fable's Q&A on classical music

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:38 am

Craig wrote:I received some music form a friend, by Franz and Helmut Vonlitchen, Nara and Estremoz. I love them. Where can I find more.

And what does E.S Posthumus mean?

That should read Vonlichten, and if you do a Google for Helmut Vonlichten, you will get all the answers you need.

Hardly classical, but they're pretty decent at gaming music and New Age'ish stuff.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Both outside the classical parameters of this thread, Craig. Not that I have any objection to other musical genres--I've played Irish folk accordion, and reviewed jazz in the past--but As Moonbiter suggests, you can google for your answers.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:23 pm

It is? Oh, it does sound orchestral though...probably where the mix up was.

Did Camile Saint-Saens do any more music, or can you recommend anything similar?

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:41 pm

Craig wrote:It is? Oh, it does sound orchestral though...probably where the mix up was.

Did Camile Saint-Saens do any more music, or can you recommend anything similar?

Similar to what of Saint-Saens? He wrote and published well over a hundred works. Do you mean his Danse macabre?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:39 am

Yeah, how'd you guess?

I really don't know much about this stuff!:laugh:

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:16 am

Craig wrote:Yeah, how'd you guess?

I really don't know much about this stuff!:laugh:

I guessed because Danse macabre is Saint-Saens' single most popular work in modern times, probably followed by his Carnival of the Animals. As to not knowing the stuff: well, we all lack a lot of knowledge about a lot of things. The special ones are the people who know nothing about anything, and those we insist should lead us.

But if you're looking for things like Danse macabre, I think you may want to check for The Sorceror's Apprentice, by Paul Dukas. It's a relatively short tone poem, just like Danse macabre, with very catchy themes, bright orchestration and rhythms, and brilliant construction that doesn't thrust itself into your face and demand you notice it. Both of them can be visualized as a sequence of events, so the music can be followed along with ease.

Saint-Saens wrote 4 tone poems, but I don't know that you would like the others. If it's the catchiness you want, I suggest the following:

Reznicek: Donna Diana Overture
Bedrich Smetana: The Moldau
Glinka: Ruslan and Ludmilla Overture
Nielsen: Helios Overture
Bernstein: Candide Overture
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
Borodin: In the Steppes of Central Asia
Hornemann: Aladdin Overture
Grieg: Peer Gynt suites
Berlioz: Roman Carnival Overture

Try those, for starters. You might even find copies to listen to at a local library. Let me know what you like and don't, and I'll attempt more recommendations accordingly--or fall on my sword, if I fail.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:58 am

Bright orchestration and rhythms, and brilliant construction that doesn't thrust itself into your face and demand you notice it.

I'd have said that Danse de la Macabre was fairly dark, and it did thrust it self in your face which made it powerful.

I'll look through your recommendations, and see what I like.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:15 pm

Craig wrote:I'd have said that Danse de la Macabre was fairly dark, and it did thrust it self in your face which made it powerful.

Dark? Interesting characterization. I would have said it was grimly humorous. That was very appropriate in the early Renaissance, by the way, when you could live for 70 years, or die tomorrow, and when "small" epidemics regularly passed through portions of Europe every couple of decades. A early Renaissance folktale like that lying behind Danse macabre was a defense mechanism, as much as anything else, a way of laughing at death, by personifying it.

But if you want dark, let me know.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:28 am

I had no idea it was grimly humorous. I don't listen to it that often, and what I most have stuck in my head is the starting part, which sounds dark to me.

And yes I would like dark, if you have any suggestions.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:04 pm

Craig wrote:I had no idea it was grimly humorous. I don't listen to it that often, and what I most have stuck in my head is the starting part, which sounds dark to me.

The idea of skeletons waltzing in pairs in a graveyard? That's grimly humorous. You want dark? Try looking at newsreels of what's going on at this moment in Sudan. Rape, slaughter, the destruction of tens of thousands of lives. That's dark, that's happening every single day, and it's real.

As for classical music that's dark:

Purcell: Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary
Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6
Faure: Pavane
Schumann: Manfred Overture
Chopin: Piano Sonatas No. 2, 3
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto No. 2
Shostakovich: Symphonies No. 8, 13, 14; Quartets No. 8, 11-15
Beethoven: Coriolan Overture
Mendelssohn: Hebrides Overture

Try those, for starters.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:39 am

Ahh, now I see what you mean. Although I'd say Sudan wasn't dark, but horrible. Dark is walking haunting and creepy.

Thanks for the suggestions

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:24 am

Craig wrote:Ahh, now I see what you mean. Although I'd say Sudan wasn't dark, but horrible. Dark is walking haunting and creepy.

