Hey, i used to play NWN 1 (no expansion =/...) and i just got NWN 2 + MoTB, and personally i LOVE the fighter class... and i used 2-Weapon fighting... and loved it lol, but for NWN 2 im wondering what would be a good build for fighter class? is it worth going duel wielding? what race would you recommend ( i like human for the extra Feat but..)
my build in NWN 1 (no expansions) was just plain Fighter, with Duel Wielding (and the respected feats) and i put feats into bastard sword... is the bastard sword just as good in NWN 2 as it was in 1?
so does anyone have a good Fighter build to go for NWN 2? (what race/Sub-Class/stats)
im also lookin for a Discussion About fighter builds. (ie. personal prefs/weapons/stats/sub-classes)
Discussion: Fighter Build
Discussion: Fighter Build
0h nz 7h3yz 1n my acc0un7s 5hard1n m3h purplz!!
Category:Character builds - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Notice that most that use fighters do not go past 12 levels..
Thats because they stop once they have Greater Weapon Specialization (which allows for Epic Weapon Specialization).
Of course the one thing Fighters are supremely good at is accumulating FEATS!
(..should be called a FEATer. )
Dual weapons *can* be better in this game than NWN(1). The reason is that you can enchant weapons with various damage modifiers.. and particularly MULTIPLES of damage modifiers at higher character levels, and that with the extra attacks (should they actually *hit*) will increase the overall damage.
On the other "hand" Two-handed weapons can get a LOT better with Improved Power attack and 5 or 10 levels Frenzied Barbarian. (..not necessarily better than a dual weapon character, just a LOT better than NWN (1).)
Finally, a Cleric or Favored Soul can cast the spell Divine Power and achieve the same BAB as a Fighter of the same character level (..though it is time limited and not available for persistent spell inclusion.)
CAUTION:
Two-Weapon Feats are Dexterity sensitive and effectivly REQUIRE that you use a *light* weapon in your off hand (preferably a Kukri):
Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Note that only a Two-Weapon Ranger can "get around" the Dexterity requirement.
Considering the number of attacks vs. the penalty and actually being able to *hit* opponents with those attacks - you should either:
Go for a Ranger to level 21, OR
Stop at Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (..and if you do this then STRONGLY consider the two-handed weapon approach instead), OR
Plan on spending a LOT of your epic feats on Dexterity points.
Also, instead of a bastard sword, consider a Kukri for BOTH hands - this will give you the Weapon Specialization feat bonus damage for BOTH weapons that will eventually out perform a Bastard Sword in your primary hand and a Kukri in your off-hand.
Notice that most that use fighters do not go past 12 levels..
Thats because they stop once they have Greater Weapon Specialization (which allows for Epic Weapon Specialization).
Of course the one thing Fighters are supremely good at is accumulating FEATS!
(..should be called a FEATer. )Dual weapons *can* be better in this game than NWN(1). The reason is that you can enchant weapons with various damage modifiers.. and particularly MULTIPLES of damage modifiers at higher character levels, and that with the extra attacks (should they actually *hit*) will increase the overall damage.
On the other "hand" Two-handed weapons can get a LOT better with Improved Power attack and 5 or 10 levels Frenzied Barbarian. (..not necessarily better than a dual weapon character, just a LOT better than NWN (1).)
Finally, a Cleric or Favored Soul can cast the spell Divine Power and achieve the same BAB as a Fighter of the same character level (..though it is time limited and not available for persistent spell inclusion.)
CAUTION:
Two-Weapon Feats are Dexterity sensitive and effectivly REQUIRE that you use a *light* weapon in your off hand (preferably a Kukri):
Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki
Note that only a Two-Weapon Ranger can "get around" the Dexterity requirement.
Considering the number of attacks vs. the penalty and actually being able to *hit* opponents with those attacks - you should either:
Go for a Ranger to level 21, OR
Stop at Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (..and if you do this then STRONGLY consider the two-handed weapon approach instead), OR
Plan on spending a LOT of your epic feats on Dexterity points.
Also, instead of a bastard sword, consider a Kukri for BOTH hands - this will give you the Weapon Specialization feat bonus damage for BOTH weapons that will eventually out perform a Bastard Sword in your primary hand and a Kukri in your off-hand.
A Tiefling seems to be the best race for a two-weapon build.
No penalty to either Strength or Constitution and the necessary bonus to Dexterity.
