My protagonist turned evil all of a sudden...(spoilers)

Hurk Fun · Post by **Hurk Fun** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:02 pm

...even though I've played through the entirety of Shadows of Amn in a very good aligned manner. I'm in the first city of Throne of Bhaal now, and from the start of SoA up to this point, the only remotely evil things I can recall doing are (1) taking the path on the right in the Selfish test back near the end of SoA, (2) letting Imoen give Sarevok a part of her soul, and (3) taking the barracks in Saradush by force to get the sewer key. I wasn't even aware that your protagonist's alignment could change at all, much less go from Neutral Good to Neutral Evil in the blink of an eye.

Is it a side affect of importing my character from SoA, or some kind of bug, or what, and is there any way to reverse it? Does being evil-aligned have all that much impact on the game (e.g. can I still run around acting like a goody-two-shoes despite the game's labeling me as pure evil)?

There's also something funky going on with a mini-quest to restore life to some tyke's father. Rather than showing up as a corpse on the ground, he's apparently still standing and scratching his nuts like he's fine. Stranger still, there's no circle around him (blue or otherwise), and when I hover the mouse over him while Raise Dead or anything else is selected, the mouse remains grey as if there is nothing there. Maybe I've got the wrong guy, but the fact that the game won't let me interact with him in any way is strange in any case. I hope the quest isn't essential.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:03 am

The actions in the final part of SoA may change your alignment, depending on the choices you make.

To do that quest, you must first talk to the kid. It is done through dialog.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:19 am

That's BG2. You can rob, blackmail or murder helpless innocents and still stay lawful good, but if you don't act like an idiotic movie hero stereotype in chapter 7 you become neutral evil.
That's called roleplaying depth. You didn't act like the game developers wanted you to and got punished.

anarchistica · Post by **anarchistica** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:29 pm

Your alignment becomes Evil when you choose any Evil option in the Hell Trials (unless you're using the Revised Hell Trials mod).

You have to talk to the son of the killed man to raise him.

Hurk Fun · Post by **Hurk Fun** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:23 pm

Sheeeit.

That doesn't seem right to me, though. Why make one test in the whole game affect your alignment, when nothing else does? It makes no sense, and even has a trick factor to it.

But why didn't I become Chaotic Neutral or something? A neutral aligned character is free to do good or evil to a certain extent, right? I mean, it was bastardly evil to sacrifice someone to keep my heroic attributes intact, but...uhhh....

IT WAS FOR THE GREATER GOOD! With my godly power and intellect I shall make up for the poor lost soul who died for me with a thousand deeds of justice and orderly conduct!!! YEAAAAH!!!!

Well, thanks for the help!

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:14 am

Neutral Evil is the alignment of Bhaal. You gave in to your essence and became evil.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:44 am

it's one thing that I think Shadowkeeper is valid to change - if you allow a party member to die at any other time in the game, you don't change alignment, yet knowing that you can instantly raise a party member afte rthe hell trial, you let it happen, suddenly you are evil. that isn't joined-up thinking to me. if you didn't raise that character, then yes, you have sacrificed them, but the PC is not responsible, somebody else inflicts the pain and death, all you did is not stop it. it is not as if you could take on that avatar to fight them instead to recapture the party member.

what happens if you are solo at that point?

Hurk Fun · Post by **Hurk Fun** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:28 am

When you try to go through the test with no one in your party, the demon-thing summons a simple peasant to take your ally's place.

That's actually what I did; I temporarily disbanded everyone and went through the test alone. It hurts worse, really (you can't resurrect the poor fellow).

Well, I tried to restart, but decided I was a little burnt out on the game. I'm playing through Icewind Dale II again in the meantime. Next time, I'll probably make a protagonist who won't miss the hit points and dexterity as much as my fighter/mage would.

Thanks again for your help!

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:28 am

From my experience, if you have a paladin or ranger protagonist, you will immediately become fallen when you take the evil path for that test, regardless of who you sacrifice, a party member or a peasant.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:37 pm

there is no logic to your losses, which is why I object.

why should a character lose stats in tests? I don't think the Hell tests were very well implemented - there should be more logic to them - even a 1 point shift of alignment - eg G to N would be fairer than a G to E.

Dummy · Post by **Dummy** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:38 am

of cuz, i think thats very well made at nvn2 anyway, a ranger and a paladin will loose they abilitys and "fall" when they get neutral since both must be good, paladin lawfull good

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:26 am

fair enough, but a CG character?

kimildur · Post by **kimildur** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:45 pm

Remove evil alignment affect with Shadow Keeper

To remove the evil alignment affects from the hell trials, install and run Shadow Keeper. Open your latest savegame. Go to the "Affects" tab on your main character and remove the "Alignment Change" affects in the list (delete them, don't edit them or the game might crash). Save and then load up your modified savegame in BG2. You're back to good alignment again.

No guarantees that this won't trigger some unexpected behavior though.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:23 am

Celacena wrote:fair enough, but a CG character?

The Chaotic part shouldn't matter too much. Remember, Law & Chaos are entirely seperate from Good & Evil in D&D. Most people seem to think that LG is "more good" than CG, but this isn't the case. If you didn't make that mistake, I apologize beforehand.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:45 pm

GawainBS wrote:The Chaotic part shouldn't matter too much. Remember, Law & Chaos are entirely seperate from Good & Evil in D&D. Most people seem to think that LG is "more good" than CG, but this isn't the case. If you didn't make that mistake, I apologize beforehand.

no problem - I understand the philosophy/theology behind it - western society sees order as part of goodness, yet random acts of kindness are not part of the order where rule keepers deserve better than rule-breakers.

by profession, I am NG/LG, but there is a part of me that likes goodness - kindness to ones fellow man - more than rules. evil people can love rules and the Nazis are a prime example of LE, yet there is the kind of indiscriminate evil espoused by terrorists than is CE - disorder and random suffering for its own sake. Chaotic Good is a difficult alignment - it believes in mercy more than justice and that rules often don't work to promote well-being, so people should be free to live without many rules - NG is easier in that it tries to balance rules against freedom.

A chaotic good character will make decisions that are not guaranteed to produce good results, but would rather take the risks of change than let bad rules predominate.

I think a chaotic character would gamble without become evil, even if somebody suffered - they did not inflict the suffering so why should they be held responsible?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:28 am

Not true about the gambling: a CG character that took the bet and lost, and caused suffering, would have caused as much evil as a NG or LG. The only thing we could say about gambling is that they would approach it differently: for example, the CG might trust his guts the he will have luck, the LG might calculate his chances of succes and decide wether or not the odds are worth it. Mind you, this is just an example.
But you hit the nail on the head with the Nazi example: they used order and laws to inflict great harm and suffering. It's easier for underlings to deflect blame to their superiors that way, and thus make the atrocities easier to commit. After all, you were only following orders.
This conflict of L&C and G&E often leads to lots of debates about paladins and their code: If their lawful superior gives them an evil command, should they break the L-part or the G-part? Personally, I feel they should be Good before Lawful, but that's how *I* view the code.