Powerful uses of UAI

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:27 pm

I'm trying to find some powerful uses for the Thief High Level Ability: Use Any Item.

I've thought of boosting physical resistances (Defender of Easthaven, Jan's Armor), boosting magical resistances (Carsomyr, dunno what else), and I'm trying to think of others.

It's been a really long time since I played a Thief to a high level, and I plan on doing it this time. I'm trying to figure out how to plan my proficiencies (he's actually a Fighter/Thief of some sort -- either multiclass, or dual (Wizard Slayer, Barbarian, Berserker, Kensai).

TIA

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:05 am

Don't get Carsomyr, it only sets your MR to 50%. If you're really wanting to make a good use of UAI, I recommend trying this:

Hindo's Doom (10)
Human Flesh (20)
Purifier (30)
ToB ending bonus (10)
Seldarine amulet (10)
Ring of Gaxx (10)
Lum's Machine bonus (5)
Cleric ring (5)

For a nifty 100% MR. Of cource, I tend to use Ages instead of Hindo (-5) and not bother with the cleric ring (-5) because 90% is well enough for me. Top this off by using a lot of Hardiness and you're now 90% magical resistant and 40% Physical. And of cource, with Flail of Ages and 22-25 str you're pretty much a badass when it comes to dishing out damage as well.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:11 pm

It depends on what class you are. A swashbuckler for example is more than capable of reaching a constant -24AC through the aid of UAI, and still be able to dual wield and already being a potent fighter, could use Tensor's Transformation to buff himself/herself even further.

For Assassins, Bounty Hunters and Thieves, you could use the Staff of the Magic to quickly retreat out of the enemy's line of sight to hide in shadows after a backstab, not to mention be protected by Spelltrap. Bounty hunters could use this to scout the area before hand, to decide as to where they want to throw their traps. The use of Vhalior's Helm can get your more traps as well as change your clone's role from a backstabber to a fighter, to a mage of sorts, without wasting any items/charges, not to mention granting extra traps.

This will let cleric/thieves use bladed weapons, thus giving a wider range of backstab weaponry AND access to wands as well as mage spells.

Using Jan's armor is probably only useful for bards/blades that are used as self-buffers as they can supplement AC loss by casting Ghost Armor. It doesn't make sense for mage/thieves to wear it instead of the Robe of Vecna, unless they are, once again, self-buffers.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:10 am

Crenshinibon wrote:It depends on what class you are. A swashbuckler for example is more than capable of reaching a constant -24AC through the aid of UAI, and still be able to dual wield and already being a potent fighter, could use Tensor's Transformation to buff himself/herself even further.

I still haven't completely settled on that yet.

It'll either be a F/T, a F/M/T, or a Wizard Slayer > Thief.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:53 am

Thrifalas wrote:Don't get Carsomyr, it only sets your MR to 50%. If you're really wanting to make a good use of UAI, I recommend trying this:

Hindo's Doom (10)
Human Flesh (20)
Purifier (30)
ToB ending bonus (10)
Seldarine amulet (10)
Ring of Gaxx (10)
Lum's Machine bonus (5)
Cleric ring (5)

For a nifty 100% MR. Of cource, I tend to use Ages instead of Hindo (-5) and not bother with the cleric ring (-5) because 90% is well enough for me. Top this off by using a lot of Hardiness and you're now 90% magical resistant and 40% Physical. And of cource, with Flail of Ages and 22-25 str you're pretty much a badass when it comes to dishing out damage as well.

Wow.

I'm actually thinking now of playing a Wizard Slayer to level 13 (not sure what his MR will be, but it'll help), and equipping much of the stuff that you list here. I'll also wear Bracers AC 3 with Jan's armor for an okay AC but great resistance to physical damage. If I can, I'll also be using the Defender of Easthaven (instead of Hindo's Doom, I guess).

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:16 am

Klorox wrote:Wow.