Starting attributes:16/18/16/10/10/6
All attribute increases in Dexterity until character level 20.
Level 21 - Feat Greater Dexterity,
Level 22 - Feat Greater Dexterity,
Level 23 - Feat Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting..
No penalty to either Strength or Constitution and the necessary bonus to Dexterity.
Starting attributes:16/18/16/10/10/6
All attribute increases in Dexterity until character level 20.
Level 21 - Feat Greater Dexterity,
Level 22 - Feat Greater Dexterity,
Level 23 - Feat Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting..
-because it hoses your other attributes, at the expense of saves, hit-points, skill points, and/or the ability to carry much of anything and add damage to each attack to overcome some particularly damage resistant opponents. Also, there is the matter of attribute prerequisites for certain feats.kyle wrote:Why not a Tiefling or Air Genasi starting with a 20 in dex? By 21st level you're able to pick up perfect two weapon fighting, no waste of epic extra feats on dex bonuses. I'd recommend on top of that, going with weapon finesse and dual kukris, but that's just me.
Weapon Finesse is of course something to consider given the high Dexterity.-
Lady Morgana
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Here is a build I designed:
Defensive Master (Fighter 10/Shadowdancer10/Duelist 7/Monk 3)
Race: Air Genasi
Alignment: Pure Evil
OC 1-30
A TWF Parrying Hipster with 14 attacks and self hasting to 16. A whole lotta parries/round. But not totally dependent on parrying. Similar to a version of the kama no kaze but I like the increased skills for OCing (int 16) and less offense (no F12/M11) but more defense (epic dodge shadow evasion hips)
Advantages
Loads of Defense
Unconventional
Lots of Skills
Disadvantages
Struggles Offensively at first
Base Attributes
STR 9 (take 2 pts out of wisdom and add 4 points to str if you are leveling all up from level 1)
DEX 19
CON 10
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 6
Final Level Distribution
Fighter 10
Monk 3
Shadowdancer 10
Duelist 7
Attribute Bonuses
4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 increase DEX
Leveling Guide and Feat Distribution
Level 1: Monk 1: Able Learner, Wild child, {Flurry, Improved unarmed strike, Stunning fist}
Level 2: Fighter 1: Weapon Finesse*
Level 3: Fighter 2: WF: Kama*, Dodge
Level 4: Fighter 3
Level 5: Fighter 4: WS: Kama*
Level 6: Monk 2: Mobility, {Evasion, Deflect arrows}
Level 7: Monk 3: {Still mind, Fast Movement}
Level 8: Shadowdancer 1: {HIPS}
Level 9: Shadowdancer 2: TWF, {Darkvision, Uncanny dodge}
Level 10: Duelist 1: {Canny Defense}
Level 11: Duelist 2: {Improved Reaction x 1}
Level 12: Duelist 3: ITWF, {Enhanced Mobility}
Level 13: Duelist 4: {Grace, Improved Reaction x 2}
Level 14: Duelist 5
Level 15: Fighter 5: GTWF
Level 16: Duelist 6: {Flourish, Improved Reaction x 3}
Level 17: Fighter 6: Combat Expertise*
Level 18: Duelist 7: Improved Parry, {Elaborate Parry}
Level 19: Shadowdancer 3: {Shadow Daze, Summon Shadow}
Level 20: Shadowdancer 4: {Shadow Evade}
Level 21: Shadowdancer 5: Epic Prowess, {Defensive Roll, Improved Uncanny Dodge}
Level 22: Fighter 7
Level 23: Shadowdancer 6: Combat Insight
Level 24: Shadowdancer 7: {Slippery Mind}
Level 25: Shadowdancer 8: PTWF
Level 26: Shadowdancer 9
Level 27: Shadowdancer 10: Epic Dodge, {Improved Evasion}
Level 28: Fighter 8: Greater WF kama*
Level 29: Fighter 9: Expose Weakness
Level 30: Fighter 10: Epic WF kama*
TWF = Two Weapon Fighting, ITWF = Improved TWF, GTWF = Greater TWF, PTWF = Perfect TWF
Final Attributes
STR 9
DEX 26
CON 10
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 6
BAB 26
Mundane kama
Main Hand 35 35 30 25 20 15 10 (1d6 +5; crit 20 x2)
Off 35 30 25 20 15 10 5 (1d6 +3; crit 20 x2)
*+7 kama +7 AB/damage
*possibly keen, vampiric, elemental, or holy avenger for example
*+8 int item gives +4 damage main(hand) +2 damage off(hand)
*+8 dex item gives +4 AB
*HIPS in and strike then parry until cooldown
AC 26 naked
AC 60 (+7 robes, +7 natural armor, +5 dodge boots, +8 int item, +8 dex item, +7 deflection)
