Recommend magic char for solo play

[Frodo1]

[QUOTE=goldenwarrior69]

Frodo1, I never thought about sacrificing Thief Skills. Exactly how do you open your chests? Do you use the Bash option? If so, how does that work?

GW[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the kind words. Honestly, your positive posts and information about what's right with 1.4 kept me from possibly unloading the game after my last bug experience that I noted in another thread.

The way I am able to skip thieving completely is to play up to level 6 before entering the sewers. I just stand on the porches of the 2 shacks and hack away at all comers.

I use strength to bash open chests and to open that one locked door. I found that you need to get strength up to level 35 or higher to manage low level chests in the sewers. I think that I push the skill up towards 40 to improve the possibilities on the level 4 chests. By the time I reach 70 strength I can open that level 8 chest in dragon country. I have 64% chance at of opening an 8th level chest with at a strength of 70. It is a very reliable action with skill at higher levels and it's a lot easier than disarming traps.

The downside early is that you have to take damage every time you open a chest. Having excess potions makes that not a problem at all. The problem is that I have to do the sewers and theatre in my skivvy's cause my light armor will quickly degrade and dissapear.

Pumping up strength like this has been easy for me since I'm using Urgoth's lately. I think it could be done with any character though, since I have to use a lot of points to build up intelligence at the same time. It would be the reverse process for a female elf for instance.

One of the odd things I have found doing this is that I can bash open the locked door in the sewers and that I don't have to worry about the lock jamming if I fail the first time. Save of course, before trying it.

Edit: inaccurate numbers corrected

[goldenwarrior69]

Earlier Post by goldenwarrior69

Quote:
...Like you, I use my experience points wisely, especially early in the game, however, I never thought about sacrificing Thief Skills. Exactly how do you open your chests? Do you use the Bash option? If so, how does that work?

This is the second time that I actually asked anyone gaming advice since I've been posting on this site. I have to thank you Frodo1, for your answer. This is the best game tactic that I have learned from someone else in this forum.

I immediately loaded up one of my chars with over 80 strength and bashed open my first chest. Hey Ferncliff, it works great! I just assumed that bash not working was just another bug, after I tried to bash open chests a few times when I first started playing the game. I am so happy now that I can apply the significant amount of saved exp points elsewhere, and eliminate the tedium of disarming chests, especially in the latter part of the game. I always build high strength in my chars anyway, as I try to wear Death Armor fairly early in the game, so I was just wasting alot of exp points on Thief skills. Thanks man!

I just started a new char, Egwene, a Female Elf Mage. She is my first female char, and I am looking forward to trying out her spellcasting possibilities. I see what you mean about the armor melting away...although its kinda fun to see her in her bra and panties... :mischief:

Anyway, I have her up to level 5, with 22 strength and 21 intelligence, and will enter the sewers when I reach 30 strength...

GW

[Gaal Dornik]

Comparing Arcane and Celestial magic it appears for me that C. is vastly superior.

Arcane magic offers damage, damage and some more damage, and nothing more. Mostly fire and ice, with some stun effects sometimes. Which
a. can be resisted
b. nothing a sword cant do

Celestial magic offers a very high variety of different spells, excellent to have for everyone. Healing, summons, scouting, thieving, water-breathing, damage, protection, buffing, boni vs unnatural creatures. And sure as hell you want them to last longer and be more powerful. Moderately damaging spell(s) is also included, dealing uncommon magic or lightning damage. Also you dont need to micromanage potions. Not to forget that most spells are available early on. All in one, celestial magic offers a powerful and highly flexible game.

Nether magic is kinda cumbersome to use(never used it, so dont know) and contains mostly summons(..) and foes affecting spells, if you can find the ingredients that is. The problem is, monsters will not wait 'till you casted all these spells on them

What good is arcane magic if you are being fried up by a fire drake. As for healing animations, potion drinking has an animation too, both are pretty very short with a high speed anyway.

[swcarter]

[QUOTE=Gaal Dornik]What good is arcane magic if you are being fried up by a fire drake.[/QUOTE]
If you have the "cataclysm" spell, then you're not going to get fried by a fire drake. The fire drake is going to die in about five seconds.

