Thieves - Are they worth it? - Spoilerish

[davfrahen]

For the first time, I`m using a Fighter/Mage/Thief.
My thief is level 11 and is totally useless. He can`t open the door of the derelict house in the Bridge district, or the door to the lich there. Even the one to the slave ship was beyond him.
He sees traps but is incapable of switching them off. He has about a 50% chance of hide in shadows.
I`m playing at Hard level and Jahiera is my only other party member.
His stats are -
Open Locks 45
Find traps 55
Move silently 85
Hide in shadows 85
Set traps 105
My fighter is dual weaponed so the use of a short bow involves far too much messing about.
I sometimes have just Nalia in my party and she can handle all the traps and locks as long as you have some potions available.
She`s also a great mage - much better than Imeon.
I expect there`ll be a few who disagree with me!

[VonDondu]

I guess what you're saying is that ANY 11th level Thief is "useless". Yes, I would disagree.

I think it is very dependent on how you distribute your thieving points. Personally, I think that 70-90 points in the basic skills of Find Traps, Open Locks, Hide in Shadows, and Move Silently make all Thieves about the same from a practical standpoint. Setting traps is a special ability that I rarely use; Detect Illusion is a skill that is more useful later in the game when you can put more thieving points into it; and Pickpocketing is easily enhanced by multiple Potions of Master Thievery on those rare occasions when you see something that is worth stealing.

You put most of your character's thieving points into traps. I assume you did that because you want to use traps. Your character has a very high chance of successfully setting traps, so if you decide to use the ability you chose as his primary ability, then your Thief will actually be very useful.

You said that Nalia can handle all the traps and locks as long as you have some potions available. This is also true for your Fighter/Mage/Thief. 90 points in Open Locks and 90 points in Find Traps will be sufficient well over 95% of the time.

I'm also wondering if you overlooked the fact that your Fighter/Mage/Thief (as well as Nalia) can cast the Knock spell. That comes in handy when you run into those few locks that require over 90 skill points to unlock.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "He has about a 50% chance of hide in shadows," when he has 85 points in Hide in Shadows (as well as Move Silently, which determines how long he can remain hidden). Are you taking into account some sort of modifier? There are also several items in the game that can enhance your character's stealth, and they are quite affordable if you take advantage of your character's innate ability to shoplift.

[davfrahen]

I went for setting traps because I`ve read on here that it`s effective at higher levels.
I used two potions of thievery outside the derelict house in the Bridge District - just to open a door.
Maybe I have a bug or something. I believe Nalia has level four in thievery and she seems to have been more capable than my guy at level eleven.
When I spoke of a 50/50 chance, I meant of hiding in the shadows and sneaking up on someone. My thief fails half of the time to get this effect.
I`m very reluctant to use the `no traps or locks` mod. It seems like cheating to greater extent than I like to go!
I wish I could manage without a thief. I have tried it before but it`s so frustrating.
I forgot to mention that I also have that ring - the one that increases the thief`s scores.

[kmonster]

You simply messed up your thief. If you distributed your points right he should be able to disarm any disarmable trap, open any lock, set traps perfectly and still be able to do deadly backstabbing. I recommend raising FT and OL at the next level ups. Nalia is more successful with this because you spent less points into those skills than her. She has 60 in OL and 80 in FT while your PC only has 45 in OL and 55 FT.

If you built a non-evil character he should be able to improve his thieving skills temporarily by using his "DUHM" special abilty.

[davfrahen]

You`re probably right about points distribution. I`ve put too much emphasis on setting traps.
But what skill is needed for dis-arming traps? He always finds the traps but he can`t do anything about it when he`s found them.

[Dummy]

To disarm the game checks the "find traps" abitliy, but think of it its a different thing to find and disarm a trap

and for your theifing skills, its right Traps are very powerfull, but by that the people usually dont talk about the "traps" they talk about the special traps like

Time trap, especially Spike trap, and maybe the bountyhunter trap

but you will get this traps very late in the game, and you are JUST able to get them IF you have TOB installed anyway

so my adivce to "level" a theif is

Hide/move silent if you want to backstab much
but otherwise level Open locks and Find traps primarily up to round about 100
after that you could level hide / move

and you will STILL have enough time to level set traps or detect illusion or what ever

i usually skip pickpocket and detect illusion

[davfrahen]

There are so many rings in the game that give invisibility (as well as spells) that I don`t think the thief`s `hide` abilities are very important.
Unfortunately, I`ve realised this after giving him too many points in these abilities!

[Crenshinibon]

Because traps are too cheap, I usually skip them, but you don't need more than 100 in them. That gives you a 99% guarantee that you'll succeed.

Detect Illusions is also very useful, especially when everyone is making themselves invisible, mirror imaging themselves and cloning themselves. With a normal thief/swashbuckler, I usually put my points in there after I have about 90 in Open Locks and Find Traps. These skills give you a good amount of experience. Pickpockets is under appreciated. Put 135 points in it and you will almost never fail in shoplifting. Great source of income, not to mention anything you could possibly need.

EDIT: If you can and are planning to backstab, I'd say go for at least 200 in hide and move silently. Very important. Note that shadows give you a bonus and you must be out the enemies' line of sight to hide.

[davfrahen]

I`ve certainly been made to eat my words! My F/M/T has now got UAI and spike and exploding traps.
He`s killed two dragons with traps (with a little help from Jahiera) and his backstab - X5 - is great.
I very rarely have a paladin in my party but now I get to use Carsymyr.
Thieves rule!

[Deadalready]

Thieves are my favourite class!

The problem you've experienced is with stat distribution, it's much better to build up a handfull of skills like locks and traps disarm up to 100 before you start investing into other skills.

Either way invest in a few skills then branch out later on, otherwise your thief will before quite useless until higher levels.