AC 64 (if you slide in +8 wis AND the aforementioned natural armor somehow)
Can Parry 14 attacks per round with chance of riposte (more hasted)
Also Epic Dodge
Also Shadow Evasion
Also HIPS
Final Saves
Fortitude 15 (18 spells)
Reflex 28 (31 spells; improved evasion)* higher with dex item
Will 13 (16 spells; slippery mind)* higher with wis item
Hitpoints: 274
Skillpoints: 231
Diplomacy 33 (31)
Hide 33 (42)
Move Silently 33 (42)
Parry 33 (48)
Set Trap 5 (13)
Spellcraft 15 (18)
Spot 33 (35)
Tumble 30 (39)
UMD 16 (14)
Skillpoint Distribution
Level 1: Di 4, Hi 4, Ms 4, Pa 4, Sp 4, Tu 4, Save 4
Level 2: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 3: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 2
Level 4: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 1
Level 5: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 6: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 1
Level 7: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 2
Level 8: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 5, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 9: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 10: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 11: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 12: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 4
Level 13: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 4
Level 14: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 5
Level 15: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 16: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 4
Level 17: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 2
Level 18: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 3
Level 19: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 3
Level 20: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 3
Level 21: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 2, Save 1
Level 22: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 23: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 2, Save 1
Level 24: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 25: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, UMD 1,Tu 1, Save 5
Level 26: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 3, Tu 1, Save 5
Level 27: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, St 1, Tu 1, UMD 1, Save 5
Level 28: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Save 5
Level 29: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, UMD 1, Save 4
Level 30: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, St 4
Defensive Master (Fighter 10/Shadowdancer10/Duelist 7/Monk 3)
Race: Air Genasi
Alignment: Pure Evil
OC 1-30
A TWF Parrying Hipster with 14 attacks and self hasting to 16. A whole lotta parries/round. But not totally dependent on parrying. Similar to a version of the kama no kaze but I like the increased skills for OCing (int 16) and less offense (no F12/M11) but more defense (epic dodge shadow evasion hips)
Advantages
Loads of Defense
Unconventional
Lots of Skills
Disadvantages
Struggles Offensively at first
Base Attributes
STR 9 (take 2 pts out of wisdom and add 4 points to str if you are leveling all up from level 1)
DEX 19
CON 10
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 6
Final Level Distribution
Fighter 10
Monk 3
Shadowdancer 10
Duelist 7
Attribute Bonuses
4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 increase DEX
Leveling Guide and Feat Distribution
Level 1: Monk 1: Able Learner, Wild child, {Flurry, Improved unarmed strike, Stunning fist}
Level 2: Fighter 1: Weapon Finesse*
Level 3: Fighter 2: WF: Kama*, Dodge
Level 4: Fighter 3
Level 5: Fighter 4: WS: Kama*
Level 6: Monk 2: Mobility, {Evasion, Deflect arrows}
Level 7: Monk 3: {Still mind, Fast Movement}
Level 8: Shadowdancer 1: {HIPS}
Level 9: Shadowdancer 2: TWF, {Darkvision, Uncanny dodge}
Level 10: Duelist 1: {Canny Defense}
Level 11: Duelist 2: {Improved Reaction x 1}
Level 12: Duelist 3: ITWF, {Enhanced Mobility}
Level 13: Duelist 4: {Grace, Improved Reaction x 2}
Level 14: Duelist 5
Level 15: Fighter 5: GTWF
Level 16: Duelist 6: {Flourish, Improved Reaction x 3}