SWC

[Gaal Dornik]

swcarter
Just yesterday killed one with celestial spells Ward of Fire(lvl4) and Divine Strike(lvl6). And a decent weapon ofc. In a game i just explored Skuldoon ( got a nice mace there. ). Plain default thing, no uber. (Actually i dont know, since i havent completed a game yet )

Ward of Fire made me nearly immune vs his attacks, doh. And Divine Strike seems to work vs many creatures strangely, and increases damage by about 50% (went from avg. 20 to 30 dmg points per strike).

It was certainly not 5 secs, but not a threat either. With 3 low level celestial spells. 2 lvl4 and 1 lvl6 plz. And what can arcane magic offer at that level.

[kromm_71]

[QUOTE=arbiter]It's tough playing as a magic user all by my lonesome

Can anyone recommend a build that has a chance of survival?[/QUOTE]


Here's my breakdown of things. This is my first crack at DL. I'm playing 1.4. I love magic users but I heard the game is morrowindish in that magic users are underpowered which, btw I don't agree. And I don't expect a d&d sorc that can solo against dragons and demi-liches.

If you want info on a power char, I don't have the exp to give advice. Note that I play my char as a f/m. I melee Well and sling spells.

I have a lvl 10 solo elf female mage/sorceror. The starter dungeon was tough--can't fight, and spell power is lousy, but that is expected. All magic users start crpg's really weak. Bows are useful for low lvl mag chars.

Officially, my char is a sorc, but I've defacto delevoped a f/m/t. I pump arcane magic, followed by magic weapon, moderate thief skills, armor. Magic weapon is unique to only a few classes, so I consider it still magic use.

Pump athletics so you can roll and cast, flip and hit. Money is not a problem (not using money workarounds). Buy spellbooks. My lvl 10 has 20 shrieking star, 15 fb, 4 bn, 25 mm among others and still 30,000 gp to spare. Gold farming in the bolen fields yields alot of magus staffs and grim shields--mule these to town. 2 staffs lets you buy a fb spell. One tour through the fields and you should be able to buy several spellbooks. I imagine if I did this for a couple of hours, I could double my spell charges. If this is old hat to you, I'm sorry but it's new for me.

Don't forget that a single shrieking star with arcane 9 devastates lesser opponents and seriously hurts moderate enemies. I melee alot and my nether staff deals out 10 - 20 damage--it is enough...for now. I sport medium armor. My dex and agil is at 50+. If I wanted to be a pure spell slinger, I would develop nether skills and alchemy.

As in Diablo 2, any magic user in a small locked room with a boss is in trouble. Anyone here remember Act II, fighting with a solo sorc against Duriel? The only time I nearly got stuck was my lvl 5 or 6 against the final elder trial. That took me 4 hours to do-first killing the boss with my bow, and 40 potions against the spawns.

Otherwise I'm having no trouble. I always remain flexible--I keep 100,000 adv points in reserve. If i bog down, I have 2 class spec open (i'm questing for wizard), I can turnaround and quest for a fighter type class. I keep pumping my agil making me faster. Note on flexibility: I only spend points when there's something I want to use or I bog down. If I can deal with 2 moonbeasts or dispatch a troll giant with ease, my char is fine.

My fighting style: sling a couple of spells, charge in (I always get 3 hits in first), flip out, turn and roll to the side, shrieking star to push back flanking enemies, enter the gap created, cast nova, flip out. It doesn't take long and I don't get hit very often. I find the style works in tight places too.

To play without melee, I don't see it. I would be out of spells after a couple of battles. Magic here doesn't have the firepower like in d&d.

I hope this helps. Your post said you were looking for survival in the game. I'm finding that as the monsters get tougher, I get more points to spend on agil and dex allowing me to keep up. For an elf, agil is not expensive and when monsters are routinely delivering 2000 points, it only takes a few to add agil--and I'm killing them by the score. Fortunetely str is not important in melee. Maybe in the demigoth lands I'll run into trouble, but then I have a large point reserve that lets me redirect my char development.

Worst case: farm the moonbeasts to get the points necessary for str and go for heavy armor, farm the bolen fields for the gold to stock up on spells. These 2 areas can be a quick easy fix for any mispent points or money.

Remember I'm using my agil and relying on being faster than my enemies. I use several save games in case I get screwed in a dungeon. I hoard scrolls so I can unleash a terrible amount of firepower in a confined space.

kromm

[dlowrey]

[QUOTE=kromm_71]Bows are useful for low lvl mag chars

kromm[/QUOTE]
Great writeup Kromm.

