is in fact cursed and feebleminds you, but I expect you knew that.

Haste in 2nd edition AD&D only gives one extra attack; in 1st Edition IIRC it doubled the number of attacks, but also aged you a year (or Demi-Human equivalent, 5 yearsa I think for elves, but it's a long time ago). With the arrival of Improved Haste in 2nd Edition things were changed.

As for the animation, the number of swings the paper doll makes rarely actually corresponds to the number of actual attacks in my experience. If you set the game to pause at the end of every round, then check how many attacks were actually made (painful process) it leaves one with more questions than answers!

@ Bruce Lee. The effects of Boots of Speed have always been a subject of debate in the PnP game as I recall. Not just whether one gets the extra attacks, but also how one interprets the Armour Class bonus. I recall a few heated arguments on those issues, finally decided of course by the DM's ruling. In this instance I guess the DM is Bioware, so we have to abide by their decision, unless we hack into the game files to over-rule them. :mischief:

We can always moan and complain on boards like this, I suspect many think I do it far too often, guilty as charged, with apologies all round.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:27 am

@Galrean: Yep, remember the aging - cruel way to kill a person with or without them knowing, heheh.

As for the animations and haste: Regular speed gives 5 swings per round (also max # attack per round is 5 - 1 per swing), so if you have 3 attacks per round it is only 3 of those 5 that are actually real 'swings' which roll 'to hit'.
Hasting doubles the animation to 10 swings per round, but only yields 1 extra attack, which is where I suspect the game to malfunction a bit, as instead, I seem only to get 2 attacks when 'hasted', instead of the actual 4,5 or how many that particular character were to receive.

Improved haste works fine though.

Anyways, haste is for sissies ;p

Ha-Nocri · Post by **Ha-Nocri** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:59 am

Silvanerian wrote:Ha-Nocri: I highly doubt that, as your boots would then be the only ones who have this extra effect with ToB+patch..
Are you sure you are reading your character sheet correctly, and you are not runnning any mods that might have changed the boots?

Well, trust me, I am reading it right since I played BG/BG2, IWD/IWD2, NWN/NWN2. No mods except extra merchants. And ToB + patch installed. I don't know why I get 1/2 extra attack, but I do. From 5/2 to 3

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:10 pm

Ha-Nocri wrote:Well, trust me, I am reading it right since I played BG/BG2, IWD/IWD2, NWN/NWN2. No mods except extra merchants. And ToB + patch installed. I don't know why I get 1/2 extra attack, but I do. From 5/2 to 3

No weapon in the off hand?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:35 pm

My results agree with those of Ha-Nocri. I tested it on a 13 Berserker/38 cleric, five points in warhammers and three in two weapon style. He was wielding Rune Hammer +5 in the mainhand and Crom Fayer in the offhand. Here's the interesting thing.

With the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, he gets four attacks per round. If I take them off he gets three and a half. Now, if I put the Boots of Speed on him while the gauntlets are OFF, his attacks per round increase to four. If I have him wearing the gauntlets AND the boots, the number of attacks still stays at four.

I have no mods and the latest patch running.