Level 17: Fighter 6: Combat Expertise*
Level 18: Duelist 7: Improved Parry, {Elaborate Parry}
Level 19: Shadowdancer 3: {Shadow Daze, Summon Shadow}
Level 20: Shadowdancer 4: {Shadow Evade}
Level 21: Shadowdancer 5: Epic Prowess, {Defensive Roll, Improved Uncanny Dodge}
Level 22: Fighter 7
Level 23: Shadowdancer 6: Combat Insight
Level 24: Shadowdancer 7: {Slippery Mind}
Level 25: Shadowdancer 8: PTWF
Level 26: Shadowdancer 9
Level 27: Shadowdancer 10: Epic Dodge, {Improved Evasion}
Level 28: Fighter 8: Greater WF kama*
Level 29: Fighter 9: Expose Weakness
Level 30: Fighter 10: Epic WF kama*
TWF = Two Weapon Fighting, ITWF = Improved TWF, GTWF = Greater TWF, PTWF = Perfect TWF
Final Attributes
STR 9
DEX 26
CON 10
INT 16
WIS 14
CHA 6
BAB 26
Mundane kama
Main Hand 35 35 30 25 20 15 10 (1d6 +5; crit 20 x2)
Off 35 30 25 20 15 10 5 (1d6 +3; crit 20 x2)
*+7 kama +7 AB/damage
*possibly keen, vampiric, elemental, or holy avenger for example
*+8 int item gives +4 damage main(hand) +2 damage off(hand)
*+8 dex item gives +4 AB
*HIPS in and strike then parry until cooldown
AC 26 naked
AC 60 (+7 robes, +7 natural armor, +5 dodge boots, +8 int item, +8 dex item, +7 deflection)
AC 64 (if you slide in +8 wis AND the aforementioned natural armor somehow)
Can Parry 14 attacks per round with chance of riposte (more hasted)
Also Epic Dodge
Also Shadow Evasion
Also HIPS
Final Saves
Fortitude 15 (18 spells)
Reflex 28 (31 spells; improved evasion)* higher with dex item
Will 13 (16 spells; slippery mind)* higher with wis item
Hitpoints: 274
Skillpoints: 231
Diplomacy 33 (31)
Hide 33 (42)
Move Silently 33 (42)
Parry 33 (48)
Set Trap 5 (13)
Spellcraft 15 (18)
Spot 33 (35)
Tumble 30 (39)
UMD 16 (14)
Skillpoint Distribution
Level 1: Di 4, Hi 4, Ms 4, Pa 4, Sp 4, Tu 4, Save 4
Level 2: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 3: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 2
Level 4: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 1
Level 5: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 6: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 1
Level 7: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 2
Level 8: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 5, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 9: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 10: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 11: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 12: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 4
Level 13: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 4
Level 14: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 5
Level 15: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 16: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 4
Level 17: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 2
Level 18: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 3
Level 19: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 3
Level 20: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 3
Level 21: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 2, Save 1
Level 22: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 23: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, UMD 2, Save 1
Level 24: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, Save 3
Level 25: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, UMD 1,Tu 1, Save 5
Level 26: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 3, Tu 1, Save 5
Level 27: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sc 1, Sp 1, St 1, Tu 1, UMD 1, Save 5
Level 28: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, Save 5
Level 29: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, Sp 1, UMD 1, Save 4
Level 30: Di 1, Hi 1, MS 1, Pa 1, St 4
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Here's a strength based figher I made:
Smash 'Em Rogue (Fighter 12/Rogue 2/Assassin 8/FB 8)
Race: Tiefling
Alignment: Non Lawful Evil
OC 1-30
God: No god
I didn't find many other high AB non-duelwielding build. I'll link a duelwielder for comparison, but that is a DW and doesn't have frenzied berserker. Dirty Fighter.