Even with a fighter, I save by the first chest and keep opening it till I get a bow. It REALLY helps with the poison spewing slimes in the sewers....

[kromm_71]

Thanks, Dlowrey ,

I agree, bows are almost indespensible for early chars. It allows a char to deal out at least some damage from a relatively safe distance and to "return the favor" to ranged equip monsters.

kromm

[chamr]

I've just started a pure mage character. I took the Goblin Staff from the goblin mage sitting on the porch of one of the sheds in the opening northern woods. 1 point in lt pole, 1 pt in magic weaponry and whamo! I'm whuppin butt. Killing things more easily than I did with previous rogue and fighter characters, at least for now...

P.S. this is CE, by the way.

[Scottg]

[QUOTE=Frodo1]
..the following advantages:
1) Access to heavy weapons, armor, and shields with more than adequate learning bonuses to use any shield or weapon and wear Deathlord’s armor.
2) The learning bonuses in Arcane magic, by far and away the most powerful and effective offensive magic type. Plus, 2 learning bonuses in Nether magic, the most varied magic type and the second most powerful.
With this set of classes you’ll be an awesome fighter in addition to the most powerful mage possible, at least for a male.

Best female caster is a Mage-Fighter-Sorcerer-Valkyrie-War Witch. This is an even more powerful character than the above. War Witch is the most powerful caster class by far. It offers:
1) 3 learning bonuses of Arcane, 2 of Nether, 2 of Rune, and 1 of Celestial. Nuff said.
2) In addition to the above, it offers the same benefits for armor, shields, and weapons, with the addition of adding heavy pole arms to your arsenal.

My take on all this is that you need to melee often no matter how you set up a magic caster. It’s just a necessity. Having fighter instead of Adept allows you to max powerful magic classes and get just enough bonuses for the other stuff to be viable. A second point is who would want to basically throw away a Deathlord’s Plate, the Shield of the Dragon, or an awesome heavy weapon because you couldn’t possibly reach the requirements for equipping it without a massive penalty?

[/QUOTE]

I realize this is an older thread and post, but after reading numerous threads here this is one of the better ones (perhaps the best) I've seen on character creation for this game.

I have a few questions with regard to the logic here (and some interaction with the CE version). (Note that I haven't even started playing the game yet - But of course I want to plan an excellent character before playing, so please bear this in mind with regard to my novice questioning.)

Ok then, I like the idea of better magic than melee capability (say 65%magic/35%melee). ..And of course I want the best build possible to meet this paramater.

From various posts I've surmised (correctly or not) the following:

Magic Generally:

1. *casted* magic is weak early in the game, both in power and more importantly frequency (i.e. multiple spells).
2. as the game progresses *casted* magic is particularly usefull for eliminating large groups/enemy "swarms".
3. *casted* magic and high level opponents AND tight spots can be difficult, strongly suggesting the need for melee capability.
5. non-casted magic via many magic weapons overcomes the "frequency" limitation and scales in power with the magic user's class/discipline and skill as long as the magic user meets the prerequisites for that weapon (Magic Weapon skill), AND the weapon's effect is based on the magic user's discipline and skill (..i.e. an arcane weapon effect is *only* increased in power with an arcane specific discipline class level and/or increasing skill ability in the arcane discipline - not with say the nether discipline).

Classes, Tiers, Leaning Bonuses, Skills, Heraldrys, and Prerequisites generally:

1. The greater number of classes in a specific discipline, the stronger that discipline will be all else equal. (i.e. a character with a mage class and a battle mage class will be stronger in either arcane or nether magic than a character with just the mage class and other non-arcane/nether classes.)
2. The higher the class Tier in a specific discipline, the stronger that discipline will be all else equal. (i.e. a character with a mage class and the tier 2 battle mage class will be stronger in arcane AND nether magic, despite NOT having a learning bonus in nether magic, than simply a mage class character.)
3. The higher the skill points in a discipline, the stronger that discipline will be all else equal.
4. The higher the class Tier in specific discipline, the easier it will be to increase skills in that discipline (..though learning bonuses have more impact).
5. The more learing bonuses for a skill, the easier it is to increase that skill.
6. Learning bonuses are *extremely important* and are class specific, so choose your classes carefully to maximise their number in skills you deem important.
7. Certain skills are only available to certain classes, this is particularly important with regard to prerequisits. (i.e. the WarWitch class not only requires a female (and a second tier sisterhood class), but also requires skill points in Heavy Weapons, Heavy Armor, and Heavy Shields - all of which are available to only a few classes.) Note that this is NOT the case for earlier versions of the game (i.e. before 1.4).
8. Heraldry's can offer some substantial bonuses - and should be HEAVILY factored into character planning. Note again, this is NOT the case for earlier versions of the game (i.e. before 1.4). Additionally, there is a maximum of 10 Heraldry's in the game, if an eleventh heraldry is gained it will replace the 10th Heraldry.
________________________________________

1st question: Are these assumptions correct?
________________________________________

With the above information (assuming its correct), planning a character (as desired: excellent magic 65% and melee 35%) suggests the following:

1. The desire for varied magic ability suggests having access AND stregth/power in all 4 magic disciplines (i.e. Arcane, Nether, Celestial, and Rune).
2. To obtain strength/power in each discipline, numerous class Tiers and Learning Bonuses are neccesary that complement each discipline.
3. The requirement from number 2 suggests magic oriented classes at the expense of melee oriented classes IF required.
4. Melee ability must be compensated for, AND that compensation must be appropriate as the character develops.
5. The requirement of number 4 suggests several things: A. that melee capability can be augmented via magic weapons and magic augmentation and defenses; B. that armor can be augmented via magic defenses; C. that mixed classes should be chosen with melee specific learning bonuses; D. that "timing" these is important for an efficient and effective character at any stage of the game.

The *best* method to plan charcter development is to start with where you want to end-up.. i.e. a "top-down" view (or which tier 3 class?).

So from a "top down" look at character creation.. the best tier 3 class to meet the requirements of #1 above is the War Witch.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... rwitch.php

It is the ONLY magic class with all 4 disciplines of study, additionally it also has emphasis on melee capability. Of course with such a multi-disciplined character it will be more difficult to optimize, and as a result more difficult to play for at least the first half of the game. With that in mind, which classes will augment this final class AND allow for a less difficult "first half of the game"?

Well first of all there is the issue of prerequisites for the War Witch (and in particular the "sticking" points):
A. Must be a female Character
B. Must have a second Tier Sisterhood class: (Valkyrie or Enchantress)
C. Must have the difficult to obtain skills: (Heavy Weapon, Heavy Armor, Heavy Shield)

For "A" there are only two solutions Human Female or Elf Female - and I'm not sure which will be better for this build.. so:
________________________________

Second question: which female is better and why when considering all aspects of the character build?
________________________________

For "C" we have ONLY these choices: (Paladin, Knight, Battlemage, Valkyrie)
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... aladin.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... knight.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... lemage.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... lkyrie.php

To fully assess the development path of the character we need to consider cumulative classes, learning bonuses, and available Heraldrys when looking at these 4 classes in relation to other class options. This is what Frodo1 did above - and where I question the build he had given (i.e. "Mage-Fighter-Sorcerer-Valkyrie-War Witch") - and not incidentally where others questioned it as well.

OK then.. all of these Tier 2 classes have these attributes in common:
A. Learning Bonuses: Armor Skills & Shield Skills
B. New Skills: Heavy Armor, Heavy Shields, Heavy Weapons

The Learning Bonus differences for each class are:
Paladin: Basic Weapon Skills, Parry, Rune Magic
Knight: Basic Weapon Skills
Battlemage: Arcane Magic, Magic Weaponry, Repair
Valkyrie: Pole Weapon Skills, Rune Magic, Weapons Skills

The New Skills differences for each class are:
Paladin:Channel
Knight: -nada-
Battlemage: Scribe
Valkryie: Heavy Poles

Just looking at the Learning Bonus differences I notice that Knight gets "hosed". That the other 3 have some form of Magic bonus: 2 Runes and 1 Arcane - which is of paramount importance over any melee bonus. Therefor the selection will be from one of the 3 classes (Paladin, Battlemage, or Valkyrie) with a magic learning bonus.

[Scottg]

continued..

