Mounted character help

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:42 pm

Ive found myself liking more and more the idea of a galiant 'rough rider' storming the open plains on the back of a horse. Now i understand the faults: inability for indoor fighting and such but i still want to know: whats the best class/equipment/armor/tactics for a powerful cavalry type person?

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Class- Well, any melee class works well with it, but I'd suggest a fighter/rogue specializing in a spear like weapon.

Equipment- Barding obviously, you want your horse to survive as much as you.

Armor- Mithral Breastplate. You'll need the armor bonus, but the mithral is essential to not reduce your skills too much.

Tactics- Not sure on that one, but ride by attack with a move that trips people sounds like it could be useful. Oh, and if this is a high level campaign, get Leadership and get a Nightmare cohort. You'd need to be 13th level for it (CR 5 and hit dice 6 is 11th level effectively, and leadership has the -2 level requirement for any cohort), but then you'd have pretty awesome flight capabilities.

Oh, and one more thing. Fighting indoors is easy with riding a horse. I once knew a guy who played a druid that never got off his horse, hell he even went into the kings quarters with it, all the way up the castle stairs and everything.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:26 am

Siberys wrote:Class- Well, any melee class works well with it, but I'd suggest a fighter/rogue specializing in a spear like weapon.

Equipment- Barding obviously, you want your horse to survive as much as you.

Armor- Mithral Breastplate. You'll need the armor bonus, but the mithral is essential to not reduce your skills too much.

Tactics- Not sure on that one, but ride by attack with a move that trips people sounds like it could be useful. Oh, and if this is a high level campaign, get Leadership and get a Nightmare cohort. You'd need to be 13th level for it (CR 5 and hit dice 6 is 11th level effectively, and leadership has the -2 level requirement for any cohort), but then you'd have pretty awesome flight capabilities.

Oh, and one more thing. Fighting indoors is easy with riding a horse. I once knew a guy who played a druid that never got off his horse, hell he even went into the kings quarters with it, all the way up the castle stairs and everything.

really? i would think the game master would say something to the effect of 'druid on horse guy walks into the room, hitting his head multiple times on the rafters' or 'the king bellowed "you walk into my throne room and not only do you refuse to kneel, you stay mounted on a horse so that you look down upon your king?! get out oif my sight!'"
btw thx for the help

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:31 am

Ribzlibz wrote:really? i would think the game master would say something to the effect of 'druid on horse guy walks into the room, hitting his head multiple times on the rafters' or 'the king bellowed "you walk into my throne room and not only do you refuse to kneel, you stay mounted on a horse so that you look down upon your king?! get out oif my sight!'"
btw thx for the help

Hehe...he did say a lot of those things, but that didn't stop the druid apparently.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:35 am

Siberys wrote:Hehe...he did say a lot of those things, but that didn't stop the druid apparently.

thats funny.... inserting laughing emote now
:laugh:

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:48 pm

Hhmmm... Which books can you use? A warrior with a lance opens the way to some serious Power Attack (ab)use.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:44 pm

throughout the day ive formulated a character, a halfling druid who uses a sling. hopefully this will be the answer to my prayers. and due to small size and small mount, therell be no lumpy or bruised foreheads like your foolish druid friend

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:38 am

ees done (sorry for double postin)

haha officially done. it takes the form of a kind of 'halfling frontiersman' with the aid of some magic to get things done. powerful close range but much more acurate far range. Good AC, good saves... this character has it goin on XD
Charcter name: Leif Forrester played by: Gabriel miller or 'Ribzlibz' (my aim name)
Class: Druid 1 Race: Halfling Size: Small Gender: M Allignment: Nuetral Religion or diety: Dualist Height:3'1 Weight:27 pounds
Appearence:Long and tall... for a halfling. black eyes. Unkempt shoulderlength black hair. often dresses in browns and greys.
STR14 (+2)
DEX 16 (+3)
WIS 12 (+1)
INT 10 (+0)
CHA 10 (+0)
CON 8 (-1)
BAB: 0 MAB: 2 RAB: 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weapon: Sling Attack bonus:+5 (3 RAB, 1 racial bonus, 1 size) Damage: 1d3+2
Critical: 20 x2 Range increment:50 Type: Bludgeoning Ammunition:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weapon: Spear Attack bonus: +2 (2 MAB) Damage: 1d6+2 Critical: 20 x3
Range increment:20 Type