Thanks for the suggestions

No problem. Haunting? If you can enjoy operas, you might try:

Marschner: Der Vampyr
Britten: The Turn of the Screw
Hindemith: Cardillac

These are seriously creepy works.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:35 pm

I'll try and give them a look

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:01 pm

I'm slightly sloshed, but I felt the need to convey this: At 23:30 tonight, Oslo, this tiny little burg of only 450 000 people, opened one of the largest opera houses and classical stages in the world. 30 years of political drivel and a stupendous amount of money burnt, and we've finally reached closure. Coolest moment? When 630 people involved in the building of the place stood on stage in their work-outfits and sang Verdi's "Slave Choir." Yes, I shed a tear. Big ole' softie that I am.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:49 am

Still available to discuss all your classical needs.

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:20 am

I'm considering the christmas shopping list from "dad to dad" so I would like to hear your thoughts on good recordings of the following:

Louis Spohr: I want to buy a good collection of his violin concertos.

Carl Reinecke: Concerto in e-minor for harp

Evaristo Felice Dall'Abaco: Concerti a piu Instrumenti

Hector Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique and Harold en Italie. I'm also purchasing a collection of his overtures.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:37 am

Moonbiter wrote:I'm considering the christmas shopping list from "dad to dad" so I would like to hear your thoughts on good recordings of the following:

Louis Spohr: I want to buy a good collection of his violin concertos.

Carl Reinecke: Concerto in e-minor for harp

Evaristo Felice Dall'Abaco: Concerti a piu Instrumenti

Hector Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique and Harold en Italie. I'm also purchasing a collection of his overtures.

Well, let's see. First, it's truly difficult to find a good collection of Spohr's Violin Concertos. While the concerto repertoire has widened in recent years for violinists, it has done so primarily on the Baroque side, looking back to the Italians and French composers of the 18th century. One collection on cpo has 16 concertos, but is poorly performed in a sketchy, limp manner by Ulf Hoelscher. It's best avoided. If you don't mind getting only one of his concertos, consider an excellent version by violinist Uto Ughi and I Solisti Veneti on Dynamic 522. It also features the pair of Romances by Beethoven, and a fine concerto by Viotti.

Finally, you can get a pair of Spohr's violin concertos on Marco Polo 223510, a label which discontinued its efforts several years ago to record all of them. While the Bratislava Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra is only so-so, violinist Christiane Edinger is excellent.

I'm not terribly familiar with the Reinecke, but I do remember enjoying a version featuring the late Nicanor Zabaleta. It was warm, committed, and vibrant. That's still available on Deutsche Grammophon 463648, along with the Mozart Fl/Hp Con and the Hp Con of Rodrigo: two good works to have on hand.

Concerning Dall'Abaco, there's not much out there. A recording of his concerti on Teldec 422166 is one I've never heard, but the Concerto Koln, who perform them, is an excellent ensemble whose recordings I have in spades. Some consider them a little jumpy. I think their readings are full of vitality, and they do seem willing to slow down for slow movements, unlike some other "authentic period" groups. But I haven't heard this, so I can't recommend it per se.

Berlioz! Now, plenty to choose from, there. One of the best Harold in Italy recordings that I've heard is on LSO LIVE LSO0040, and features conductor Colin Davis (who has always been excellent in Berlioz, of which he's made a specialty) and Tabea Zimmermann, viola. It has everything the score calls for. If you don't mind analog, however, consider Charles Munch with William Primrose, on RCA 88697: all from the 1950s, and with a few overtures thrown in, too. Munch was another great Berlioz conductor, and there's absolutely nothing routine about any performance he ever gave. When he was off, he was arbitrary and scattered; when he was on, he was a world beater.

There are many fine versions of the Symphonie fantastique out there. Among my favorites are Beecham (EMI 5 67972 2, analog): fastidious, brilliant, energetic, colorful; Munch ( RCA 74321 34168 2, analog): frenzied, incandescent, yet well-shaped and sharply controlled; Rozhdestvensky (Revelation RV 10062): chamber-like in its detail, leisurely, warm and decadent--poor sound, though; Mitropoulos (Urania 342, mono): volcanic, vital. As you can see, I tend to prefer my Berlioz untamed by conductors who think he should sit quietly in a corner, somewhere.

Each to their own.

Hope that helps, in any case.

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:49 pm

Thank you. The funny thing about Buchbinder and the Mozart-collection I bought, is not only the fact that he's a superior piano player, but that the orchestra is in on it in the way they are. Fantastiqe!

Now I'm going to try Buchbinder on "the five" and see if he's as good as this.