Advantages
4d6 Death Attack 1d6 sneak 3/2/2 attacks during frenzy so 3 DAs in first segment
Great Frenzy and Supreme Cleave
Full Stealth and HIPs
Rogue Lock and Traps Handling
Decent (but not tops) AB via fighter
Damage Sneak Immunes via Enhanced/Improved Power attack + Epic Weapon Specialization
Disadvantages
Frenzy is not so great with the +12 cap to str boosts (does stack with bulls strength/belt)
Not greatest saves
AC could be better
Missing some useful skills but you can drop the lock/traps and get em
Base Attributes
STR 18
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 8
CHA 6
Final Level Distribution
Rogue 2
Fighter 12
Assassin 8
Frenzied Berserker 8
Attribute Bonuses
4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 increase STR
Leveling Guide and Feat Distribution
Level 1: Rogue 1: Bully, Able Learner
Level 2: Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (Scimitar)*, {Tower Shield}
Level 3: Fighter 2: Power Attack, Cleave*
Level 4: Fighter 3
Level 5: Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)*
Level 6: Assassin 1: Blindfight, {Use Poison}
Level 7: Assassin 2: {Uncanny Dodge, Ghostly Visage, Poison Save I}
Level 8: Assassin 3
Level 9: Assassin 4: Great Cleave, {Poison Save II}
Level 10: FB 1: {Toughness, Frenzy}
Level 11: Assassin 5: {Improved Uncanny Dodge, Darkness}
Level 12: Assassin 6: Extra Rage, {Poison Save III}
Level 13: Assassin 7: {Invisibility}
Level 14: Assassin 8: {HIPS, Poison Save IV}
Level 15: FB 2: Extended Rage, {Supreme Cleave}
Level 16: FB 3: {Frenzy 2}
Level 17: FB 4: {Deathless Frenzy}
Level 18: FB 5: Improved Power Attack, {Frenzy 3, Enhanced Power Attack}
Level 19: Rogue 2: {Evasion}
Level 20: Fighter 5
Level 21: Fighter 6: Epic Prowess*, Great Strength I
Level 22: Fighter 7
Level 23: Fighter 8: Greater Weapon Focus (Scimitar)*, Epic Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Level 24: Fighter 9
Level 25: Fighter 10: Expose Weakness*, Armor Skin
Level 26: Fighter 11
Level 27: Fighter 12: Greater Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)*, EWS (Scimitar)
Level 28: FB 6: {Inspire Frenzy I}
Level 29: FB 7: Epic Toughness, {Frenzy IV}
Level 30: FB 8: {Inspire Frenzy II, Great Frenzy}
Take more Great Strengths if you wish. You can take 3 and lose two of: Expose Weakness, Armor Skin, Epic Toughness, EWS or take 5 and lose all those feats. So you can be a nuanced moderately strong warrior or a 30 strength less feat warrior or in between. I would take 3 GS and lose Epic Toughness and EWS personally. Another option is to take only 5 levels of FB and pick up an extra 1 of those feats by taking 1 rogue and 2 more fighter levels.
Final Attributes
STR 26
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 8
BAB 27
40/35/30/25/20/15 (mundane scimitar)
* +7 scimitar with elemental, keen, holy, whatever
* +8 str belt for another 4 AB
* frenzy if no access to str belt for 1 extra attack, +10 str, and damage to him each round (6)
Damage (presenting mundane stats) crit 17-20 x2
1d6 + 14 scimitar and shield
1d6 + 18 scimitar
1d6 + 19 scimitar and shield PA
1d6 + 28 scimitar PA
1d6 + 24 scimitar and shield IPA
1d6 + 38 scimitar IPA
*+7 scimitar with keen, element, holy, whatever
* +8 str belt
* total +12 str while frenzying (or 10 if no belt/bulls)
* additional damage due to death- (4d6) and sneak- (1d6) attacks: avg damage 17.5 per hit
AC 15 naked
18 studded leather
19 studded leather and small shield
20 mithril breastplate
22 mithril breastplate and mithril heavy shield
Other potential bonuses: +7 dodge boots (if available to class), +7 deflection ring, +8 dex for a bonus of 2 AC wearing mithril breastplate, +7 armor, +7 nat ammy, +7 shield
Top AC (with all that): 59
Also a HIPster if in a mess.
Final Saves
Fortitude 18
Reflex 17
Will 7
+1 from Spellcraft Vs Spells
Hitpoints: 366
Skillpoints: 211
Disable Device 33, Hide 33, Move Silently 33, Open Lock 33, Spellcraft 5, Search 33, Spot 21, Set Trap 4, Tumble 10, Use Magic Device 4
Skillpoint Distribution
Level 1: Dd 4, Hi 4, Ms 4, Ol 4, Sc 2[xclass], Se 4, Sp 4, St 4, Tu 4, UMD 4, save 4
Level 2: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, save 2
Level 3: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 4: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 5: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 6: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Tu 2
Level 7: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Tu 2
Level 8: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sc 2
Level 9: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sc 1, Sp 1
Level 10: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 11: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 12: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 13: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 14: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 15: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 16: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 17: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 18: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 19: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 6
Level 20: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 21: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 22: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 23: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 24: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 25: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 26: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 27: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 28: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 29: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 30: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Smash 'Em Rogue (Fighter 12/Rogue 2/Assassin 8/FB 8)
Race: Tiefling
Alignment: Non Lawful Evil
OC 1-30
God: No god
I didn't find many other high AB non-duelwielding build. I'll link a duelwielder for comparison, but that is a DW and doesn't have frenzied berserker. Dirty Fighter.
