Witcher's Women

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:22 am

I haven't played the game yet, but out of curiosity I clicked on the "Witcher's Walkthrough Complete" link. I started out reading the "general tips". After that, I saw a special section called "Women of the Witcher".
I just have to ask: Why are the pictures of nearly all the women like they're begging to be screwed? (This is about the only word that would get through the swearing filter that I could think of that would cover the way those women look.)
I'm not a prude by far, but I get tired of all those women in fantasy being portraited as being only good for sex. I mean, where's the realism? A cleric with her skirt hiked up on her butt, while she's waggling it to the player? I know our local cleric doesn't do that...

For me, it would be detrimental to immersion in a game. One or two lurid women, ok, you meet those in real life as well. Same for men. But all of them?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:05 am

The "Women of Witcher" are the conquests Geralt can do in the game if the player chooses to do so.
As you can see from some of the other discussions in this forum, the game is has sexual atmosphere stemming from the background story for the game. Women want to sleep with Geralt, and he wants to sleep with women.

It isn't something complex like why women are portrayed only good for sex or anything like that (and one could argue that the women in Witcher uses Geralt as much as he uses them).
However, these are simply "cards" you can "collect" in a game which has sexual undertones amongst other things. Sure there is a discussion in regards of this topic, and it is one that's not new or singular to The Witcher, but more society in general (magazine, movies, games etc). But in this situation regarding The Witcher - it is in my opinion overinterpretating the game by assigning irrelevant attributes to it.
That aside, I still hold The Witcher as one of the best RPGs released in years, because of the story and the game play it provides, but the game isn't for every one, especially if one can't abstract from, or tolerate such issues as, sexual content. That's one reason the game is rated 18+.
The game is not realistic in any manner to begin with (a mutated monster hunter in a fictive game world), so expecting realism in select (and in real life, immensely complex) situations is pointless and a tad naive in my book.

(These was also the first time I've seen the US versions of the images though, and yeah - they're censured somewhat indeed from the European release that I play(ed). )

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:10 am

I was using "realistic" in a way to describe that most clerics in most worlds won't react that way.
If the portraits I saw were used as "trophies" for Geralt to collect and the game makes it clear that this is the whole intent, I have no qualms with it. I didn't really knew the context.
Anyway, I fully anticipate to play the game once my rig gets its much needed upgrade. It's an old boy, but he serves faithfully. *taps PC on the imaginary head.*

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:09 am

I assume CD Projekt intent to use the cards to attract testosterone-laden 17-year-olds? Just guessing.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:12 am

Now what would THEY do with those cards?

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:38 am

Remember how gamers ogle at Lara's body when Tomb Raider first came out? I wouldn't be surprised if it's the case here.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:39 am

Yes, she had remarkebly long hair...

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:15 am

GawainBS wrote:I was using "realistic" in a way to describe that most clerics in most worlds won't react that way.
If the portraits I saw were used as "trophies" for Geralt to collect and the game makes it clear that this is the whole intent, I have no qualms with it. I didn't really knew the context.
Anyway, I fully anticipate to play the game once my rig gets its much needed upgrade. It's an old boy, but he serves faithfully. *taps PC on the imaginary head.*

They are trophy cards indeed.

However - your discussion topic is an interesting one in a more broad context though, and there have also been much debate (just look through some of the other threads

) about the portraying of women in The Witcher as well.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:37 am

If that's the way women are treated in this world, then that's the way it is. In general, I just find it highly unlikely (Unlikely, mind you, not unpleasant

) to run across a princes who sits spread eagled before you.
As long as the game makes it clear that it's some kind of irony/parody/hyperbole on the genre, I don't see the problem.

swcarter · Post by **swcarter** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:16 pm

GawainBS wrote:As long as the game makes it clear that it's some kind of irony/parody/hyperbole on the genre, I don't see the problem.

That's not what the game is doing. You really should read the 12 page (and growing) [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/the-witcher-94/s-like-group-d-d-high-school-virgins-93581.html"]"high school virgins"[/url] thread.

Btw, if you think the cards are bad, realize that the ones we show are the censored version.

SWC

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:28 pm

Well, then this seems a little immature of the developers...
I tried reading that 12-page thread once, but I quit at the point someone swooned because he read the word "dick". I didn't stop because of the word, but because people had problems with it.

Lemmus · Post by **Lemmus** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:29 pm

The portrayal of women in the Witcher isn't exactly immature. It's just that the whole world (both in the books, as in the game) is unswervingly brutal. Think about the Dark Ages (pre-Holy Roman Empire & Magna Carta) as they really were, not as they're commonly portrayed. Now throw in magic that humans neither control nor understand, an area trying to recover from a war, various non-human rebel groups, and sundry monsters and you start to get the idea.

