Okay. It's been a while since I've felt the urge to kill me some Drow on HoTU (after a quick stop-over to Chap. 2 in the original NWN to get me some of that non-gimped-lookin' Robes of The Dark Moon waitin' for me later) and anywho I'm thinking about a human Monk build that will eventually get Tormed up into an unstoppable killing machine with paired Kamas (7 possible attacks at level 14 with a pure Monk ain't too shabby, I've noticed). I've had the game for several years and this is the first time I've ever multi-classed ANYTHING with the exception of a Druid-Shifter.
Now! What I wanna know from the board is this:
Will I be having as much kill-tastic fun as I think I will?
And what Ability tweaks, if any, would the board recommend to my starting build with the knowledge that I'm primarily in it for the bonus feats of overkill? -
10 Str
16 Dex
14 Con
12 Int
14 Wis
8 Char
Standard Suite of Monk Feats + Dodge & Ambidexterity at 1st level, Two Weapon Fighting at 3rd, Weapon Focus (Kama) at 6th, Weapon Finesse at 9th, going Torm at 10th, getting Mobility at 11th, Spring Attack at 12th (which will allow me to either run into the center of or away from large groups of baddies without fear and wail away with my insane number of attacks while both hasted and with Flurry of Blows active), then Improved Two Weapon Fighting at 13, and finally Improved Critical (Kama) at 15.
Edit: I plan on splitting my 3 bonus Ability Points. First 2 to Wisdom and then one to Dexterity, and then later a second to Dex and then two more to Wis and basically going back and forth until lvl 40.
Edit-Edit: Jeezum Crow! I've just experimented and I must say, I miscounted the numbers of bonus feats I'd get. Heh! I got one more. Forget what I spent it on, was too excited! I'm rather pleased with the results, I don't mind telling you. Granted, my low Char score made some of the Paladin-like powers of the Champion of Torm class moot, but a good Nymph cloak can fix that and I managed to dispatch the initial raiding party before the Undermountain elevator handily and with nary a scratch as I punched, stun, and knocked over opponents like a berzerker. Found out later, with paired Kamas, I am going to be even deadlier!
Asking the Board: Warrior Monk of Torm?
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Etherial
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Asking the Board: Warrior Monk of Torm?
Itch. It itches to feel you cleave to the song of my mettle,
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
-
Etherial
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:40 pm
- Location: Ye Olde Foothills of Yon California
- Contact:
Actually, not that I'm thinking about it, I'm not entirely sure a Monk-fighter wouldn't be better. I mean, Fighters get a better selection of Feats, have no annoying requirements and, well, don't require much in the way of Charisma for anything.
Itch. It itches to feel you cleave to the song of my mettle,
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
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Etherial
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:40 pm
- Location: Ye Olde Foothills of Yon California
- Contact:
Actually, no, the CoT Prestige class IS better considering the saving throw bonuses (you become, for practical purposes, immune to magic and traps) AND those Nymph cloaks that you find on occasion do help out with the Lay On Hands ability in terms of destroying the Undead and augmenting the ither Pally-like abilities of this Prestige Class.
However! That being said, the emphasis is still on straight-up bashing things to death and with the bonus attacks and attack rating bonuses the Monk levels give to using Kamas on the primary hand? I enjoy the amount of killing I can unleash in a very short amount of time. Especially with a keen Enseric the Shortsword on the off-hand and Increased Critical feats for both Kama and Shortsword.
However! That being said, the emphasis is still on straight-up bashing things to death and with the bonus attacks and attack rating bonuses the Monk levels give to using Kamas on the primary hand? I enjoy the amount of killing I can unleash in a very short amount of time. Especially with a keen Enseric the Shortsword on the off-hand and Increased Critical feats for both Kama and Shortsword.
Itch. It itches to feel you cleave to the song of my mettle,
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
I would get Finesse a lot earlier than 9th lvl, but since you're starting in HotU, it doesn't matter really.
I'd also drop Mobility and Spring Attack, unless you're dead-set on Whirlwind Attack. As a Monk, your Tumble skill should be maxed (extra AC) and thus AoO's wouldn't be a problem, hence Spring Attack and Mobility are useless.
It *might* be worth it to get a lvl or two of Paladin, for Divine Grace, and raise your CHA somewhat. (Mainly via items.)
