The Ulitharid, round 2 (spoiler)

Sanguin · Post by **Sanguin** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:26 am

I'm sorry for starting another topic on this but I don't feel the matter is settled

*miserable look*

I had done a search before I posted my question! Not only here but on google too. I wouldn't pester you people if I could find help elsewhere. (And I wouldn't start a new topic after a thread on the same was locked unless I was really desperate).

The trouble is that Mind Flayers are different from the monsters I'm having trouble with. As I said, they are somewhat vulnerable to magic and they can be killed by Couldkill or Disintegrate. But not the Ulitharid! I tried everything written on the tactics page, but they DO charm my summoned skeletons (!) and the guys still drop dead from some spell which I can't identify, no matter how closely I look at the combat log

Ulitharid attacks Keldorn. Keldorn - death. That's it.

I'll try to be more specific this time, perhaps someone can recall his own experience and tell me how he defeated these monsters.

I'm in the Athkatla Sewers, in a hidden section that was opened with a Sewer Key dropped by Tazok in Windspear Hills. There are a few Umber Hulks, Mind Flayers (which I can handle with tricks or force). The problem begins with the Ulitharid and an Alhoon. These seem to be completely magic resistant (none of my area or death spells work on them) and they have a spell or attack which I don't recognize that makes my party members drop dead instantly. Death Ward doesn't work against it.

The weird thing is that I have already been in the Illithid area in Watcher's Keep and I haven't met creatures like these even there (although I might have missed a few rooms).

The party is around level 14-15, able to cast level 7 cleric and level 6 wizard spells.

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:58 am

They drain INT with each hit. 5 int, iirc. Therefore, any char will drop dead in 2-4 hits. Ulitharids are just like mind flayers, but a little stronger, I suppose. Fighting them isn't any different though. Summons like Skeletons and Mordenkainen's sword works wonders here. And avoid getting hit multiple times with your chars - if he has a red halfmoon with stars on it, pull him back.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:40 am

Useful stuff against these types of foes:
Chaotic commands
potion of genius or mind focusing
improved haste
undead summons or mordenkainens sword (preferably hasted)
if you have a bard or a fighter/mage then mislead, prot from magic weapons is a good way. Combined with chaotic commands of course.

Sanguin · Post by **Sanguin** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:41 am

Thrifalas wrote: They drain INT with each hit. 5 int, iirc. Therefore, any char will drop dead in 2-4 hits.

That's it, then! That's why we drop like flies! ^^ Couldn't have guessed for the life of me. Thanks!

Thrifalas wrote: Summons like Skeletons and Mordenkainen's sword works wonders here. And avoid getting hit multiple times with your chars - if he has a red halfmoon with stars on it, pull him back.

The skeletons were charmed! (I used Animate Dead spells.) Mordekainen's Sword, I don't have it yet, but I'll go and search for a scroll so that my mage can learn it. But I had no idea about the drain thing. Thanks a lot again, I'll try a different approach now that I'm aware of this

Cheers!

(And sorry for the double thread again)

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 am

Usually Mindflayers drain 3 pt/hit of int., but maybe Ulitharid being elite elements drain 5.
As for the Alhoon it is a very strong opponent, being an Ulitharid Lich iirc.
As for them charming your Skeletons (which I hope are skeleton warriors) it seems strange, isn't that you are using some AoE spells that dmg them, thus making them hostile?
Have you also maybe installed Weimer tactics mod "imp. mindlayers"? That would make 'em much harder to beat.
BTW considering that there is nothing involved in that quest (it's a minor side quest) why don't you wait till you are a bit stronger before facing them?

Sanguin · Post by **Sanguin** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:39 am

lompo wrote: Usually Mindflayers drain 3 pt/hit of int., but maybe Ulitharid being elite elements drain 5.
As for the Alhoon it is a very strong opponent, being an Ulitharid Lich iirc.
As for them charming your Skeletons (which I hope are skeleton warriors) it seems strange, isn't that you are using some AoE spells that dmg them, thus making them hostile?