Looking at the Skill differences requires looking at our final Tier 3 War Witch class, AND looking at other Tier 2 classes that might have the same skills. Now the War Witch has Channel and Scribe, additionally several other possible magic secondary Tier 2 classes (Celestial, Monk, Sorcerer, Shugenia and Enchantress), also have one or the other skill (..or in the case of the Enchantress - both). Furthermore to obtain either channel or scribe does NOT require ANY class but Adept and Mage respectivly (i.e. its an "open" skill if you have the required base class). Now Heavy Poles is NOT an "open" skill - it specifically requires a 2nd Tier class, and just looking at skills here, this tends to favor the *Valkyrie* over the Paladin or Battlemage.

The Heavy Pole skill could be very important to someone desiring the use of Heavy Poles for latter in the game - the upside is higher damage, several different varieties with different magical properties, and a better "reach", the downside is that several require higher strength which might otherwise be used for others attributes.

Now lets go back and look at the Learning Bonus differences again between the 3 acceptable classes (Paladin, Battlemage, Valkyrie). The Paladin and Valkyrie are very similar, the Battlemage is somewhat different. Both the Paladin and Valkyrie have Rune Magic, the Battlemage has Arcane Magic. Essentially then we should pick a non-Rune Magic based Tier 2 *2nd* class IF we choose either the Paladin or the Valkyrie. IF however we decide on the Battlemage then we should have a non-Arcane Magic based Tier 2 *2nd* class.


Furthermore IF we choose either the Paladin or the Battlemage then our other Tier 2 class *must* be the Enchantress (..to fulfill a Sisterhood class requirement). IF we choose the Valkyrie then our limitation is only that we cannot choose the Enchantress as our 2nd Tier 2 class. So with that in mind lets look at the Enchantress:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... ntress.php

Learning Bonuses are: Arcane Magic, Celestial Magic, Thief Skills.
New skills are: Channel, Identify, Scribe

Again remembering that we want ALL 4 Magic disciplines covered well - this rules out the Battlemage-Enchantress option. The reason is that only 1 learning bonus will be given to Rune Magic AND Nether Magic, AND those bonuses won't be available until late in the game when War Witch is achieved. Moreover, the Paladin-Enchantress route is also limiting (though not as bad) - this class combination will only allow for 1 Learning Bonus in Nether Magic (..again later in the game when War Witch is achieved).

By default then, one of the Tier 2 classes should be the *VALKYRIE*.

Additionally, the *2nd* Tier 2 class should have *2* magic Learning Bonuses, and neither should be Rune Magic. (..nor can the class be the Enchantress.) ONLY the Sorcerer and the Shugenja meet these requirements:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... rcerer.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... ugenja.php

The only difference between the 2 classes is that the Sorcerer has a learning bonus in Magic Weapons vs. the Shugenja with access to the Diabolic Skill Nijitsu. The Shugenja gives a skill that while "cool", does NOT comport with our build - in that hand-to-hand combat does not have a magic effect that a magic weapon would have. So the Sorcerer appears better so far.

Then we need to look at Heraldrys between the "magic guild" and the "eastern houses":
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords/heraldry.php

Frankly there are good choices from both, and I think you could really go either way here. The only reason I would favor the Sorcerer over the Shugenja is if the Skill "Magic Weapons" was particularly difficult to uprgrade in the time you would receive a particular value of magic weapon in-game. This leads me to my next question:
___________________________________

Third question: how difficult is it to increase the skill "magic weapon" relative to achieving a particular weapon in-game?
___________________________________

Finally then we consider our 2 base classes.

One of them *MUST* be the Mage. This is required to obtain our 2nd Tier 2 class of either Sorcerer or Shugenja.

The other base class then would be Adept, Fighter, or Rouge.

Now HALF of the Rogue skills are NOT class restricted:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords/thiefskills.php
The ones that are (Sneak, Steal, and Backstab) really provide little benefit even in melee combat except that they could have value with Nether magic and "summons" generally. (Furthermore "Backstab" isn't even available at the Rogue level.) IMO then this is not only a wasted base class for our purposes, but a wasted class group in general.