I'd also drop Mobility and Spring Attack, unless you're dead-set on Whirlwind Attack. As a Monk, your Tumble skill should be maxed (extra AC) and thus AoO's wouldn't be a problem, hence Spring Attack and Mobility are useless.
It *might* be worth it to get a lvl or two of Paladin, for Divine Grace, and raise your CHA somewhat. (Mainly via items.)
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Etherial
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:40 pm
- Location: Ye Olde Foothills of Yon California
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Hrmn, that is a good point and is worth looking into. Perhaps instead of Mobility and Spring Attack go with... Toughness and Weapon Focus with the Shortsword, and... if memory serves on amount of Feats I get... Power Attack for Great Cleave? Yeah, that might be a better build. Thanks.
As for Tri-Classing? Blech. No way to really avoid exp-penalties on that path, which is something that irks me to no end. Besides, the Monk class levels already give immunity to the more common Fortitude-based ailments while Amulets of Health protect against the less comon Fortitude-based attacks. By focusing on Dex and Wis I find my AC and Reflex/Will saving throws are truly epic in their levels and their effectiveness.
As for Tri-Classing? Blech. No way to really avoid exp-penalties on that path, which is something that irks me to no end. Besides, the Monk class levels already give immunity to the more common Fortitude-based ailments while Amulets of Health protect against the less comon Fortitude-based attacks. By focusing on Dex and Wis I find my AC and Reflex/Will saving throws are truly epic in their levels and their effectiveness.
Itch. It itches to feel you cleave to the song of my mettle,
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
Stay away from the Shortsword, it isn't a monk weapon.
With Monk/Paladin, you're only multiclassing in two classes. Champion of Torm is a Prestige Class and doesn't count for XP penalties.
Also remember that three levels of paladin give Turn Undead, which opens Divine feats.
I would also take at least 13 STR, so you can get Power Attack. It's rather a must if you decide to go the Dex-route.
With Monk/Paladin, you're only multiclassing in two classes. Champion of Torm is a Prestige Class and doesn't count for XP penalties.
Also remember that three levels of paladin give Turn Undead, which opens Divine feats.
I would also take at least 13 STR, so you can get Power Attack. It's rather a must if you decide to go the Dex-route.
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Etherial
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:40 pm
- Location: Ye Olde Foothills of Yon California
- Contact:
14 Str
16 Dex
14 Con
14 Wis
10 Int
8 Cha
1st Level Ambidexterity and Toughness and standard suite of Monk Feats, Deflect Arrows and Still Mind at 2nd, Monk Speed and Weapon Finesse at 3rd, Purity and Wholeness of Body at 5th, Knockdown/Imp. Knockdown and Power Attack at 6th (useful for bashing stubborn doors and chests), Imp. Evasion and Weapon Focus (Kama) at 9th, Ki Strike +1 at 10th (and finally getting my Base Attack Rating to +7), going Torm at 11th and with it getting Lay on Hands, Sacred Defense and Two-Weapon Fighting and Imp. Critical (Kama) at 12th, Smite Evil at 13th, Imp. Two-Weapon Fighting at 14th, Divine Wrath and Great Cleave at 15th.
This set-up has been tested and I really do like it even though the low Charisma kind of undercuts the usefulness of the Pally-like abilities of the Champion of Torm Prestige class but these deficiencies are often times rendered moot by the Monk levels and abilities.
With Wholeness of Body able to nigh-instantly heal 20 points without the cost of a Potion or Healing Kit I off-set the suckiness of the Warrior Monk's Lay on Hands ability.
Without at least a Nymph Cloak +6 which is ungodly expensive the Divine Wrath is more or less worthless as it lasts only one round minimum, but! the attack bonuses given by the Monk levels in relation to the Kama more than make up for this while the Wrath Ability, diminished though it is, gives you a very temporary edge in early combat against the nastier things you'll find in the Underdark.
With a Kama in the Primary Hand and a light weapon of any type (I can wield) in the Off-Hand, I get up to 6 attacks per combat round with very little attack rating degradation between them (-2/-2). While other classes suffer a -5 rating penalty to every successive attack after the first (example: 15/10/5/0) unarmed Monks, or Monks with a Kama in the Primary Hand suffer only a -3 in both hands (example: 15/12/9/6). This lesser attack rate penalty carries on EVEN if the Off-Hand weapon isn't a Kama!