iercing Notes: none
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hp: 7 Speed:15 Initiative modifier:+3 Grapple modifier: -2 (0 BAB, -4 Size, +2 str)
Saving throws: REF: 4 (0 base, +1 race, +3 ability) FORT:2 (2 base, -1 ability, +1 size)
WILL 4 (2 base, 1 race, 1 ability) AC: 18 (+1 shield, +3 armor, +3 dex, +1 size)
Touch AC: 14 (1 size, 3 dex) Flat-footed AC: 15 (+1 shield, +3 armor, +3 size)
Armor: Hide Max dex:4 Penalty:3 Weight: 13
Sheild: Small wood Penalty: 1 Weight:3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possesions:
Backpack Location: back Weight:2
Flint and steel Location: Backpack Weight:---
Torch (3) Location: backpack Weight: 3
Sling Location: Waist Weight:---
belt pouch Location: belt Weight 1
Ammo(40) Location

ouch Weight:2
spear Location: back Weight:3
Small wood shield Location: left hand Weight: 3
Hide Location: Body Weight: 13
Cold weather clothes Location: body Weight: 2
29/42
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Off hand possesions:
Saddlebags Location: mount Weight:8
Saddle (riding) Location: mount Weight: 25
bedroll Location: saddlebags Weight:2
rations (4 days) Location: saddlebags weight1
Waterskin Location: saddlebags Weight:1
Money:12 gp 5 sp 7 cp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell save:11 + level
level 0 spells
Obscuring cloud
Summon food
Channel energy
Level 1 spells
Flare, Greater
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Animal companion
Name: Bosco Type: Riding dog speed: 40 hp: 13
STR: 15 (+2)
DEX: 15 (+2)
WIS: 12 (+1)
INT: 2 (-4)
CON: 15 (+2)
CHA: 6 (-2)
Initiative +2 (2 dex)
AC: 16 (2 dex, 4 naturaul) Flatfooted: 14 (4 naturaul) Touch: 12 (2dex)
Fort: +5 REF: +5 will:+1 attack/full attack: (1d6+3) BA/Grapple: +1, +3
Skills:Jump 8, Survival 1, listen 5, spot 5, swim 3
feats: alertness, track
trick: track
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Feats: Mounted combat
Skills: Handle animal 4, Ride 4 ( 3), survival 2 (5), heal 2 (3), spot 2 (3), listen 0 (3), move silently 0 (1), swim 0 (-2), heal 2 (3)
languages: halfling, common

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:14 am

To be honest, that character is plain weak. Why use Druid for this? If you want to be a mounted ranged attacker, go for Ranger. A Druid's strenght consists of him being Wildshaped while casting powerful spells. I don't see how you're going to pull that off with 12 WIS. Even worse is the 8 CON. It serves only one thing: dying, nothing else.
I'd go for a Ranger Halfling, with these stats:
STR 12; DEX 16; CON 12; INT 12; WIS 14; CHA 8.
Take Point Blank Shot, and ASAP Precise Shot. (Or go for that Halfling race that gets a bonus feat.) Go for the Ranged style.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:13 am

i disagree. okay maybe i need more wisdom. but other than that this character balances out well: high ac against low hp, Fast mount versus low moving speed, melee for high damage sling for accuracy. And of course when he gets to lvl five ill be in business, turning into an animal and fighting alongside my perilous mount.
In the end, this is a character id feel is ready for 1st level engagements, able to use back up long range or some tanking. ill edit the wisdom (i used 25 point planned generation) and add in some mount food (i forgot about it) but otherwise i like this character

