I must be doing something wrong :( (WK spoiler)

Sanguin · Post by **Sanguin** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:57 am

Hey all,

I'm in Watcher's Keep now, 3rd level, and I'm having trouble at every turn I take. If anone has a clue what I might be doing wrong please help me because dying/reloading is starting to drive me nuts.

I've just managed to kill Thazzanar at the cost of like 34 reloads, 3 charges of the Rod of Resurrection and innumerable healing potions... Difficulty setting is on novice already

The party consists of a Cavalier, Keldorn, Anomen (yeah I pretty much wanted the whole Order but it's just the three of us yet

), Minsc, Boo, Haer'Dalis and Jan, everyone's around lvl 10-11.

Most of the time I find my men punched dead before they can do serious damage, why is that? I tried wearing shields for more protection but it wasn't a great help, they got knocked out anyway. Usually I can whip up something against magic (great item bonuses and cleric spells against charms) but even if I manage to get them all face the enemy they just can't take the hits. Ok, Haer'Dalis is fine, he's just a bard and I can conceal him with magic anyway but what about Keldorn and Minsc and my Cavalier? They are dressed in tin from head to toe, what else can I do to protect them?

Maybe my party is too low level for this area? If so, what level do you think is recommended for WK? I hear some people solo this place

Qeed · Post by **Qeed** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:36 am

I think you are to low level. I usually do it around lvl 17-19 or maybe higher.

Also, the loot in there is so good that I would recomend you to do WK in ToB, otherwise SoA will be VERY easy to beat.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:17 am

Also, it seems like you're a bit low on the Arcane power. Haer'Dalis & Jan as your only mages isn't a lot.

mcgregor · Post by **mcgregor** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:07 am

Agreed on both points. Unless you are a very experienced player, I'd leave Watchers Keep until the end of SoA or beginning of ToB. Otherwise it is a) too hard and b) makes the rest of the game too easy.

The party you have is fine, but having a proper mage along would help enormously - I'd loose Keldorn personally, 2 paladins is overkill (given the main advantage is a certain sword which only occurs once). If not him, Minsc. Take Nalia or Edwin along.

mcgregor

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:20 pm

mcgregor wrote:I'd loose Keldorn personally, 2 paladins is overkill (given the main advantage is a certain sword which only occurs once).

To me, that's like saying that having any two warriors in your party is overkill, which isn't really true. On the other hand, your point that there is too much focus on melee and not enough arcane power makes sense.

As for the idea that Paladins don't have anything to offer unless they wield one particular sword, let's just say I disagree. Even if I have only one Paladin in my party, there are other viable weapon options--for example, dual-wielding Foebane and Purifier.

I like Sanguin's idea to run a theme party that includes as many members of the Order of the Radiant Heart as possible. Any NPC who wants to belong to a righteous organization might fit in, including Haer'Dalis (Doomguard) and Minsc (Ice Dragon Berserker Lodge), but I can't think of any Mages who belong to a compatible organization. You don't want a Red Wizard (Edwin), Cowled Wizard, or Zhentarim in your party, for example. I can see the point in having Jan along for his thieving skills and dialogue, but I think that Imoen would also be a good choice instead of Edwin or Nalia. I would probably sacrifice Haer'Dalis to have two Mages in my party:

Cavalier (main character)
Keldorn
Anomen
Minsc
Imoen
Jan

To answer the original question, 10th-11th level is way too low to go to Watcher's keep. I'm surprised you made it to the third level.

sparky_kat · Post by **sparky_kat** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:24 pm

i am also suprised you made it as far as you did at such low level.... be proud of that. but... you should listen to advise and wait until the end of SoA or wait to do it until you get into ToB. the levels in WK only get harder from where you are.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:07 pm

Watcher's Keep is a ToB area, designed for characters with about 3,000,000 XP or even more. I recommend leaving it for now and not returning before you started SoA. Store the books, the papers with hints and quest items in a container there, no need to carry them around through SoA.

Unlike the others I'd say you've more than enough arcane power in your party, the game won't become easier if you get another mage to join. You can of course change some party members if you want to try out someone else, your Cavalier, Jan (mage spells, thieving) and Anomen (cleric spells) already cover everything important, the rest is unimportant.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:29 am

It's not the quantity of his Arcane power, but rather the quality: with only a bard and a multiclass mage, you're behind on your most powerful spells. For me, this tends to make a difference.

Sanguin · Post by **Sanguin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:23 am

mcgregor wrote: Agreed on both points. Unless you are a very experienced player, I'd leave Watchers Keep until the end of SoA or beginning of ToB. Otherwise it is a) too hard and b) makes the rest of the game too easy.

