prestige class

Silencher · Post by **Silencher** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:50 pm

I have a Paladin at the moment and I am looking to improve him. I basically want to have him gain Divine spells without losing too much of his attack/hit dice. I know going cleric may be the only choice I have, but I was wondering if there are any prestige classes out there that are specifically tailored to Paladins that allow more spellcasting, possibly combining their levels for laying on hands+smite damage?

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:36 pm

Blackguard is about the only one that does both spells and smite, but if you can live with just spells and Base Attack bonuses, Warpriest would be a good one if you have Complete Divine.

TismeVader · Post by **TismeVader** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:09 pm

theres always the silver flame class (but that is errabon)

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:29 pm

TismeVader wrote:theres always the silver flame class (but that is errabon)

Not to mention, that class is horribly under balanced and ineffective if not in an undead based campaign. Btw, it's Eberron, not Errabon.

TismeVader · Post by **TismeVader** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:22 am

i have never played as one and sorry for the spellling error

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:22 am

You could use the Prestige Paladin from Unearthed Arcana. It can be found on the SRD here: SRD - Prestigious Classes
Wasn't the Silverflame Inquisitor PrC focused against outsiders? Anyway, fluff-wise, I liked it a lot.

Sabeather · Post by **Sabeather** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:41 am

If you want over-the-top damage and effectiveness then keep your paladin for a bit longer (if you can improve his heals) then mix him with a warblade or a red.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:44 am

I'd rather mix a Paladin with a Crusader, they fit better thematicly and mechanicly, but this still doesn't give you extra casting power, like the OP asked.

Sabeather · Post by **Sabeather** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:56 pm

well ive actually seen someone mix a Paladin with a Wizard.

Start out with Wizard to get your missle spells and some other helpfull things, then go paladin and wear some light armor. It works out to a casting class that can kinda take care of itself.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:05 pm

Well, take sorcerer then instead of wizard. Wizard will only increase your MAD. You can get some seriously hardhitters from a Paladin/Sorcerer Gish.
Another way to give your paladin casting, would be the Knight of the Weave Prestige Class from Champions of Valour.
If you have to stick to Core, I'd opt for my Prestigious Paladin suggestion. Otherwise, a Pal4/Cleric16 is good.
A final thought: a Pal4/FavouredSoul 16 would do nicely. You can find that class in Complete Divine & the MiniHandbook.

HTSamurai · Post by **HTSamurai** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:59 am

Siberys wrote:Blackguard is about the only one that does both spells and smite, but if you can live with just spells and Base Attack bonuses, Warpriest would be a good one if you have Complete Divine.

yeah thats pretty much on the head of it.......

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:29 am

Well, problem is that Warpriest even gives you LESS spellpower as a Paladin. Not that it is a bad PrC.

Soontir Fel · Post by **Soontir Fel** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:39 am

If your Diety is Herioneous, Shining Blade is an awesome PrC. You keep your divine spells and you gain +1 level for spellcasting class -paladin it is, and gain Shock blade, Holy blade and Briliant blade which makes your weapon a shock and holy and brilliant weapon!

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:29 am

Acutally, that is one of the worst PrC's around. You loose half your caster levels - terrible. The weapon enhancements aren't so good either. Shocking? 1d6 extra damage? Holy? Only good for punching through DR. Brilliant Energy is decent, but dangerous. You can't harm undead or constructs anymore. I'd avoid it.
Worst of all, to activate each ability, you have to spend a standard action, making you useless that round.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:40 am

GawainBS wrote:Acutally, that is one of the worst PrC's around. You loose half your caster levels - terrible. The weapon enhancements aren't so good either. Shocking? 1d6 extra damage? Holy? Only good for punching through DR. Brilliant Energy is decent, but dangerous. You can't harm undead or constructs anymore. I'd avoid it.
Worst of all, to activate each ability, you have to spend a standard action, making you useless that round.

