Battlemage help please!!

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:10 am

Favored Soul and cleric are both great classes. Cleric has more spell selection, turn undead, and bonus feats at first level (domain). Favored soul has some bonuses too with weapons and energy resistance..plus they cast on the fly. I like both of them although I have never played either so I just don't know.

The thing with those two is they'll crush anything that can't strip their buffs.

Wintersmith81 · Post by **Wintersmith81** » Fri May 16, 2008 5:11 am

Been working on a lvl up mod and playing around with thw battlemage still and the only way of getting autostill is changing Divine Champion with Wizard! You can use a cleric as well but you lose on some feats! I cant seem to make a really good one! Any more idears??

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:47 am

Wintersmith81 wrote:Been working on a lvl up mod and playing around with thw battlemage still and the only way of getting autostill is changing Divine Champion with Wizard! You can use a cleric as well but you lose on some feats! I cant seem to make a really good one! Any more idears??

Again, skip the battlemage and autostill and go with a favored soul 20 (+ whatever).

At least for the OC alone the premise of a battlemage doesn't work out well, for instance:

Fighter 4 (leveling: interleave with wizard)
Wizard 5 (leveling: interleave with fighter)
EK 10

is pretty much the BEST you can do.. but it still doesn't have enough feats for the fighter AND the wizard.. and not enough spell levels for spell damage.

BAB at level 9 = +6 (same as a medium BAB)
BAB at level 19 = +16 (2 more than a medium BAB)

(pitiful hitpoints in comparison to a medium BAB)

Spell level at level 9 = first "string" of 3rd level spells (a pure wizard is starting his first "string" of 5th level spells here)
Spell level at level 19 = 2nd "string" of 7th level spells (a pure wizard is on his 3rd string of 9th level spells)

Don't get me wrong.. its not a "bad" build - it just isn't a good one. Most of your attacks will be melee and most of your magic will be defensive, but you will be able to chuck a few fireballs and some missile storms and *hope* that you will penetrate their spell penetration and they will fail their saves - from about character level 9 - 14 though, I don't think your hopes should be up to high.

Consider also just a Wizard..

Use mostly magical attacks, but at 11th level Tenser's Transformation is available and you can put on your defensive spells like Magic Mirror and Elemental Shield and Displacement - following-up with Tenser's and wade-in an kick melee @ss at a full fighter BAB with excellent stats (though no equipment modifiers).

KaaH · Post by **KaaH** » Fri May 16, 2008 1:54 pm

Drow (need to be evil)
12 FS (Talos)
10 Stormlord (need some bad feats, but should be worth it)
4 Warpriest
4 BG (turning -> (epic)divine might)

Str: 16 -> 22 (need epic feat Str.(3))
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Int: 12(10 possible)
Wis: 12(14 possible)
Cha: 18 -> 22 (or epic feat Cha (3))

Caster Lvl 28 (with practised caster FS)

Wintersmith81 · Post by **Wintersmith81** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:28 am

Scottg why the favored soul over the cleric?

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:10 am

Cleric 8
Stormlord 10
Bard 2
RDD 10
Human
Weapon: Monkey Gripped Spear.

I figure you can't go wrong mixing 4 of the best classes

Wintersmith81 · Post by **Wintersmith81** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:38 am

RDD what is this?

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:43 am

Red Dragon Disciple

You get +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha, +4 Natural Armor, free blindfighting, d12 hit dice

Wintersmith81 · Post by **Wintersmith81** » Sat May 17, 2008 12:07 pm

Looks good! what one would you start with the cleric?

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat May 17, 2008 1:11 pm

I'd start with bard and take Able learner at 1st level. Then I'd grab all the good bard skills like tumble and UMD...just take 3 perform for your inspiration of courage. Able learner is great it allows you to take skills not your class and only pay 1 pt rather than 2. It also removes the caps on all the skills as long as you have at least one class with that skill. So even though you only have 1 bard level you can take tumble 30.