I'm actually thinking now of playing a Wizard Slayer to level 13 (not sure what his MR will be, but it'll help), and equipping much of the stuff that you list here. I'll also wear Bracers AC 3 with Jan's armor for an okay AC but great resistance to physical damage. If I can, I'll also be using the Defender of Easthaven (instead of Hindo's Doom, I guess).

Human Flesh is one of the key part of this build, not only because of the 20% MR but also +4 saving throws, which is, frankly said, just awesome. Together with the Robe of Vecna it's definately the best armor in the game.

WZ13 should give 13MR, I think. I've considered this build myself, but then you'll be loosing out on the Hardiness HLA, which imho beats Jan's armor+Easthaven pretty badly. However, it surely is a viable build and a very nasty way to abuse UAI.

I might try it myself the next run, always fun with some versability.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:38 am

Hardiness matches the two. So, in the case of a fighter/thief, you could give yourself 80% physical resistance. Any ranger, multiclassed, dual class or neither, can achieve 85% physical resistance, without losing any armor.

Also, while Carsomyr does set your resistance to 50%, if you equip the other items AFTER the sword, they should stack on top of that bonus.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:40 pm

Thrifalas wrote:WZ13 should give 13MR, I think.

You're right, even though the BGII section of this website says WS gets 2% per level. Oh well.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:07 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:Hardiness matches the two. So, in the case of a fighter/thief, you could give yourself 80% physical resistance. Any ranger, multiclassed, dual class or neither, can achieve 85% physical resistance, without losing any armor.

Also, while Carsomyr does set your resistance to 50%, if you equip the other items AFTER the sword, they should stack on top of that bonus.

Would you mind telling me how to get that 80% physical resistance, as well as the 85 for rangers?

Also, how you get swashbucklers with such a low AC.

I'm trying to make a real power combo here.

A FMT might actually be the best way to go, but I still have a lot of faith in either a Barbarian > Thief or Wizard Slayer > Thief.

TIA

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:26 pm

For ranger/cleric or fighter/cleric or a ranger (kits included aside from Beast Master): Defender of Easthaven (20%) + Armor of Faith (25%) + Hardiness (40%) = 85%

For Barbarian: Barbarian Resistance (20%) + Defender of Easthaven (20%) + Hardiness (40%) = 80%

For fighter/thief or fighter/mage/thief: Jansen AdventureWear (25%) + Defender of Easthaven (20%) + Hardiness (40%) = 85%

Swashbuckler: Base AC: -6 (Dexterity of 22, starting from BG1, without TuTu, Hell Bonus of -2AC and the Swashbuckler AC bonus at level 40) + Vhalior's Helm (-1) + Ring of Gaxx (-2) + Ring of Gaxx (-2) + Shuruppak's Plate ( -11, +1 DEX) + Cloak of Balduran (-1) = -24.

Even without the Cloak of Balduran, you can use either Montolio's Cloak or Cloak of the Sewers, even the Yamato +4 along with the Defender of Easthaven, which could bring you up to -26, unfortunately, without Single Weapon Style it caps at -24. If you DO feel like getting -25 AC, simply use a one handed weapon, without anything in the offhand, but make sure you have points in Single Weapon Style.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:20 am

Neat. Thanks a lot for mapping that out for me!

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:41 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:Also, while Carsomyr does set your resistance to 50%, if you equip the other items AFTER the sword, they should stack on top of that bonus.

That you do, but it resets everytime you load, which is quite annoying in the end. And I don't think ToB ending or Lum's bonuses stacks with it either.

Klorox wrote:You're right, even though the BGII section of this website says WS gets 2% per level. Oh well.

Yeah. It's really 1% up to level 20 or something, then 5% each other level. You get something around 85-95% at max level. Compare that to a F/T who gets the same amount, can wear ANY magical item instead of NONE, and is a kickass thief.

Crenshinibon wrote:Swashbuckler: Base AC: -6 (Dexterity of 22, starting from BG1, without TuTu, Hell Bonus of -2AC and the Swashbuckler AC bonus at level 40) + Vhalior's Helm (-1) + Ring of Gaxx (-2) + Ring of Gaxx (-2) + Shuruppak's Plate ( -11, +1 DEX) + Cloak of Balduran (-1) = -24.