Actually, holy isn't just for damage reduction. Any evil creature takes +2D6 points of damage. ANY evil creature, not just outsiders or undead or chaotic evil beings.

Lets also not forget that with those abilities, he also gains a high base attack bonus, good fortitude and will saves, D10 hit points, and even if half at least some continuation of spellcasting. It's not a bad class to be honest. Not great mind you, but not bad.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:58 am

2d6 extra damage versus evil creatures is still pretty bad for a +2 enhancement.
The other abilities you summed up don't wirgh up to the cast of opportunity, namely lost caster levels.
Just the fact that the activation of the weapon abilities take a standard action each is reason enough to call this a bad PrC.
Why would a paladin take this PrC? The only advantage would be the better Will save. That would hardly compensate for the lost caster levels. He already has Divine Grace and above average WIS, so his Will save will be pretty decent. He could just as well stay a pure paladin and gain a better mount and more spellcasting and some more smites.
Why would a cleric take this? The only advantages would be the better Base Attack & HD, but the Cleric can emulate this with a 4th lvl spell: Divine Power. He would have to be insane to sacrifice 5!! caster levels to it.
All this is in consideration that the weapon abilities are negligible. If the activation would be a swift action, it would be a bit less worse.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:43 pm

Just the fact that the activation of the weapon abilities take a standard action each is reason enough to call this a bad PrC.

That's how magic weapons normally work anyways. Most damage affecting special weapon enhancements use the command word activation, and that ALWAYS takes a standard action.

Meaning, if I had a +1 flaming holy brilliant energy longsword. Even without the Shining blade PrC, it'd take me a standard action to activate each one anyways.

Lets also not forget that added enhancement bonuses for most damage effect special weapon abilities -stack- with each other. None of the damage is a named bonus. It doesn't say a +1D6 enhancement bonus to shocking damage, it just says a +1D6 to shocking damage. And using an extra plus one ability modifier, there is absolutely no harm in having a +1 Shocking Shocking Shocking Shocking longsword that simply deals 4D6 electric damage.

Holy is also an unnamed damage bonus, and therefore stacks with itself too.

The only thing that doesn't stack is Brilliant energy and that's because it doesn't have a damage bonus.

The only downside to having a +1 4Shocking blade is it takes 4 standard actions to activate each shocking enhancement.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:59 pm

Siberys wrote:
The only downside to having a +1 4Shocking blade is it takes 4 standard actions to activate each shocking enhancement.

That's reason enough to call it "bad".
With standard enhancements, you could activate them when you wake up, and disable them at the end of the day.
In this PrC, the abilities are limited in their duration.
Also, you can't stack them (the PrC abilities) with themselves. (Holy with Shocking, but not Holy x2.)

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:24 pm

GawainBS wrote:That's reason enough to call it "bad".
With standard enhancements, you could activate them when you wake up, and disable them at the end of the day.
In this PrC, the abilities are limited in their duration.
Also, you can't stack them (the PrC abilities) with themselves. (Holy with Shocking, but not Holy x2.)

Why not? The class doesn't say you can't, and it even has the same description of the weapon special ability. Shocking from a weapon and shocking from the PrC CAN stack, as they are both unnamed bonuses. Furthermore, there are weapons and magic items all over official WoTC supplements that make magical special abilities stack with class or prestige class abilities. Deadly Precision weapon enhancement from complete warrior adds to sneak attack damage. The ring of wizardry sets add to spells per day, as well as pearls of power. The rogues vest from the dungeon masters guide 2 adds sneak attack damage. The monks belt adds additional stunning fist uses per day.

The only thing that doesn't stack with itself even if unnamed is a modifier to a roll, which is not an entirely new roll in itself like shocking or holy weapon abilities.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:34 pm

I said that the PrC ability can't stack with itself for the same enhancement. Two shockings from the PrC's, for example. Explicitly stated in the description.
Anyway, damage enhancements aren't the most effective applications of the enhancements of a weapon.