Then 4 cleric
Then I'd take RDD to get the int boost to get more skills plus RDD is fantastic
Then cleric on 15 and 18 to get divine might and shield
Then start on stormlord

1bard 1 able learner (1 more feat if human)
2cleric 1: earth and luck? give toughness and luck of heroes
3cleric 2
4cleric 3 extend spell
5cleric 4 (now you need lore 8 by now for RDD)
6RDD 1 monkey grip
7RDD 2
8RDD 3
9RDD 4 great fortitude
10RDD 5
11RDD 6
12RDD 7 weapon focus spear
13RDD 8 (now you got your INT boost and you get more skills...)
14RDD 9
15cleric 5 divine shield
16RDD 10
17stormlord 1
18cleric 6 divine might
19 stormlord 2
20 stormlord 3
21 stormlord 4 (if you started with 16 str 14 cha and put all level ups into cha you now have 24 str 21 cha) - epic divine might
22 stormlord 5
23 stormlord 6 -feat your choice - epic prowess?
24 stormlord 7
25 stormlord 8-feat your choice- great strength?
26 stormlord 9
27 stormlord 10-feat your choice- great strength?
28 cleric 7
29 cleric 8-feat your choice - great strength?
30 bard 2

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:29 pm

Wintersmith81 wrote:Scottg why the favored soul over the cleric?

Several reasons:

1. Free weapon focus and *weapon specialization*.. something that would otherwise require at least 1 level of Fighter.

2. Very good elemental damage resistance that "builds" with levels. Also nice to throw-in a race that has elemental resistances to *other* types of elemental damage (for a more complete level of resistance).

3. One of the very best damage reduction modifiers in-game at level 20. IMO this is a critical component to an epic character that intends to melee.

4. Sorcerer-like casting. You don't have to think about which spells to have memorized - they are ALL there. This provides quite a bit more variety in actual practice.

5. Charisma (instead of wisdom), enhances most of your dialog interaction skills. Its also a related to Savings Throw modifiers (from Paladins, Warlocks, and Blackguards). Furthermore it is also related to Divine Might, Divine Shield, and the "Smites" (Paladins and Blackguards).

Note that builds based on 12 levels of FS, don't make much sense to me - you aren't getting full value from your Elemental Resistance and (ESPECIALLY), you aren't getting that damage reduction.

There are of course reasons to favor a Cleric over a Favored Soul.. BUT, having played with both (and tweaked both) - the Favored Soul is quite superior in actual game-play.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sat May 17, 2008 3:34 pm

Claudius wrote:I'd start with bard and take Able learner at 1st level. Then I'd grab all the good bard skills like tumble and UMD...just take 3 perform for your inspiration of courage. Able learner is great it allows you to take skills not your class and only pay 1 pt rather than 2. It also removes the caps on all the skills as long as you have at least one class with that skill. So even though you only have 1 bard level you can take tumble 30.

Then 4 cleric
Then I'd take RDD to get the int boost to get more skills plus RDD is fantastic
Then cleric on 15 and 18 to get divine might and shield
Then start on stormlord

1bard 1 able learner (1 more feat if human)
2cleric 1: earth and luck? give toughness and luck of heroes
3cleric 2
4cleric 3 extend spell
5cleric 4 (now you need lore 8 by now for RDD)
6RDD 1 monkey grip
7RDD 2
8RDD 3
9RDD 4 great fortitude
10RDD 5
11RDD 6
12RDD 7 weapon focus spear
13RDD 8 (now you got your INT boost and you get more skills...)
14RDD 9
15cleric 5 divine shield
16RDD 10
17stormlord 1
18cleric 6 divine might
19 stormlord 2
20 stormlord 3
21 stormlord 4 (if you started with 16 str 14 cha and put all level ups into cha you now have 24 str 21 cha) - epic divine might
22 stormlord 5
23 stormlord 6 -feat your choice - epic prowess?
24 stormlord 7
25 stormlord 8-feat your choice- great strength?
26 stormlord 9
27 stormlord 10-feat your choice- great strength?
28 cleric 7
29 cleric 8-feat your choice - great strength?
30 bard 2

Thats not a bad build for MOTB alone.. BUT, its nearly useless for the OC *IF* you want access to a good range of damage spells.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:15 pm

One thing I learned is that theres no perfect build that can do everything! Really I tried to make it! So if you take more melee presence its going to delay and limit your casting ability.

I think you want to nuke things. I would look at Sorceror10/ASoCK10 (ASoCK = arcane scholar of candle keep = kill everything)...then if you want some melee power RDD 10 will give you enough strength so that you can beat some things to a pulp.*

Mixing casting (I mean nuking and disabling...buffing could go along with melee) with melee is on scale power wise for OC relative to other builds but by the time of MoTB I think its better to focus on one or the other.