Racism, bigotry, and misogyny are a big part of the world. No one trust anyone or anything different, your character included. While Geralt certainly courts women solely for sex, he also treats them as equals in conversation, which is something that no one else in the world seems to do. I agree that the cards themselves are a bit silly, but the rest of the way sex is treated in the game makes sense within the world view.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:09 am

Lemmus wrote:The portrayal of women in the Witcher isn't exactly immature. It's just that the whole world (both in the books, as in the game) is unswervingly brutal. Think about the Dark Ages (pre-Holy Roman Empire & Magna Carta) as they really were, not as they're commonly portrayed. Now throw in magic that humans neither control nor understand, an area trying to recover from a war, various non-human rebel groups, and sundry monsters and you start to get the idea.

Racism, bigotry, and misogyny are a big part of the world. No one trust anyone or anything different, your character included. While Geralt certainly courts women solely for sex, he also treats them as equals in conversation, which is something that no one else in the world seems to do. I agree that the cards themselves are a bit silly, but the rest of the way sex is treated in the game makes sense within the world view.

If women are treated like that in that world, like I said, no problem. But, why would a significant part of the women who get treated like that, run around and pose and behave like the one on the cards? Women with no rights and who are prone to being victimised won't be displaying themselves in such a fashion, lest they attract some male with an urge and a need to establish his power and/or dominance over women. (Which sounds like the average guy in that setting.)
Good fantasy is realistic and consequent with itself: People should still react as people, laws of physics apply, and so and. Any of these conditions can be altered without destroying the world's believability, as long as a solid (in-character) reason is provided as to why this isn't.
Here, we see women displaying themselves in a fashion that no sane women would consider in such a setting. This isn't critisism to the setting, but the usage of such portraits in such a setting. Maybe in this setting the Lady of the Lake would behave in this fashion, which is possible, since she is excempt from human behavior, as are the Half-Elf & Elf as far as I know. Also, it's only natural the prostitute tries to get you to bed her. That's her job.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:37 am

GawainBS wrote:If women are treated like that in that world, like I said, no problem. But, why would a significant part of the women who get treated like that, run around and pose and behave like the one on the cards? Women with no rights and who are prone to being victimised won't be displaying themselves in such a fashion, lest they attract some male with an urge and a need to establish his power and/or dominance over women. (Which sounds like the average guy in that setting.)
Good fantasy is realistic and consequent with itself: People should still react as people, laws of physics apply, and so and. Any of these conditions can be altered without destroying the world's believability, as long as a solid (in-character) reason is provided as to why this isn't.
Here, we see women displaying themselves in a fashion that no sane women would consider in such a setting. This isn't critisism to the setting, but the usage of such portraits in such a setting. Maybe in this setting the Lady of the Lake would behave in this fashion, which is possible, since she is excempt from human behavior, as are the Half-Elf & Elf as far as I know. Also, it's only natural the prostitute tries to get you to bed her. That's her job.

Well, to nitpick, but many women do take their clothes off for pictures, acting out in bars and express otherwise "frivolous" behaviour within our real world.
So I fail to see the argument that it isn't "realistic" in a game setting like this.

And especially when the images in question are only trophy cards after a conquest, and not actual "behaviour" in the game. It is just images which are disconnected from the actual game.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:40 am

As far as I know, the general situation of women in our world is quite different from that of women in the Witcher's world. At least in the places where they don't get stoned for taking their clothes off in a bar.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:58 am

GawainBS wrote:As far as I know, the general situation of women in our world is quite different from that of women in the Witcher's world. At least in the places where they don't get stoned for taking their clothes off in a bar.

But it doesn't change the fact that there is million of pictures, movies et al of women taking their clothes off in various situations, thus not making the trophy cards as unrealistic as you attempt to present them as. Or I'm failing to see where you are taking the issue with these images?

So yes, the situation is "different" because - well, one is a computer game in a fictive fantasy universe and the other is real life.
But that doesn't change the fact that the images in The Witcher are merely drawn "trophy cards" which aren't actually a part of the game itself, but are "unlocked" after a sexual encounter in which you see pretty much nothing.

I fail to see the "women do not do that in real life" argument and I actually start to fail to see the issue you are debating, because well... some do as some do in the game - and the game isn't real life and it isn't realistic in many aspects anyway.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:02 am

Xandax wrote:But it doesn't change the fact that there is million of pictures, movies et al of women taking their clothes off in various situations, thus not making the trophy cards as unrealistic as you attempt to present them as. Or I'm failing to see where you are taking the issue with these images?

So yes, the situation is "different" because - well, one is a computer game in a fictive fantasy universe and the other is real life.
But that doesn't change the fact that the images in The Witcher are merely drawn "trophy cards" which aren't actually a part of the game itself, but are "unlocked" after a sexual encounter in which you see pretty much nothing.

I fail to see the "women do not do that in real life" argument and I actually start to fail to see the issue you are debating, because well... some do as some do in the game - and the game isn't real life and it isn't realistic in many aspects anyway.

Hhmmm... So these portraits aren't the ones you see when initiating dialogue with them?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:35 am

No - as said - they are trophy cards you unlock after each sexual encounter (if you choose to pursue it)

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:38 am

Oh, sorry then. I thought those were the portraits used during dialogue and which showed up as trophy card after bedding them. Ok, then I don't see a problem in it.