Okay. It's not urgent, I just thought I'd have a look before I leave to Spellhold (I didn't even think of coming back from ToB, dunno why

)

mcgregor wrote: The party you have is fine, but having a proper mage along would help enormously - I'd loose Keldorn personally, 2 paladins is overkill (given the main advantage is a certain sword which only occurs once).

Unfortunately that is not possible. I'm concerned about Anomen's career as a knight, and the development of his personal character, and I need Keldorn's wisdom to guide him, even if he rejects his advices at the moment. He's way too arrogant and conceited to be left alone without any kind of subtle supervision - he'll give a bad name for the Order if he doesn't change his attitude.

Btw, does anyone know why Keldorn isn't Sir Keldorn...? As far as I know, he's still a member of the Order, isn't he?

mcgregor wrote: If not him, Minsc.

NEVER! I'd die before I abandon Minsc and Boo!

mcgregor wrote:Take Nalia or Edwin along.

Nalia is a sissy, and I despise Edwin, I won't let that ratbag insult Minsc all the time! (He fits my evil party lead by a Thief perfectly well, though :mischief

OK, that's enough of RPG reasons

I get your point, though, I originally had Aerie in the party, instead of Anomen. But I just can't let him go astray, you see

At least I know she's safe at the Circus, while I keep an eye on that haughty squire.

It's not the quantity of his Arcane power, but rather the quality: with only a bard and a multiclass mage, you're behind on your most powerful spells. For me, this tends to make a difference.

Yep, that is definitely true. I made it to the Imprisoned One eventually (everyone levelled up to 14-15) but I can't beat the guardians so I'll give it up here for now. My party members get Imprisoned and Mazed all the time, and I have nothing to counter that.

I'll come back later! Thanks for the advice, everyone!

mcgregor · Post by **mcgregor** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:35 am

Well, of course I can understand you might have rolyplaying reasons for keeping those characters in your party, and its an idea i've never tried out - picking a party for roleplaying reasons, that is. Anomen's always annoyed me too much to care about his quest, for a start. But personally I usually try to pick my party to make the game as easy as possible for me, and thats why I would drop one of those 2, but if you can get them to the WK guardians I'm sure the rest of the game will be a piece of cake! Good luck!

mcgregor

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:20 am

Don't let some posters make you insecure. You are not doing something wrong with your party composition. The fight with the Imprisoned One wouldn't be easier at all if you had Edwin in your party.
There's also no need to add a pure mage for the rest of the game, for SoA Jan already has more spell power than a standard mage would have in a SoA only game because of the extra XP he gained in WK and he can cast spells of the highest level in ToB.

sparky_kat · Post by **sparky_kat** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:38 pm

Sanguin wrote: Btw, does anyone know why Keldorn isn't Sir Keldorn...? As far as I know, he's still a member of the Order, isn't he?

have you done any keldorn quests? one quest does relate to that.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:54 am

WK is tough. so tough that it makes the rest of SoA seem a bit too easy, BUT I do like to do bits of it to get the treasure - even if you only do the top floor, you get some very useful equipment and going shopping at the Sister's Emporium gets you the best crossbow in the game (gets upgraded to +6 in ToB) which I give to Keldorn and were it not for another sword that also can be upgraded to a butt-kicking +6, the sword in the stone is worth trying a bit of the lower level for.

should you have a thief, you can let the succubus jump you to the Cambion, nick his cards and get your party (or PC) 1,000,000 xp if you play your cards right.

alternatively you can upgrade all your stats mechanically then leave.

it IS challenging, but despite the lack of arcane power, the party stands a chance of getting useful xp and items which increase its chances further.

FWIW - I start WK soon after I escape I's dungeon and go back when I'm strong enough to handle the maze - I don't usually do WK in one hit.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:17 pm

Whilst I have gone there straight from the Irenecus's dungeon, it is extremely difficult, so I would not recommend it so early unless you have a very good reason for doing so.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:24 pm

There is no shame involved in leaving an area you judge too difficult, and returning later for your party to cover itself in glory. WK is by my standards, at least, the most difficult area available early in SoA. I was told by one of the development team for ToB that they added WK as a freestanding always-there in SoA for those players who liked insanely difficult challenges as early as possible; a kind of "I can beat my record of finishing it successfully at X point" kind of person.

If you're not into that, leave it for a bit. The rewards will still be there, and so will the monsters, patiently awaiting your return.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:36 am

It is possible to beat WK quite early, I think once managed to do it almost immediately out of Irenicus's stronghold. However beating WK early made the rest of the game boring and I deleted and started a new.

Your party combination makes it extremely hard, use of multiple buffing spells like haste, protection from evil, mantra, Harmony, bless will help though. There are also cheesy protections you can use or just plain cheese if you're inclined.

My concern is there's lots of nasties capable of insta-killing an entire low level party though.