I am in Istanbul...

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:34 pm

... on business, but we have the weekend off. We spent all day today (well, okay, the afternoon, had a lie-in) dodging sales pitches in the grand bazaar, trying not to be sold in exchange for chickens, and trying to avoid being ripped off by taxi drivers.

So does anyone have any tips on must-see/do things while I'm here? I am thinking probably Topkapi Palace and Aya Sofya tomorrow...

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:17 am

Wake up with a cheap red wine hangover in a hotelroom with one of those minarets right outside the window. When that priest starts screeching, it's truly a sublime experience. A "must-do" when you visit Istanbul...

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:18 am

Moonbiter wrote:Wake up with a cheap red wine hangover in a hotelroom with one of those minarets right outside the window. When that priest starts screeching, it's truly a sublime experience. A "must-do" when you visit Istanbul...

LOL, but surely a raki hangover? When in Turkey, and all that...

Unfortunately there's no minaret outside my hotel window, just an outdoor pool that would look very inviting if it wasn't 6 degrees outside (but feeling more like 1 degree), windy and rainy!

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:56 am

Wanderlusting again, I see...

...just hope you haven't forgotten to bring your Groin Grabber (tm), oh Gorgeous One.

When you mean "we", does that include this beautiful bird I met at Bangkok with you?

Or Sleepy? :laugh:

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:11 am

Maharlika wrote:...just hope you haven't forgotten to bring your Groin Grabber (tm), oh Gorgeous One.

When you mean "we", does that include this beautiful bird I met at Bangkok with you?

Or Sleepy? :laugh:

You wouldn't believe the trouble I had getting it through Customs...

LOL, no, my work colleague and I, I'm afraid. You'd like her though.

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:07 pm

try not to get killed

edit: don't forget to buy yourself a nice camel

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:21 pm

Why don't you want to be sold in exchange for chickens? Are you saying you're so modest you're not worthy of the chickens in question?

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:45 pm

fable wrote:Why don't you want to be sold in exchange for chickens? Are you saying you're so modest you're not worthy of the chickens in question?

Why chickens? Why not turkey?

...maybe a substantial change in perspective is in order once Tandoori is involved... *runs for cover* :speech:

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:04 am

I was offered a dozen camels in Istanbul a few years ago... as the dowry.

Seriously, though, it is a great city. I found the Turkish really trying hard to be visitor friendly, and I walked around alone without any problem. I recommend Suleymaniye to visit, if you still have time, Georgi.
Also, if you can you should eat at where local people goes. It's a lot cheaper and fantastic flavour, unless you have problem with spices (it doesn't mean it's hot, though).

Now then, where's Mah? I must tell him I was recently offered a job as a chef because I'm so skilled....

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:07 pm

fable wrote:Why don't you want to be sold in exchange for chickens? Are you saying you're so modest you're not worthy of the chickens in question?

Actually a whole farm was offered, although it didn't sound like it was his to give away... no camels though.

@Minerva - I am out of sightseeing time now (should have thought of posting a bit earlier really!) but at least we managed to get out of our hotel at the weekend. We ate on Saturday in a mezze bar in Istiklal, which was pretty good, and seemed to be mainly full of locals.

@Mah - tandoori? Surely I am worthy of something a bit more spicy?

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:07 pm

A pity I didn't see this thread until now, but I see you have already got a lot of good suggestions, Georgi!

The camel-dowry suggestions is a tourist thing that some people do because they know the tourists still enjoy it

It's the same in Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia and other touristed areas of the Middle East and North Africa. Istanbul today is as modern as any European city. Even at the Grand Bazaar it's not easy to find a to bargain with - most of them think haggling is too time consuming

I hope you had time to see Hagia Sophia and the Süleymaniye Mosque, they are the most beutiful IMO. In the Topkapı Palace, one must see the harem, and at the Grand Bazaar I think the spice market is the best part. Hoped you liked Istanbul and had a good time

I like it although Cappadoccia is actually my favorite part of Turkey (mountains, you know).

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:10 pm

Minerva wrote: Now then, where's Mah? I must tell him I was recently offered a job as a chef because I'm so skilled....

You called?

Congratulations! Now the question is when do I start the taste test? :mischief:

@Gorgeous One: Not just spicy but, how do you Brits say it? BLOODY HELL SPICY.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:37 am

C Elegans wrote:The camel-dowry suggestions is a tourist thing that some people do because they know the tourists still enjoy it

It's a good job Sleepy wasn't with me, I think he would have caved in if he was offered a few camels.

Even at the Grand Bazaar it's not easy to find a to bargain with - most of them think haggling is too time consuming

The trouble is, if you read guidebooks they always say that haggling is expected and they'll be disappointed if you don't bother! Anyway, my colleague got a good bargain on an expensive watch, she was still haggling it down after the guy said it was the best possible price he could do!

I hope you had time to see Hagia Sophia and the Süleymaniye Mosque, they are the most beutiful IMO. In the Topkapı Palace, one must see the harem, and at the Grand Bazaar I think the spice market is the best part. Hoped you liked Istanbul and had a good time I like it although Cappadoccia is actually my favorite part of Turkey (mountains, you know).