*Actually your BAB is too low....but maybe Sorceror10/ASoCK10 giving pure power casting then combine that with Favored Soul8Warpriest2 which is another charisma based caster and you can cast divine power raising your BAB to 30 I believe

(combine that with sorcery buffs and you can melee)

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sat May 17, 2008 5:08 pm

Claudius wrote:One thing I learned is that theres no perfect build that can do everything! Really I tried to make it! So if you take more melee presence its going to delay and limit your casting ability.

I think you want to nuke things. I would look at Sorceror10/ASoCK10 (ASoCK = arcane scholar of candle keep = kill everything)...then if you want some melee power RDD 10 will give you enough strength so that you can beat some things to a pulp.

Mixing casting (I mean nuking and disabling...buffing could go along with melee) with melee is on scale power wise for OC relative to other builds but by the time of MoTB I think its better to focus on one or the other.

I completely agree - there is no such thing as a "do-it-all" character, especially not in a 20 level context.

I went back and looked at the StormLord's builds.. No LIKE'E!

Another near useless prestige class IMO. Immunity to electricity is nice, but Storm Avatar gets hosed - 1 time per day? WTF?

I did play around with a Monk/Druid/Sacred Fist (human).. NICE! Combining Sacred Flames with Storm Avatar ROCKS!:laugh: Saves are excellent as well! Within a 20 level restriction though it isn't great at offensive spells.

Owl's Insight works really well here, and premonition is available. And (IMO) Body of the Sun is the best persistent capable spell in the game! (..looks cool too!)

EDIT: Note that there *IS* actually a "do-it-all" character available.. but only at epic levels and only with buffing. (Wizard 25 Cleric 5 with Strength domain.)

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:34 pm

Ah, I retract my displeasure with the Stormlord.. its weapon damage has no time-out. Good class!

I did find something odd though - you can miss-out on a Stormlord's divine spell continuation IF you don't have 3rd level spell casting in your BASE CLASS.

For instance I tried out a Monk/Druid 1/ Sacred Fist 10 - to StormLord. It will let you go to the class StormLord (provided you meet all the other requirements), but as you increase the class your don't get you continuation in Druid spell levels.:speech:

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:40 pm

Thats interesting...of course I see another problem...stormlords get bonus to spears etc but SF takes a -8 AB hit when using weapons..You did take SF spellcasting of the appropriate class right?

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:38 pm

Claudius wrote:Thats interesting...of course I see another problem...stormlords get bonus to spears etc but SF takes a -8 AB hit when using weapons..You did take SF spellcasting of the appropriate class right?

I was playing with the concept of a Shuriken thrower.. seeing what I could get.

Turns out - not much.

You either have Rapid Fire OR Flurry of Blows.. NOT both.

None of this is to say that the character doesn't have worth - its just not nearly as impressive as I had hoped:

Flurry of Blows + Improved Rapid Fire + StormLord Electric & Sonic Damage + Flameweapon (as described in gamebanshee's description). THAT would have been cool.

..and Flameweapon was a disappointment as well - gamebanshee has a description that doesn't even come close to the description currently in-game. Now its only 1d8 of fire damage and 1 round a level.. which sucks!

For the SF - yes, but for the Stormlord it just had 2 feats to the right, (nothing for me to select at the left), with the "next" button active to complete the level-up.

Additionally, both darts and shurikens didn't impose the -8 penalty from the Sacred Fist.

Wintersmith81 · Post by **Wintersmith81** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:32 am

This is sounding cool, i like the sound of the stormlord, but i was thinking what are monks like and can you use weps? Never played as a monk befor!

Ive come to the point that spells like a wiz and fighting wont work but Been thinking of a class that fights like a monk, can buff, maybe use a bow or something like it for range?

I do like the build Claudius did with the StormLord just starting to like the sound of monks now!

Sorry about all the Qs just trying to get my head round this and get the best out of the game and a fun class to play!

Thank you all!

ps...tryed the Claudius build with the Bard, Cleric, RDD and StormLord and i cant get to stormlord and also Divine Shield wont come up for me to pick also at Cleric 2 i can pick a feat not cleric 3! Am i doing something wrong?

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:13 am

I made a mistake on the build. You need power attack for divine shield....so be human and take power attack at first level. Stormlord should come up when you have 3rd level spells (so you need WIS 13 maybe with an item) in cleric. You also must have WF spear, great fortitude, and toughness (I choose earth domain cleric)...

Check all the stormlord requirements on the NWN2 wiki. Maybe they need some lore or something??