This fact is quite nice because I'll have access to the shortsword, a light weapon which I can invest a couple of feats into to up the attack rating and increase the Critical Threat with a Keen weapon to 15-20. Combine this with Vampiric Regeneration and you'll see why I'm so fond of Enserric in HoTU.
As for Divine Feats... mmmmh-meh. Using a Halls of Advanced Training module I found that, even with a Nymph Cloak +12 (which is something you'll never find in HoTU) giving me some useful Cha-based saving throws I was better off relying on those extra feats the Torm class gave and/or the abilities higher Monk levels gave. I managed to get rid of four Liches with three quarters of my HP gone towards the end... which is better than the two times I died with Pally levels diluting things like number and efficacy of Kama attacks per level and how quickly I could rush in and overwhelm each of the powerful undead spell casters.
Not to mention... a Cloak of Fortification +3 kind of gives me the saving throw bonuses Divine Grace would have anyway while freeing up a finger for a special ring... and it costs less.
16 Dex
14 Con
14 Wis
10 Int
8 Cha
1st Level Ambidexterity and Toughness and standard suite of Monk Feats, Deflect Arrows and Still Mind at 2nd, Monk Speed and Weapon Finesse at 3rd, Purity and Wholeness of Body at 5th, Knockdown/Imp. Knockdown and Power Attack at 6th (useful for bashing stubborn doors and chests), Imp. Evasion and Weapon Focus (Kama) at 9th, Ki Strike +1 at 10th (and finally getting my Base Attack Rating to +7), going Torm at 11th and with it getting Lay on Hands, Sacred Defense and Two-Weapon Fighting and Imp. Critical (Kama) at 12th, Smite Evil at 13th, Imp. Two-Weapon Fighting at 14th, Divine Wrath and Great Cleave at 15th.
This set-up has been tested and I really do like it even though the low Charisma kind of undercuts the usefulness of the Pally-like abilities of the Champion of Torm Prestige class but these deficiencies are often times rendered moot by the Monk levels and abilities.
With Wholeness of Body able to nigh-instantly heal 20 points without the cost of a Potion or Healing Kit I off-set the suckiness of the Warrior Monk's Lay on Hands ability.
Without at least a Nymph Cloak +6 which is ungodly expensive the Divine Wrath is more or less worthless as it lasts only one round minimum, but! the attack bonuses given by the Monk levels in relation to the Kama more than make up for this while the Wrath Ability, diminished though it is, gives you a very temporary edge in early combat against the nastier things you'll find in the Underdark.
With a Kama in the Primary Hand and a light weapon of any type (I can wield) in the Off-Hand, I get up to 6 attacks per combat round with very little attack rating degradation between them (-2/-2). While other classes suffer a -5 rating penalty to every successive attack after the first (example: 15/10/5/0) unarmed Monks, or Monks with a Kama in the Primary Hand suffer only a -3 in both hands (example: 15/12/9/6). This lesser attack rate penalty carries on EVEN if the Off-Hand weapon isn't a Kama!
This fact is quite nice because I'll have access to the shortsword, a light weapon which I can invest a couple of feats into to up the attack rating and increase the Critical Threat with a Keen weapon to 15-20. Combine this with Vampiric Regeneration and you'll see why I'm so fond of Enserric in HoTU.
As for Divine Feats... mmmmh-meh. Using a Halls of Advanced Training module I found that, even with a Nymph Cloak +12 (which is something you'll never find in HoTU) giving me some useful Cha-based saving throws I was better off relying on those extra feats the Torm class gave and/or the abilities higher Monk levels gave. I managed to get rid of four Liches with three quarters of my HP gone towards the end... which is better than the two times I died with Pally levels diluting things like number and efficacy of Kama attacks per level and how quickly I could rush in and overwhelm each of the powerful undead spell casters.
Not to mention... a Cloak of Fortification +3 kind of gives me the saving throw bonuses Divine Grace would have anyway while freeing up a finger for a special ring... and it costs less.
Itch. It itches to feel you cleave to the song of my mettle,
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
I'd take a Kama in my offhand too. They're Light Weapons, and you've already got that Weapon Focus & Improved Critical.
I really think divine feats are worth it. With a Cloak of the Nymph +6 you get 14 Cha, which translates to +2 to all saves, a Smite Evil which stacks with Champion of Torm and is at +2 to hit (and Paladin + Champion to damage), Lay on Hands which is more effective, your Sacred Wrath will last longer and if you activate Divine Power, you get +2 to damage on *every* attack.