Unfortunately there was a big scaffold in the middle of the dome in Hagia Sophia, but we did see it, but the mosque was closed for prayers when we were there, so we couldn't go inside. We liked the spice market, but that could just be because the shopkeeper we were talking to insisted that we sample all the Turkish delight and baklava.

@Mah - That is almost exactly what we Brits would say...

Zelgadis · Post by **Zelgadis** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:59 am

I'm so sad I didn't see this thread earlier. Its quite a coincidence, I've been taking a course on Byzantine history this quarter. Can you post some pictures?

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:35 am

I understand that while Istanbul is Euro-cosmopolitan, once you're in the hinterlands, tolerance of independent behavior among female tourists is very, how shall we say, limited. Would this be a fair assessment? Because I've been curious about the non-touristy aspects of Turkey for some time, but understandably we don't want to go anywhere that my wife will be treated as a second class person. Or, assuming all travelers are second class, then third class.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:08 pm

Georgi wrote:Actually a whole farm was offered, although it didn't sound like it was his to give away... no camels though.

I apologise. I have relatives the world over, and some of them are a bit shady.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:23 pm

Georgi wrote:It's a good job Sleepy wasn't with me, I think he would have caved in if he was offered a few camels.

I can sympathise, I am quite fond of camels myself!

The trouble is, if you read guidebooks they always say that haggling is expected and they'll be disappointed if you don't bother! Anyway, my colleague got a good bargain on an expensive watch, she was still haggling it down after the guy said it was the best possible price he could do!

I know, and that's the general problems with guidebooks - they are written by other tourists and not local people. That's why I never use guidebooks.

Unfortunately there was a big scaffold in the middle of the dome in Hagia Sophia, but we did see it, but the mosque was closed for prayers when we were there, so we couldn't go inside. We liked the spice market, but that could just be because the shopkeeper we were talking to insisted that we sample all the Turkish delight and baklava.

It doesn't matter, the inside is not that impressive IMO, it's the exterior that is important to see. I think the food in general is very good in Turkey, I could easily get fat if I stayed there for a long time!

Fable] I understand that while Istanbul is Euro-cosmopolitan wrote:
Oh, don't worry about that. As in most countries, there is a large difference between the large cities and the rural areas, and in Turkey the difference is larger than in most of Europe, I dare say. Whereas Istanbul is certainly Euro-Near East-cosmopolitan, some rural areas are very undeveloped. In my experience, the countryside is generally quite nice and being a woman is absolutely of no significance. But then there are some aspects that are very unpleasant. For instance, a friend of mine who was travelling around Turkey 2 years ago, entered a small village in a mountain area in the middle of a stoning. Furthermore, honour killings exist in Turkey. It's most prevalent in the southeast regions, although it occationally happens also in the cities due to migration of certain groups of people. In Sweden, Kurds have long been viewed as especially prone to honour killings, but this is an unfair prejudice. The same goes for the incorrect prejudice that honour killings are related to Islam. In reality there are several ethnic and religious groups who practise honour killing - it's related to geographical area rather than other factors. Some are Kurds, some belong to other ethnic groups. Some are christian, some are muslims and some believe in various traditional, pre-christian/islamic religions. It should be noted though that honour killings are not really related to gender, but to the complicated honour concepts that makes bloodshed compensate for loss of status or honour due to norm-breaking behaviours from family members. Unofficial statistics indicate that more men than women are killed due to "honour".
However, if you wish to travel the eastern regions, stick to the more famous places like Mt Nemrut (with the huge heads of the gods, you know), Mt Ararat and the wonderful mountain citadels and you'd be sure of staying out of the small minority groups practising stoning and honour killing.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:50 pm

CE, I'll keep that in mind--thanks! While our plans are set for this fall's travels, probably in two years' time we'll be looking to spend another three weeks in one or two areas of a particular European culture. Not sure which, right now, but Sweden, Denmark, the Baltic nations, and Turkey lead the list.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:23 pm

@Fable: Don't dare to go to Scandinavia while I'm stuck in the US!
I'll probably be back in Sweden two years from now.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:31 pm

C Elegans wrote:@Fable: Don't dare to go to Scandinavia while I'm stuck in the US!
I'll probably be back in Sweden two years from now.

What, and risk being chastised by you? Never!

We will certainly let you know our plans as they take shape.

For those of a literary bent, or slightly bent and literary, there's a fine novel set in Turkey called The Towers of Trebizond, by Rose Macaulay. It has its comic moments, along with others. I'll never forget the opening line of the novel as long as I live, however:

''Take my camel, dear,'' said my Aunt Dot, as she climbed down from this animal on her return from High Mass.

The book feels authentic for place, and not mustily researched, either. Speaking of Greeks, is there still a a smouldering hatred of them by the Turks? I've been given to understand that a cautious thaw has taken place over recent years, ever since the Greeks since considerable aid following one of the worst earthquakes ever known to hit its neighbor, but hatred grants long memories.