This then leaves the Adept or the Fighter..
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... /adept.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... ighter.php

Learing Bonuses are:
Adept: Armor Skills, Celestial Magic
Fighter: Armor Skills, Basic Weapons skills, Shield Skills
Skills are:
Adept: Magic Weapon
Fighter: -nada-

IF we favor the Fighter over the Adept as Frodo1 suggests then we are effectivly discounting Celestial magic until War Witch, and even then we will have only the one Learning Bonus instead of 2 in Celestial. He mentions that the only reason to favor this class early-on is for healing, and that he states is taken care of by numerous heal potions.
The Celstial Spell listing is here:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... lmagic.php

Now I "track" what he is saying with regard to healing, however the 2nd level Divine Radience seems to offer a serious alternative to some combat prowess AND its at a level that is still within "reach" fairly early in the game. Sure - its defensive as opposed to offensive. Furthermore most of the 3rd levels spells seem quite usefull and have nothing to do with healing.

So then, what would we be "giving-up"?:

We must base this on the lack of the Fighter Learning Bonuses: (Basic Weapon Skills and Shield Skills):

http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... skills.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... skills.php

Basic Weapons Skills include: Archery, Light Weapons, and Thrown Weapons.
Shield skills seem to compromise at LEAST light shields, and perhaps medium shields as well.. Given the class limitations on Heavy Shields I don't think there is a bonus for it as well.

This means we give up:
1. More rapid advancement to light weapons level 3.
2. The ability of more rapid advancement for light weapons beyond level 3.. but how likely is it that you'll want to use a light weapon latter in the game?
3. More rapid advancement of light and possibly medium shields UNTIL you achive Valkyrie class (where you will receive a Learning Bonus in Shields).

Perhpas then only the 3 skill points in the light weapon progression is "slowing down" your asscension to the Valkyrie class. This raises another question:
____________________________________

Fourth question: How much does the Fighter class, beyond the learning bonuses, "speed up" the process of learning weapon skills needed for the Valkyrie class?

also,

Fifth question(s): Does the Fighter class "speed up" the process of learning armor skills more than an Adept? (..and if so how much?)
____________________________________

If the answer is "not much", then I think we can safely say that compromising the early shield bonus can be compensated for magically with Divine Radience AND that we would rather have 2 Learning Bonuses in Celestial Magic than 2 Learning Bonuses in Shield Skill given our preference of magic over melee. Also we would like to use the Celestial spells more quickly, often, and with more power WELL BEFORE becomming a War Witch.

Finally - Even if the class speeds up the process considerably, I think it still violates the emphasis on magic use as opposed to melee.

[Scottg]

continued..

There is one last aspect of Frodo1's build I question (though perhaps its just a "typo"): that the order is specifically stated as "Mage-Fighter-Sorcerer-Valkyrie-War Witch". It would seem to me that such emphasis placed on melee would suggest a Valkyrie BEFORE a Sorcerer (or Shugenja). Looking at the requirements for a Valkyrie:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... lkyrie.php

I can think of several reasons for attaining the Valkryie before the Sorcerer, much of it based on the need to aid skill advancement to achieve the Valkryie class:

1. Melee presumably works better than low level standard magical attacks early in the game.
2. Concentration on melee with Celestial magic as an aid to melee not only allows improved melee ability, but also improves Celestial magic in the process.
3. The Valkyrie class requires 5 in Rune magic, presumably the Adept class aids somewhat in Rune magic increases. Like Celestial magic, Rune magic aids melee ability and possibly melee increases (..being able to kill enemies you other-wise might not be able to without the magical enhancement).
4. Only the low level arcane spell Freezing Touch could aid in melee ability (..of the lower Arcane spells). Nether magic is versital in aiding melee ability, but still far less effective than Rune magic and likely less usefull than Celestial's Divine Radience when considering melee advancement.

What I'm not sure of is precisely where the mage class placement would "fit" for maximum efficency..
____________________________________

Last question: Which would be better: Adept/Valkyrie/Mage/Sorcerer/War Witch OR Adept/Mage/Valkyrie/Sorcerer/War Witch and why?
____________________________________

I would *think* that it would be Mage after Adept but before Valkyrie because:
1. the first level mage quests will be easier and a more natural progression.
2. the Mage class could help with the infrequent Arcane and Nether spells, though increases needed for advancement for the Sorcerer class eventually.
3. the Mage Learning Bonus could help with increasing arcane ability - specifically to increase magic weapon strength for an early magic weapon like the Goblin staff (..which would also help with the increase in light poles needed for the Valkyrie class).