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:16 pm

Low HP are deadly. So many things (Lucky hits, AoE, spells, touch attacks,...) that can kill you that don't even look at your AC, which is, at best, decent. Even with high AC, a lucky hit kills you. It makes you more susceptible to Poison and other things that do CON damage. If your CON drops to 0, you're dead.
You need all the WIS you can get, both for the spells/day as for the DC.
Also, if you're going to wildshape, dump STR & DEX, since you'll be using those of your wildshape. However, per the latest errata, Wildshape uses your HP, based on your original CON.
For a great mounted build with Druid, take Leadership (if allowed) and use a mounted Archer as Cohort, and Wildshape into his mount. Get Natural Spell. If you want to, get Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning. If you got Complete Warrior, get Zen Archery, for your ranged attacks, should you really, really want them.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:14 pm

ahh fine. i see that there are more problems than i thought were there. but still itll take me a while to get a mount or spells as a ranger. true, it does well other wise. but what about how looooo0ng it will take

find me an answer to that, and ill be almost completely certain to change my ways of druidity

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:19 pm

Buy a mount for the first levels. They're quite cheap, some even attainable by 1st level. Check prices here: SRD - Equipment Goods and Services

I'm not saying that a Druid is a weak class; it is in fact one of the powerhouses of D&D. But CON & WIS are its prime stats.

Depending on the books you can use, you could with that Ranger in different ways.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:34 pm

GawainBS wrote:Buy a mount for the first levels. They're quite cheap, some even attainable by 1st level. Check prices here: SRD - Equipment Goods and Services

I'm not saying that a Druid is a weak class; it is in fact one of the powerhouses of D&D. But CON & WIS are its prime stats.

Depending on the books you can use, you could with that Ranger in different ways.

i like druids, but i want a very stable attack and high evasion. magic to me is a tad unstable so i want it mainly for support or the occasional attack but not my whole offense. i like the druids spells better, but ranmger does have one of my favorites (summon creature). 100 for a warpony or 150 for riding dog im not so sure about: how much do dms normally give people to start with?
Ranging would allow me to take some points out of wisdom since i wont need high wisdom till higher levels. or i could use character generators for higher pointage. rangers give nice feats for long range fighting... but i dont see any that increase sling reload speed specificly (know any such feats?) rangers use devine spells: who do they pray to. i could use metal armor then, and thatd help. finally, what do i use my familiar on? all in all, these are my main problems with changing

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:28 pm

@GawainBS, you know it doesn't always have to be about weakness and power. What about the good ol' fashioned roleplaying aspect of D&D. His character is adequate, to me at least.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:44 am

First off, that character *is* weak. A Druid who only has 12 WIS and just 8 CON is weak. Not adequate, but poor.
Secondly, I can't tell people how to roleplay. That's subjective. Hence, the only advice that can be given on an objective base, is one about efficiency and power.
Third, here's a fraction from his original post:

whats the best class/equipment/armor/tactics for a powerful cavalry type person?

Emphasis mine. I tried to answer his request as good as possible. Granted, what I said isn't much of a cavalrist anymore, but I was just working on what Ribzlibz provided.

Finally: Building a character that's quite powerful is only good roleplaying. Adventurers live dangerous lives. They make good choices, or they die. The things I suggested aren't even farfetched; not doing them would be "unrealistic" (i.e. "bad roleplaying"): your main class feature are your spells, at least make sure that you're able to cast them at all. Your second feature is your Wildshape, which probably means melee: Be sure to get the HP to survive melee then. Dead character are very bad roleplay opportunities, since they are being quite dull at that time. Armies don't train soldiers to be librarians, because that would be inefficient.
So, I don't see why having a powerful character would exclude the roleplaying. There simply is no reason to see those two things as opposed. I've seen good RP'ers with powerful character, and bad RP'ers with weak characters.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:19 am

GawainBS wrote:First off, that character *is* weak. A Druid who only has 12 WIS and just 8 CON is weak. Not adequate, but poor.
Secondly, I can't tell people how to roleplay. That's subjective. Hence, the only advice that can be given on an objective base, is one about efficiency and power.
Third, here's a fraction from his original post:

Emphasis mine. I tried to answer his request as good as possible. Granted, what I said isn't much of a cavalrist anymore, but I was just working on what Ribzlibz provided.