Sorry I didn't give you a complete build, rather it is more an idea to work with. You can learn a lot about character building.

Cleric(8), Bard(2), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Stormlord(10)

Race: Human

Cleric Domains: Earth, Luck

Alignment: Not lawful
Deity: -

STR: 14(22)
DEX: 8
CON: 14(16)
WIS: 16(20) * You can also take less Great Wisdom etc and use items to cast spells! +8 Wis ammy
INT: 12(14)
CHA: 14(22)

{Quick To Master, Skilled}

Bonusfeats: &: Stormlord

Lvl 01: Bard(1): Able Learner, Power Attack, {Bardic Knowledge, Inspiration, Inspire Courage, Countersong, Fascinate, Armored Caster (Bard)}
Lvl 02: Cleric(1): {Turn Undead, Spontaneous Conversion, Toughness, Luck of Heroes}
Lvl 03: Cleric(2): Extend Spell
Lvl 04: Cleric(3): CHA+1, (CHA=15)
Lvl 05: Cleric(4)
Lvl 06: Red Dragon Disciple(1): Monkey Grip, {Natural Armor Increase}
Lvl 07: Red Dragon Disciple(2): {Dragon Abilities}, (STR=16)
Lvl 08: Red Dragon Disciple(3): CHA+1, {Dragon Breath}, (CHA=16)
Lvl 09: Red Dragon Disciple(4): Great Fortitude, (STR=18)
Lvl 10: Red Dragon Disciple(5): {Blind-Fight}
Lvl 11: Red Dragon Disciple(6): (CON=16)
Lvl 12: Red Dragon Disciple(7): CHA+1, WF (Spear), (CHA=17)
Lvl 13: Red Dragon Disciple(8): (INT=14)
Lvl 14: Red Dragon Disciple(9)
Lvl 15: Cleric(5): Divine Shield
Lvl 16: Red Dragon Disciple(10): CHA+1, {Darkvision, Immunity To Sleep, Immunity to Paralysis, Immunity to Fire, Racial Spell (See Invisibility)}, (STR=22), (CHA=20)
Lvl 17: Stormlord(1): {Enhanced Stormlord Weapons (+1), Resistance to Electricity 5}
Lvl 18: Cleric(6): Divine Might
Lvl 19: Stormlord(2): {Shock Weapon}
Lvl 20: Stormlord(3): CHA+1, (CHA=21)
Lvl 21: Stormlord(4): Epic Divine Might, {Resistance to Electricity 10}
Lvl 22: Stormlord(5): {Shocking Burst Weapon}
Lvl 23: Stormlord(6): Great Wisdom I, {Enhanced Stormlord Weapons (+2)}, (WIS=17)
Lvl 24: Stormlord(7): WIS+1, {Resistance to Electricity 15}, (WIS=18)
Lvl 25: Stormlord(8): Great Wisdom II, {Shocking Burst and Sonic Weapon}, (WIS=19)
Lvl 26: Stormlord(9): {Enhanced Stormlord Weapons (+3), Immunity to Electricity}
Lvl 27: Stormlord(10): Great Charisma I, {Extended Storm Avatar}, (CHA=22)
Lvl 28: Cleric(7): WIS+1, (WIS=20)
Lvl 29: Cleric(8): Epic Prowess
Lvl 30: Bard(2): {Inspire Competence}

Hitpoints: 396
BAB: 21
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 26/11/29

Skillpoints: 169
Max. Melee AB: 32 (Spear), Max. Ranged AB: 24

Spell Casting: Bard(1), Cleric(4)
Detailed Spell Casting (Level 0-9): Cleric: 6 • 8 • 8 • 7 • 7 • 6 • 6 • 4 • 4 • 3, Bard: 5/3 • 2/2

Sneak Attack:
Alignment Changes: 0

Concentration: 33(36), Diplomacy: 32(38), Lore: 8(12), Perform: 3(9), Spellcraft: 30(32), Tumble: 30(29), Use Magic Device: 33(39)