The reason I hesitate here is that sometimes efficient use of leveling is counter intuitive.

[Beorthric]

I have a female elf - enchantress-wizard.

Blast nova deals 100+ damage which is a mass killer you can buy it from grymlok as long as you can pay him. shrieking star is another m'favorite. area knockback damage and fireball'm if you get close flamethrower or ice shards (?/sp) finish'm.

arcane : 20
spellfire : 10

and of course magic weaponry is another way to push enemies back.

But i must confess warrior path is much more fun than mage class, opposite to most of other games

[Scottg]

I think that this thread:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=60789

..answers my 2nd question:

"Second question: which female is better and why when considering all aspects of the character build?"

Particularly from Gaal's "break-down" it appears that the Human Female is the better class. When compared the the HF, the EF has a 32% advantage to Intellegence, and 18% advantage in Agility, and a 24% advantage in Dexterity. Conversly the HF has a 42% advantage in Strength and a whopping 98% advantage in Vitality.

Granted that EF's advantage in Agility and Intellegence are of prime importance to a Magic User character.. BUT the detriments to Vitality and Strength are to much to accept. Moreover the HF is gifted with enhanced Intelligence and Agility when compared to several other races (and males), so its not like the character is actually compromising these 2 important attributes.

[Spiritraiser]

Very interesting, I will try this for sure

[Spiritraiser]

What stats/skills for starting then? Go with lots of Intellignence at start so cost of rest is reduced, go for some strength so that chests can be bashed or something else?

[Scottg]

[QUOTE=Spiritraiser]What stats/skills for starting then? Go with lots of Intellignence at start so cost of rest is reduced, go for some strength so that chests can be bashed or something else? [/QUOTE]

I don't know..

It sounds good though, particularly because of Frodo1's chest bashing method instead of Thief skill increases. (..and this was one of the reasons I think that HF is better then EF.) Perhaps a 2 strength to 1 intelligence attribute increase untill strength reaches the 40 marker that Frodo1 spec'ed for early chests.. then switch to the mage class perhaps and start increasing 2 intelligence to 1 strength?

I suppose another avenue is to go EF.. not be concerned with strength and up intelligence so that you could easily increase any skill - including thief skills (instead of the chest bashing). I don't think though that this is a good alternative because:
1. apparently it is more difficult to increase attributes as they get higher,
2. you are still increasing intelligence for the HF, but to a lesser extent,
3. it could take awhile, (..perhaps quite a bit longer than the HF method), before getting intelligence up enough justify the expenditure in thief skills.

[terran698]

money and spells

...and Godly. All I can say is...:speech: :laugh:

i have found a way before you get to arindale is to get honor to 20 and bargain to 5 and buy and sell blast nova's till you can buy 10 fire nova's and buy and sell them till you have all the money you want. right now i have bargain about 6 and honor at 53 and i sell 510 fire nova's and buy them right back with a $1.4million profit :devil:. i have at least 1k books for each of my spells. im a lvl 19 thrall maurader/sorcerer and am curently questing for wizard.

[terran698]

fav spells

I have a female elf - enchantress-wizard.

Blast nova deals 100+ damage which is a mass killer you can buy it from grymlok as long as you can pay him. shrieking star is another m'favorite. area knockback damage and fireball'm if you get close flamethrower or ice shards (?/sp) finish'm.

arcane : 20
spellfire : 10

and of course magic weaponry is another way to push enemies back.

But i must confess warrior path is much more fun than mage class, opposite to most of other games

i would have to say my favorite spell for up close is ice shards as my melee sucks and i like fire burst more than shrieking star for knock back (as long as you have enough books) and i would have to say blast nova is my all time fav as i dont have cataclysm yet and ice nova has too long of a cool down for me

[ywou whou]

bashing

ok, you guys got bashing to work but im still not sure how, i do have high str.all my char are just under 100 in all stats before i finish game, except honor,but as far as i saw u have to get inspect at least to see what you are doing when bashing. why i usually start out with a rogue,but want to try a different combo.do you not need to see what u are doing when bashing?

i also go hi int route also, my char where lvl 28 and 31 when i beat the games and i just played straight thru. no pling or anything. one shadowlord 1 ninjalord.both wearing deathplate and dual weilding.

the shaman