Finally: Building a character that's quite powerful is only good roleplaying. Adventurers live dangerous lives. They make good choices, or they die. The things I suggested aren't even farfetched; not doing them would be "unrealistic" (i.e. "bad roleplaying"): your main class feature are your spells, at least make sure that you're able to cast them at all. Your second feature is your Wildshape, which probably means melee: Be sure to get the HP to survive melee then. Dead character are very bad roleplay opportunities, since they are being quite dull at that time. Armies don't train soldiers to be librarians, because that would be inefficient.
So, I don't see why having a powerful character would exclude the roleplaying. There simply is no reason to see those two things as opposed. I've seen good RP'ers with powerful character, and bad RP'ers with weak characters.

what sy means is that there are some, perhaps amny, flaws in the character. but these weaknesses make the rper have to be smarter: are you gonna charge in like an idiot or think it out? most likely a poor rper with a good character would suggest the first. a good rper with a imperfect character would choose the latter. a bad rper with an imperfect character would die.
however i cant help but feel that i cant do much to help fix the hp problem. i said id attend to the wisdom problem (probably at the cost of my +0 charaisma mod) so theres not much that i can do. in other words, lets see what, not my character, but I can do.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:40 am

And you are limited by your character, since even the best RP enactement wouldn't give you bonus HP, for instance.
Being a smart RP-er starts out with getting a good character: you can't win battles/encounters/problem by being smart, if you don't have the tools to implent the tactics. The core mechanic is rolling a dice: it's pure random! Being smart means you try to reduce the randomness by getting high modifiers on your roll. Ways to do this are: good bonuses in relevant stats, feats, classes, applying the right spells, flanking, avoiding Attacks of Opportunity (Preventing a potentially bad roll is the highest number you can get.), etc. You can try to be as smart as you want, unless you have some houserule, that won't change the fact that that d20 determines the outcome of things. (In situations where the rules are relevant.)
At least consider this: you said yourself that you're planning to wildshape. Hence, once you do, your DEX & STR get overridden and thus all points you spent in them are being useless, while you still have your low HP, but are standing in melee. You get quite a lot of Wildshape uses, it lasts 1 hour/level, and there are feats to get more uses and to use spells while wildshaped.
And again: I don't see why you have to be less smart with a good character. It's what I prefer: think of a good build, play it smart. They go hand-in-hand. Even the best tools won't be of use to a fool.

Ribzlibz · Post by **Ribzlibz** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:13 am

fine. ill concede. used a character creater on this (for some reason it didnt let me make bosco):
Leif forrester

Male Halfling Druid 1
True Neutral
Representing Gabriel miller

Strength 16 (+3)
Dexterity 18 (+4)
Constitution 15 (+2)
Intelligence 14 (+2)
Wisdom 18 (+4)
Charisma 12 (+1)

Size: Small
Height: 3' 1"
Weight: 30 lb
Eyes: Black
Hair: Black
Skin: Light

Total Hit Points: 10

Speed: 15 feet

Armor Class: 19 = 10 + 3 [hide] + 1 [light wooden] + 4 [dexterity] + 1 [small]

Touch AC: 15
Flat-footed: 15

Initiative modifier: + 4 = + 4 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: + 5 = 2 [base] + 2 [constitution] + 1 [halfling]
Reflex save: + 5 = 0 [base] + 4 [dexterity] + 1 [halfling]
Will save: + 7 = 2 [base] + 4 [wisdom] + 1 [halfling]
Attack (handheld): + 4 = 0 [base] + 3 [strength] + 1 [small]
Attack (missile): + 5 = 0 [base] + 4 [dexterity] + 1 [small]
Grapple check: -1 = 0 [base] + 3 [strength] -4 [small]

Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
57 or less
58-115 lb.
116-173 lb.
173 lb.
345 lb.
863 lb.

Languages: Common Druidic Halfling (? 2 more)

Spear [1d6, crit x3, range incr 20 ft., 3 lb., two-handed, piercing]

Sling [1d3, crit x2, range inc. 50 ft., 0 lb, bludgeoning]

Hide armor [medium; + 3 AC; max dex + 4; check penalty -3; 12.5 lb.]

Light Wooden Shield [ + 1 AC; check penalty -1; hardness 5; hp 7; 2.5 lb.]