Advantages
4d6 Death Attack 1d6 sneak 3/2/2 attacks during frenzy so 3 DAs in first segment
Great Frenzy and Supreme Cleave
Full Stealth and HIPs
Rogue Lock and Traps Handling
Decent (but not tops) AB via fighter
Damage Sneak Immunes via Enhanced/Improved Power attack + Epic Weapon Specialization
Disadvantages
Frenzy is not so great with the +12 cap to str boosts (does stack with bulls strength/belt)
Not greatest saves
AC could be better
Missing some useful skills but you can drop the lock/traps and get em
Base Attributes
STR 18
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 8
CHA 6
Final Level Distribution
Rogue 2
Fighter 12
Assassin 8
Frenzied Berserker 8
Attribute Bonuses
4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 increase STR
Leveling Guide and Feat Distribution
Level 1: Rogue 1: Bully, Able Learner
Level 2: Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (Scimitar)*, {Tower Shield}
Level 3: Fighter 2: Power Attack, Cleave*
Level 4: Fighter 3
Level 5: Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)*
Level 6: Assassin 1: Blindfight, {Use Poison}
Level 7: Assassin 2: {Uncanny Dodge, Ghostly Visage, Poison Save I}
Level 8: Assassin 3
Level 9: Assassin 4: Great Cleave, {Poison Save II}
Level 10: FB 1: {Toughness, Frenzy}
Level 11: Assassin 5: {Improved Uncanny Dodge, Darkness}
Level 12: Assassin 6: Extra Rage, {Poison Save III}
Level 13: Assassin 7: {Invisibility}
Level 14: Assassin 8: {HIPS, Poison Save IV}
Level 15: FB 2: Extended Rage, {Supreme Cleave}
Level 16: FB 3: {Frenzy 2}
Level 17: FB 4: {Deathless Frenzy}
Level 18: FB 5: Improved Power Attack, {Frenzy 3, Enhanced Power Attack}
Level 19: Rogue 2: {Evasion}
Level 20: Fighter 5
Level 21: Fighter 6: Epic Prowess*, Great Strength I
Level 22: Fighter 7
Level 23: Fighter 8: Greater Weapon Focus (Scimitar)*, Epic Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Level 24: Fighter 9
Level 25: Fighter 10: Expose Weakness*, Armor Skin
Level 26: Fighter 11
Level 27: Fighter 12: Greater Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)*, EWS (Scimitar)
Level 28: FB 6: {Inspire Frenzy I}
Level 29: FB 7: Epic Toughness, {Frenzy IV}
Level 30: FB 8: {Inspire Frenzy II, Great Frenzy}
Take more Great Strengths if you wish. You can take 3 and lose two of: Expose Weakness, Armor Skin, Epic Toughness, EWS or take 5 and lose all those feats. So you can be a nuanced moderately strong warrior or a 30 strength less feat warrior or in between. I would take 3 GS and lose Epic Toughness and EWS personally. Another option is to take only 5 levels of FB and pick up an extra 1 of those feats by taking 1 rogue and 2 more fighter levels.
Final Attributes
STR 26
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 8
BAB 27
40/35/30/25/20/15 (mundane scimitar)
* +7 scimitar with elemental, keen, holy, whatever
* +8 str belt for another 4 AB
* frenzy if no access to str belt for 1 extra attack, +10 str, and damage to him each round (6)
Damage (presenting mundane stats) crit 17-20 x2
1d6 + 14 scimitar and shield
1d6 + 18 scimitar
1d6 + 19 scimitar and shield PA
1d6 + 28 scimitar PA
1d6 + 24 scimitar and shield IPA
1d6 + 38 scimitar IPA
*+7 scimitar with keen, element, holy, whatever
* +8 str belt
* total +12 str while frenzying (or 10 if no belt/bulls)
* additional damage due to death- (4d6) and sneak- (1d6) attacks: avg damage 17.5 per hit
AC 15 naked
18 studded leather
19 studded leather and small shield
20 mithril breastplate
22 mithril breastplate and mithril heavy shield
Other potential bonuses: +7 dodge boots (if available to class), +7 deflection ring, +8 dex for a bonus of 2 AC wearing mithril breastplate, +7 armor, +7 nat ammy, +7 shield
Top AC (with all that): 59
Also a HIPster if in a mess.