Now, should you lower your starting Dex to 14, you've only got 1 less AC and to hit to start out with, and you could use those 4 points to raise CHA to 12. With said Cloak, all those +2 above become +4. Personally, I find this worth the trade-off.
I really think divine feats are worth it. With a Cloak of the Nymph +6 you get 14 Cha, which translates to +2 to all saves, a Smite Evil which stacks with Champion of Torm and is at +2 to hit (and Paladin + Champion to damage), Lay on Hands which is more effective, your Sacred Wrath will last longer and if you activate Divine Power, you get +2 to damage on *every* attack.
Now, should you lower your starting Dex to 14, you've only got 1 less AC and to hit to start out with, and you could use those 4 points to raise CHA to 12. With said Cloak, all those +2 above become +4. Personally, I find this worth the trade-off.
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Etherial
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:40 pm
- Location: Ye Olde Foothills of Yon California
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Ambidexterity requires 15+ Dex, but I would advise you to test your own Warrior Monk of Torm and have fun doing it. I know I have. I gots more Drow to slay and a city to save!
Itch. It itches to feel you cleave to the song of my mettle,
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
-
Etherial
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:40 pm
- Location: Ye Olde Foothills of Yon California
- Contact:
UPDATE!
I'm soloing successfully in the Underdark. 6th Torm level (16th char level) gave me Imp. Critical (Shortsword) and then 3 more Monk levels have turned me into an unstoppable killing machine! 23 SR lets me fear no Beholder's eye beam! 180% movement increase (130% plus 50 due to Robes of The Dark Moon) allow me to bum-rush any spell caster! True Seeing, regeneration, and an upped enhancement bonus of +6 to my Primary Hand weapon (Empty Fields kama) lets me kill with impunity, laughing in the face of spells like Stoneskin, Sanctuary, and any form of Invisibility! With a similarly enhanced (minus the True Seeing) Enserric the Shortsword I tried to single-handedly kick a certain undead dragon's bony butt four times over just because I wanted to see if I could!
AND I COULD! With up to nine attacks at Monk Level 13, Haste, and Flurry of Blows I bitch-slapped that mother all over the cave while an insane AC of 39 kept me dancing around nearly every one of his blows. With weapons in my hand my glove slot was given over to Bracers of Armor +6 while my not supporting a henchman let me afford both THAT and a Cloak of Fortification +5. A found pair of Boots of the Sun Soul +4 gave me an additional +5 to AC, the +4 Dodge Modifier and the +1 given by the additional +2 to Dex the boots give.
The riches allowed me to give both my melee weapons 2d6 Acid Damage enhancements. A nice lil' damage bonus if I do say so myself. It also allowed me to purchase Tansheron's Bow, a nice little something to have if I run into locked, trapped chests and doors.
I'm soloing successfully in the Underdark. 6th Torm level (16th char level) gave me Imp. Critical (Shortsword) and then 3 more Monk levels have turned me into an unstoppable killing machine! 23 SR lets me fear no Beholder's eye beam! 180% movement increase (130% plus 50 due to Robes of The Dark Moon) allow me to bum-rush any spell caster! True Seeing, regeneration, and an upped enhancement bonus of +6 to my Primary Hand weapon (Empty Fields kama) lets me kill with impunity, laughing in the face of spells like Stoneskin, Sanctuary, and any form of Invisibility! With a similarly enhanced (minus the True Seeing) Enserric the Shortsword I tried to single-handedly kick a certain undead dragon's bony butt four times over just because I wanted to see if I could!
AND I COULD! With up to nine attacks at Monk Level 13, Haste, and Flurry of Blows I bitch-slapped that mother all over the cave while an insane AC of 39 kept me dancing around nearly every one of his blows. With weapons in my hand my glove slot was given over to Bracers of Armor +6 while my not supporting a henchman let me afford both THAT and a Cloak of Fortification +5. A found pair of Boots of the Sun Soul +4 gave me an additional +5 to AC, the +4 Dodge Modifier and the +1 given by the additional +2 to Dex the boots give.
The riches allowed me to give both my melee weapons 2d6 Acid Damage enhancements. A nice lil' damage bonus if I do say so myself. It also allowed me to purchase Tansheron's Bow, a nice little something to have if I run into locked, trapped chests and doors.
Itch. It itches to feel you cleave to the song of my mettle,
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important
to yield and surrender in nearly every way;
if not in all the important ways.
~No One Important