Hm... they aren't the big kind of skeletons... Just tiny corpses with glowing eyes and maces. Called Skeleton in the combat log. Maybe my summos are too weak, and that's the problem. (Besides that I didn't realise the INT drain thing, therefore I was completely unprepared for it).

lompo wrote: Have you also maybe installed Weimer tactics mod "imp. mindlayers"? That would make 'em much harder to beat.

Nope, nothing of that sort.

lompo wrote: BTW considering that there is nothing involved in that quest (it's a minor side quest) why don't you wait till you are a bit stronger before facing them?

That's exactly what I'll do, I'll come back when I have more powerful spells (Mordekainen's Sword, for example).

Thanks for the help, everyone

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:39 am

The easiest and safest way to defeat them is using the level 6 mage spell "Summon Invisible Stalker", summon as many as possible and send them into rooms and they'll take out Mindflayers with ease. However invisible stalkers have problems beating Umber Hulks.

I'm not sure, however I think on critical hit Mindflayers can kill in a single hit using some sort of special "Brain Devour" attack or something.

~

Another easy way is using invisible characters without attack scripts turned on blocking doors and archers blessed with "Chaotic Commands" kill Mindflayers from afar.

I think searching for "Mindflayers", "Defeating", "Killing" should come up with plenty of helpful guides to defeating them. I find it hard to believe you've tried many of them, there's so many ways to defeat them it's not funny.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:39 am

Umber Hulks can be dealt with easily enough if you can protect your party from getting confused. Hopefully have an item or two that can offer these protections more or less permanently, or you could rely on spells.

Ulitharids are annoying to fight, but can be taken down sufficiently simply with a good tactics. You could try to backstab them with a rogue. Haste the rogue before hand and try to protect the rogue against charm and confusion. That way, you backstab, run away, hide again around the corner, then reemerge on the pursuing Ulitharid and backstab it again. Hasted, there should be little chance it can hit you with an attack. It should usually try to charm/confuse you first anyway.

Mindflayers, are psychic strong beings that attack the mind and eat brains. Undead should be immune to their attacks (having no minds). I never did have to resort to that tactic however, so I do not know if your's is a bug or not.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:32 pm

umber hulks - die very easily to cloud-kill (spell or wand)

mindflayers - they are nasty so I use either summoned creatures or traps/cloudkill. you do NOT want to melee against them - the INT drain is often lethal - skeleton warriors are my favourite mindflayer cannon-fodder - I suggest that yu cast improved invis on a couple of skelly warriors and send them in.

it's a case of the cheesy - open door, cast cloudkill, close door, run fast - repeat.

it feels really unfair when you have over 100 HP left and they kill the character with their drain. potion of genius offers some relief though

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:56 pm

Celacena wrote:it's a case of the cheesy - open door, cast cloudkill, close door, run fast - repeat.

No offense, but I don't find this cheesy. It's just good tactics, especially if you have some of those boots that increase your speed. I like to give them to Jan, have him cast Invisibility, approach the umber hulks, and let a cloud kill spell rip from a wand, then run away as quickly as possible.

Now, out-running an illithid attempt at Domination through those boots--that's cheesy. Because you can actually see the spell coming out you. The boots should enhance your running speed, not give you the ability to see the spell trying to track you. Much less outrun it. Just my point of view.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:24 am

I don't think it's cheesy, but so many people have jumped on me for using CK that I assumed I was an outcast...

glad that for once somebody thinks a CK solution is acceptable.

as for domination, there's a sword called Psions Blade and helms.

(I've got Sarevok wielding it in ToB +5 tasty!)