Feats:

Mounted Combat

Skill Name

Key
Ability

Skill
Modifier

Ability
Modifier

Ranks

Misc.
Modifier
Appraise Int 2 =
+2

Balance Dex* 4 =
+4

Bluff Cha 1 =
+1

Climb Str* 5 =
+3
+ 2 [halfling]
Concentration Con 6 =
+2
+ 4
Craft_1 Int 2 =
+2

Craft_2 Int 2 =
+2

Craft_3 Int 2 =
+2

Diplomacy Cha 5 =
+1
+ 4
Disguise Cha 1 =
+1

Escape Artist Dex* 4 =
+4

Forgery Int 2 =
+2

Gather Information Cha 1 =
+1

Handle Animal Cha 5 =
+1
+ 4
Heal Wis 8 =
+4
+ 4
Hide Dex* 8 =
+4
+ 4 [small]
Intimidate Cha 1 =
+1

Jump Str* -4 =
+3
+ 2 [halfling] -9 [speed 15]
Knowledge (nature) Int 4 =
+2
[cannot use untrained] + 2 [druid]
Listen Wis 6 =
+4
+ 2 [halfling]
Move Silently Dex* 6 =
+4
+ 2 [halfling]
Perform_1 Cha 1 =
+1

Perform_2 Cha 1 =
+1

Perform_3 Cha 1 =
+1

Perform_4 Cha 1 =
+1

Perform_5 Cha 1 =
+1

Profession Wis 6 =
+4
+ 2
Ride Dex 8 =
+4
+ 4
Search Int 2 =
+2

Sense Motive Wis 4 =
+4

Spot Wis 6 =
+4
+ 2
Survival Wis 6 =
+4
+ 2 [druid]
Swim Str** 3 =
+3

Use Rope Dex 4 =
+4

* = check penalty for wearing armor

Zero-level Druid spells: 3 per day

First-level Druid spells: 2 (1 + 1) per day

Halfling

* + 2 dexterity / -2 strength (already included)

* Small (combat bonuses, + 4 to hide already included)

* + 2 racial bonus on climb, jump, move silently

* + 1 racial bonus on all saving throws (already included)

* + 2 morale bonus on saves vs. fear (stacks with racial bonus)

* + 1 to hit with thrown weapons and slings

* + 2 racial bonus on listen checks (already included)

Druid

* Spontaneous Casting (summon nature's ally)

* Animal Companion

* + 2 on Knowledge (nature) and Survival (already included)

* Wild Empathy

* Woodland Stride (level 2)

* Trackless Step (level 3)

* Resist Nature's Lure (level 4)

* Wild Shape (level 5)

* Venom Immunity (level 9)

* A Thousand Faces (level 13)

* Timeless Body (level 15)

* High wisdom gains bonus spells daily

Class HP rolled
Level 1: Druid 8

Leif forrester's Equipment:

18 lb
20 lb
2 lb
1 lb

1 lb
3 lb
1 lb
1 lb

2 lb
_____
49 lb Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above)
Sling bullets (group of 10) x4
Backpack
Bedroll
Flint and steel
Rations (1 day) x4
Torches x3
Waterskins x1
Whetstone
Holly and mistletoe
Spell component pouch

Total

Also...

12gp 5 sp 2cp

More about Leif forrester:

Leif forrester is a strong druidic half-ling. his animal companion, the riding dog Bosco, is his best friend, often his only one seeing as he spends most time outdoors. He wears a grey-blue greatcoat and pants, a tall hat similair to an ushanka, and bits of furs and pelts protecting him. He believes in nature more than anything else, but also believes taking lives of weaker beasts is when necessary acceptable. Mass slaughter and failure to use as much of a dead beast as possible is to him the real sin. He's a tad reclusive as can be expected of a frontiersman. Still, hes a jaunty likable guy.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:22 am

Which character creator did you use? I don't know of any, except HeroForge.
Something that you might want to consider: if you use a club or quarterstaff instead of a spear, you could cast Brambles, Shillelagh, and the like on it. Still, spears are my favourite weapon, so go for them. They don't get enough love in RPGs.