First of all, duplicating Ring of Gaxx is very cheesy and shouldn't be used. And you forgot the Harper's Amulet for a neat -3 AC.

Besides, you can always get the BMU which will give you 8 better AC than Shuruppak. That'd add up to, say, -36AC without using the Gaxx exploit. ^^ (Use Ring of Earth Control instead.)

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:27 pm

I consider switching to the Amulet of Power annoying. I'd rather have a constant protection from negative energy. I do use it, but in ToB you encounter enemies and traps that drain levels so often, that it's best to keep the amulet on at all times.

The AC is capped at -24/-25 so the BMU wouldn't really be useful, not to mention you're unable to fit through any normal sized door.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Wed May 07, 2008 3:58 am

Well, the original Wizard Slayer's MR is indeed 1% per levels 1-19, after that it is 5% per pair levels, and 1% per unpair. The total MR bonus at lvl 40 is always 84%. This is absolutely enough, provided that with SoA final bonus, machine of Lum the Mad, Sword of Balduran, Shield of the Lost, Ekindu's plate and Amulet of the Seldarine (yes a WS can wear it!), you can go way over 100% permanently. Unfortunately, a solo Wizard Slayer has awful saving throws because of his item restrictions, so pick a Dwarf race at character creation.

I consider the use of WS->thief dubious, since a Berserker->thief will be far better choice early, as well as late in the game. Besides, a dualled F->T is way less powerful than the multiclass one because of the lack of warrior HLAs at higher levels.

F/M/T will have fewer HLAs than the F/T, and a little worse THAC0 and HP score, but spells help immensely indeed, so it is an option to ponder.

Gorlam · Post by **Gorlam** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:28 pm

Klorox wrote:Wow.

I'm actually thinking now of playing a Wizard Slayer to level 13 (not sure what his MR will be, but it'll help), and equipping much of the stuff that you list here. I'll also wear Bracers AC 3 with Jan's armor for an okay AC but great resistance to physical damage. If I can, I'll also be using the Defender of Easthaven (instead of Hindo's Doom, I guess).

I use a wizard slayer/rogue, works pretty well. His magic interrupt skill is mostly useful against powerful mages that have multiple contingency spells and the like. I remember hitting irenicus at spellhold 4-5 times, when his second contingency went off that had timestop he was completely unable to cast spells. Personally I take the WS to level 17 then dual.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:01 am

A WS-> thief is not bad, but a multiclassed F/T is way better, because, frankly, permanent slashing&piercing resistance of 85%, crushing 127% and missile 90% is way better than anything else.

Besides, the spellcasting penalty lasts for a very short time(2 or 3 rounds) and doesn't affect powerful enemies like Demogorgon, Mel or dragons of any kind, which use special kind of uninterruptable casting.

In short, it is silly to trade 10-13 Hardinesses (for a multi F/T) for a few MR points and spellcasting failure penalty(WS->T)...

Gorlam · Post by **Gorlam** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:13 pm

Saros wrote:A WS-> thief is not bad, but a multiclassed F/T is way better, because, frankly, permanent slashing&piercing resistance of 85%, crushing 127% and missile 90% is way better than anything else.

Besides, the spellcasting penalty lasts for a very short time(2 or 3 rounds) and doesn't affect powerful enemies like Demogorgon, Mel or dragons of any kind, which use special kind of uninterruptable casting.

In short, it is silly to trade 10-13 Hardinesses (for a multi F/T) for a few MR points and spellcasting failure penalty(WS->T)...

Yah but for all of the powerful fights you mentioned, you can lay traps beforehand. For mel you just have to beat her the first time. After that you can rest and drop traps.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:19 am

Gorlam wrote:Yah but for all of the powerful fights you mentioned, you can lay traps beforehand. For mel you just have to beat her the first time. After that you can rest and drop traps.

Apparently, you've never played Ascension...