Dummy · Post by **Dummy** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:32 am

yes there are but you obtain them in midgame TOB so they are not as solution at SOA

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:09 pm

If you used another means to keep them within the Cloudkill, it would not be cheezy. The cheeze is in that the closed door; and the Illithids/Ulitharids are unable to open them to pursue, heck, if you dropped a Cloudkill and they just stand there because you are not visible... that is cheezy.

If the room was only Umber Hulks, yeah... that's more reasonable I suppose... but what creature with an Int 3 and above would actually stay within the spell's affect until it dies? (Unless they had no other option of course, like Umber Hulks being unable to open doors.)

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:52 am

There are much easier tactics to get rid of all kind of Umberhulks, Mind Flayers, Ulitharids and Beholders with a single 12th lvl cleric(or higher). Maybe you didn't notice, but the Mind Flayers and the Beholders are under the Temple district, where is the Clerical quest. So, a single cleric can deal with those enemies with ease. Simply get Viconia or Anomen in your group. Clerics can effectively use the Blade Barrier 6th lvl spell as a weapon while Invisible. Simply stand in the middle of the enemy group and re-cast Blade Barrier until they all are dead. Sanctuary and Improved Invisibility work too, but I prefer Invisibility(either from a ring, potion or the 2nd lvl mage spell), because it lasts 24 hours.
The monsters mentioned above don't have the ability to detect invisible units(ulness once spotted, in which case the Beholders will afterwards see you without any troulbe, even if you re-cast Invisibility).
Aerie, in a similar way, can take care of Elder Orbs, but in that case the additiona spell which must be used is Spell Immunity: Divination because Elder Orbs will cast True Sight. Unfortunately, Blade Barrier will not cut through Stoneskin.

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:56 am

Some comments: There's a number of ways that I find acceptable to deal with mindflayers (int drain 3/hit) and the Ulitharids (int drain 5/hit). In most cases 3 Skeleton Warriors and 2 Mord swords that are hasted can clean out the bunch while the party has a tea break. Be sure that the Mord swords kill the umber hulks (who are very good at killing skeletons) and then the Ulitharids. Death Spell can thin the herd by eliminating the umber hulks and some of the mind flayers.

I have no problem using Cloud Kill either, but I never close the door. Intelligent foes will open the door, and even unintelligent creatures would seek to the leave the orange clouds of poison.

It seems to me that these psionic elite creatures should be able to sense where minds are and not be affected by invisibility. Does anyone else use mods to make sure that the mindflayers see through invisibility?

CrimsonGaara · Post by **CrimsonGaara** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:37 am

I'm unsure where I can post it, but I don't see this suggestion anywhere.

I've found that summoning a pit fiend also seems to work wonders, particularly in the narrow corridors of the Illithid city, even if the Illithids manage to psionic blast you, they can't get past the pit fiend to even get to you.
It's pretty cool, summoning one of them, a few skellies and invisible stalkers work pretty well, just be sure to direct the skels and invisible stalkers to attack the Illithids.

I hope this helps, sure helped me on more than one occasion. :laugh:

Lightning Rod · Post by **Lightning Rod** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:37 pm

No Problem Charmed - Minor Spoiler

I found a nice tactic. I use a single hasted char with a ranged weapon. I get the Umber Hulks (fast) to chase me into a room, close the door and kill them with my fighter who has some basic resist magic equip or protection (usually use the Shield of the Lost) and a good melee weapon. I then go after the Mind Flayers with my ranged weapon. If they Charm/Dominate me they stop attacking and none of my party are nearby. I just wait out the spell and start hitting them again with my ranged weapon.

I just need a room where my hasted char can stay away from them. I'm still on my first time through, doing every quest, am in the Underdark about to leave,

Spoiler

Spoiler

is there any reason to keep the Control Circlets I got in the Mind Flayer dungeon?

Thanks

Dradeel · Post by **Dradeel** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:52 am

If I remember correctly they work on anything (act as charm spell without save), so you can charm almost everything or at least a lot. I take them from the underdark just becouse of the item upgrade mod. There are two things that can be improved with them.