Final Saves
Fortitude 18
Reflex 17
Will 7
+1 from Spellcraft Vs Spells
Hitpoints: 366
Skillpoints: 211
Disable Device 33, Hide 33, Move Silently 33, Open Lock 33, Spellcraft 5, Search 33, Spot 21, Set Trap 4, Tumble 10, Use Magic Device 4
Skillpoint Distribution
Level 1: Dd 4, Hi 4, Ms 4, Ol 4, Sc 2[xclass], Se 4, Sp 4, St 4, Tu 4, UMD 4, save 4
Level 2: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 1, Tu 1, save 2
Level 3: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 1, Tu 1
Level 4: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 5: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 6: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Tu 2
Level 7: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Tu 2
Level 8: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sc 2
Level 9: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sc 1, Sp 1
Level 10: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 11: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 12: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 13: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 14: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 2
Level 15: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 16: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 17: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 18: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 19: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1, Sp 6
Level 20: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 21: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 22: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 23: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 24: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 25: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 26: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 27: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 28: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 29: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Level 30: Dd 1, Hi 1, Ms 1, Ol 1, Se 1
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
So, basically a real blackguard.Claudius wrote:Here's a strength based figher I made:
Smash 'Em Rogue (Fighter 12/Rogue 2/Assassin 8/FB 8)
Note that the paralysis feature of the Assasin's Death Attack is near worthless against tough opponents who have decent fortitude saves.
Also your high strength "blackguard" is missing two feats:
Knockdown and Improved Knockdown.
(..a fantastic combo with HiPS that does not have a traditional "save" calculation.)I've come to realize that "Battle of the Builds" is somehow bugged (by module or character, etc.)
For instance I tried going up against an Iron Sorcerer to see if it would have problems with spell targeting that I had with high level Stealth and/or spells like invisibility. It didn't.
Moreover, not only could it target my character - but it could also do some sort of paralysis effect via Daze of all things WITH a Cowel of Warding on AND the immunity showing up in the round list with of course no "Daze" listed on my character sheet.
Also, Improved Disarm wasn't putting the opponents weapon in my inventory like it should.
I guess bottom line is - If you think you have a build to beat most epic builds and it doesn't seem to turn out that way, well you may well have such a build.
Anyway..
Here is a "beat all" build (that should have hosed the Iron Sorcerer and did hose any other non-high level spell-caster):
The Reaper (a real assassin:mischief :
Fighter 28, Shadow Dancer 1, Ranger 1 (at the end)
20/14/16/12/6/6 Earth Gensai
First attribute increase 1 in Intelligence, the rest Strength.
Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, Parry and Listen (yup - near worthless for the campaigns, though you could decrease Parry in favor of Diplomacy)
Main Feats are: Weapon Focus Scythe, Greater Weapon Focus Scythe, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Disarm, Improved Disarm, Improved Parry (..with a LOT of other feats including Dodge and Mobility needed for the Shadow Dancer class as well as Improved Initiative).
Start with Weapon Focus Scythe and Blooded.
Character level 3 choose the feat: Able Learner.
Epic Feats are: Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Strength X 8, Epic Prowess.
Ending Native strength = 34 (..and of course you should add another +10 to this with the belt of storm giant strength).
The Shadow Dancer class is purely for the HiPS and is obtained around character level 18.
The Ranger is tacked on at character level 30 for a skill point bonus and a very modest bonus to Elves via Favored Enemy Elves - this class neither reduces your Feats nor does it reduce your BAB and because its your final class it doesn't effect your experience point calculation.
....
BUILD PURPOSE:
The whole idea with this build is a character that will Hide most of the time and occasionally attack with a Scythe in a fairly safe manner that will actually *hit* the opponent on at least the first attack of the round.
Have Parry on while hiding until its time to attack, turn it off before you make your first attack. Parry can deflect incoming attacks - even One Shot (..and this despite having a poor AC for this character).
Depending on the opponent:
Magic Caster:
Hide.. First attack = Improved Knock Down.. then kill the lower hit point opponent.
Melee'er:
Hide.. First attack = Improved Disarm, Second attack = Improved Knock Down, a couple more shots and put Parry on, then walk away and hide again. Rinse and repeat until opponent is dead.
Feats you don't need: the Weapon Specialization Feats, Power Attack Feats, Cleave Feats, etc.
Feats you do need - ANYTHING that will enhance your ability to make contact with the opponent, otherwise you are just "whiffing it" and the build is useless. Your ability to Hide provides most of your Defense, with Parry as a backup. The Feats Blooded and Improved Initiative allow your first specialized attack (Disarm or Knockdown) to hit your opponent before it can do anything - think of it as an enhanced defense.