Lvl 01 (Brd): Concentration 4(4), Diplomacy 4(4), Lore 4(4), Perform 3(3), Spellcraft 4(4), Tumble 4(4), Use Magic Device 4(4), Save 5
Lvl 02 (C): Concentration 1(5), Diplomacy 1(5), Lore 1(5), Spellcraft 1(5), Tumble 1(5), Use Magic Device 1(5), Save 3
Lvl 03 (C): Concentration 1(6), Diplomacy 1(6), Lore 1(6), Tumble 1(6), Use Magic Device 1(6), Save 2
Lvl 04 (C): Concentration 1(7), Diplomacy 1(7), Lore 1(7), Tumble 1(7), Use Magic Device 1(7), Save 1
Lvl 05 (C): Concentration 1(8), Diplomacy 1(8), Lore 1(8), Tumble 1(8), Use Magic Device 1(8)
Lvl 06 (RDD): Concentration 1(9), Diplomacy 1(9), Tumble 1(9), Use Magic Device 1(9)
Lvl 07 (RDD): Concentration 1(10), Diplomacy 1(10), Tumble 1(10), Use Magic Device 1(10)
Lvl 08 (RDD): Concentration 1(11), Diplomacy 1(11), Tumble 1(11), Use Magic Device 1(11)
Lvl 09 (RDD): Concentration 1(12), Diplomacy 1(12), Tumble 1(12), Use Magic Device 1(12)
Lvl 10 (RDD): Concentration 1(13), Diplomacy 1(13), Tumble 1(13), Use Magic Device 1(13)
Lvl 11 (RDD): Concentration 1(14), Diplomacy 1(14), Tumble 1(14), Use Magic Device 1(14)
Lvl 12 (RDD): Concentration 1(15), Diplomacy 1(15), Tumble 1(15), Use Magic Device 1(15)
Lvl 13 (RDD): Concentration 1(16), Diplomacy 1(16), Tumble 1(16), Use Magic Device 1(16)
Lvl 14 (RDD): Concentration 1(17), Diplomacy 1(17), Spellcraft 1(6), Tumble 1(17), Use Magic Device 1(17)
Lvl 15 (C): Concentration 1(18), Diplomacy 1(18), Spellcraft 1(7), Tumble 1(18), Use Magic Device 1(18)
Lvl 16 (RDD): Concentration 1(19), Diplomacy 1(19), Spellcraft 1(8), Tumble 1(19), Use Magic Device 1(19)
Lvl 17 (SL): Concentration 1(20), Diplomacy 1(20), Spellcraft 1(9), Tumble 1(20), Use Magic Device 1(20)
Lvl 18 (C): Concentration 1(21), Diplomacy 1(21), Spellcraft 1(10), Tumble 1(21), Use Magic Device 1(21)
Lvl 19 (SL): Concentration 1(22), Diplomacy 1(22), Spellcraft 1(11), Tumble 1(22), Use Magic Device 1(22)
Lvl 20 (SL): Concentration 1(23), Diplomacy 1(23), Spellcraft 1(12), Tumble 1(23), Use Magic Device 1(23)
Lvl 21 (SL): Concentration 1(24), Diplomacy 1(24), Spellcraft 1(13), Tumble 1(24), Use Magic Device 1(24)
Lvl 22 (SL): Concentration 1(25), Diplomacy 1(25), Spellcraft 1(14), Tumble 1(25), Use Magic Device 1(25)
Lvl 23 (SL): Concentration 1(26), Diplomacy 1(26), Spellcraft 1(15), Tumble 1(26), Use Magic Device 1(26)
Lvl 24 (SL): Concentration 1(27), Diplomacy 1(27), Spellcraft 1(16), Tumble 1(27), Use Magic Device 1(27)
Lvl 25 (SL): Concentration 1(28), Diplomacy 1(28), Spellcraft 1(17), Tumble 1(28), Use Magic Device 1(28)
Lvl 26 (SL): Concentration 1(29), Diplomacy 1(29), Spellcraft 1(18), Tumble 1(29), Use Magic Device 1(29)
Lvl 27 (SL): Concentration 1(30), Diplomacy 1(30), Spellcraft 1(19), Tumble 1(30), Use Magic Device 1(30)
Lvl 28 (C): Concentration 1(31), Diplomacy 1(31), Spellcraft 2(21), Use Magic Device 1(31)
Lvl 29 (C): Concentration 1(32), Diplomacy 1(32), Spellcraft 2(23), Use Magic Device 1(32)
Lvl 30 (Brd): Concentration 1(33), Spellcraft 7(30), Use Magic Device 1(33)

Wintersmith81 · Post by **Wintersmith81** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:15 am

wow thank you for that! will give it a go!
just keep trying to get the right set up for an ace player with a good mix of skills!

Just want the most out of the game really!

Thank you all for your help and if you think of anything more then please let me know!