Of course the absurdly high Strength for this character not only means that it will have a high attack score, but also adds significantly to your base physical damage - enough to even overcome most damage resistance. A Red Dragon Disciple route does NOT provide a better BAB and at best would only provide a marginally higher Strength. (..the reason is that an Epic Fighter has a boat-load of Feats to spend on Epic Strength increases, vs a medium BAB for the RDD for 10 levels and a low/no BAB for one level of Sorcerer.)
This Build does NOT use Armor (..that would decrease your hide ability).
Preferred Weapon: Akachie's Scythe.
Using the attack method I've outlined (and barring bugs), it should be able to take down *ANYTHING*.
For instance I tried going up against an Iron Sorcerer to see if it would have problems with spell targeting that I had with high level Stealth and/or spells like invisibility. It didn't.
Moreover, not only could it target my character - but it could also do some sort of paralysis effect via Daze of all things WITH a Cowel of Warding on AND the immunity showing up in the round list with of course no "Daze" listed on my character sheet.
Also, Improved Disarm wasn't putting the opponents weapon in my inventory like it should.
I guess bottom line is - If you think you have a build to beat most epic builds and it doesn't seem to turn out that way, well you may well have such a build.
Anyway..
Here is a "beat all" build (that should have hosed the Iron Sorcerer and did hose any other non-high level spell-caster):
The Reaper (a real assassin:mischief
:Fighter 28, Shadow Dancer 1, Ranger 1 (at the end)
20/14/16/12/6/6 Earth Gensai
First attribute increase 1 in Intelligence, the rest Strength.
Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, Parry and Listen (yup - near worthless for the campaigns, though you could decrease Parry in favor of Diplomacy)
Main Feats are: Weapon Focus Scythe, Greater Weapon Focus Scythe, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Disarm, Improved Disarm, Improved Parry (..with a LOT of other feats including Dodge and Mobility needed for the Shadow Dancer class as well as Improved Initiative).
Start with Weapon Focus Scythe and Blooded.
Character level 3 choose the feat: Able Learner.
Epic Feats are: Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Strength X 8, Epic Prowess.
Ending Native strength = 34 (..and of course you should add another +10 to this with the belt of storm giant strength).
The Shadow Dancer class is purely for the HiPS and is obtained around character level 18.
The Ranger is tacked on at character level 30 for a skill point bonus and a very modest bonus to Elves via Favored Enemy Elves - this class neither reduces your Feats nor does it reduce your BAB and because its your final class it doesn't effect your experience point calculation.
....
BUILD PURPOSE:
The whole idea with this build is a character that will Hide most of the time and occasionally attack with a Scythe in a fairly safe manner that will actually *hit* the opponent on at least the first attack of the round.
Have Parry on while hiding until its time to attack, turn it off before you make your first attack. Parry can deflect incoming attacks - even One Shot (..and this despite having a poor AC for this character).
Depending on the opponent:
Magic Caster:
Hide.. First attack = Improved Knock Down.. then kill the lower hit point opponent.
Melee'er:
Hide.. First attack = Improved Disarm, Second attack = Improved Knock Down, a couple more shots and put Parry on, then walk away and hide again. Rinse and repeat until opponent is dead.
Feats you don't need: the Weapon Specialization Feats, Power Attack Feats, Cleave Feats, etc.
Feats you do need - ANYTHING that will enhance your ability to make contact with the opponent, otherwise you are just "whiffing it" and the build is useless. Your ability to Hide provides most of your Defense, with Parry as a backup. The Feats Blooded and Improved Initiative allow your first specialized attack (Disarm or Knockdown) to hit your opponent before it can do anything - think of it as an enhanced defense.
Of course the absurdly high Strength for this character not only means that it will have a high attack score, but also adds significantly to your base physical damage - enough to even overcome most damage resistance. A Red Dragon Disciple route does NOT provide a better BAB and at best would only provide a marginally higher Strength. (..the reason is that an Epic Fighter has a boat-load of Feats to spend on Epic Strength increases, vs a medium BAB for the RDD for 10 levels and a low/no BAB for one level of Sorcerer.)
This Build does NOT use Armor (..that would decrease your hide ability).
Preferred Weapon: Akachie's Scythe.
Using the attack method I've outlined (and barring bugs), it should be able to take down *ANYTHING*.