PC vs. PC battle for supremacy - ends speculation once and for all

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:18 am

Because it was stapled to the chicken in front???

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:22 am

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
And why are so many thief players think a mage, spec. mage, sorceror or druid would walk around without Stoneskin or Ironskin always on? One backstab attempt of the thief and one skin out of 8 is gone. Period. Continguencies have nothing to do with this. It's only later in the duel that the continguency would kick in. I agree that it may be futile at that point (if you hit me, even with continguency, I'm dead). But then, I have 8 rounds to act and react before my stoneskin fails. And I can cast another one before the first drops... just to be sure I'm never caught naked.

What if? What if? What if?

What if Rail backstabs, sneaks, backstabs till you run out of stoneskins?
What if you don't have stoneskin?
What if you had to pay for your spell components and couldn't aford stoneskin? What if, as a sorcerer, you didn't have access to stoneskin?

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:23 am

No. Its because he wanted to kill a f*~king
sorcerer. yours rowdin.

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:27 am

I would go to Team BG today and ask them what they think of a BG Arena project.

They might like it...

I was thinking of something like this :
- you start the arena and decide which characters are imported (an xp range would have been determined earlier to be sure no 10th level would duel a 20th level)
- you enter the arena area naked (without any equipment)
- you go see a guy that will give you a certain amount of money to equip your characters (all receive the same amount... but if you want no magical items, you can go with 1000gp only, or if you want a power trip, you can go for 1 million gp...)
- you then go equip your gladiators at specialty shops (almost all items in the game should be available there)
- after this is done, you again go see the gladiator master and you get to choose between 3 or 4 areas to fight in
- an option for royal rumble, 2 vs 2, or anything else can be added
- the gladiator master would also ask how many times you want to have to prepare for the duel (measured in rounds)
- all characters are then teleported in random cells around the arena. The door of the cells are locked and will only open at the end of the preparation time.
- once the doors open, the fight would begin, and all who are not your allies in the fight would be red and affected by "ennemy only" magic.
- a feature to keep the scores on the net can also be included.

What do you think?

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:35 am

Originally posted by ROWDIN:
why did the chicken cross the road.

yours rowdin??

@pat bou - good idea. End this cr*p once and for all.

Of course, once my level 1 kobold shaman got in there, you'd be crying over your level 21 corpse as I desecrated it

Pack your bags and go home, the smelly kobold shaman rules all-comers.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:39 am

Absolutely great! All the best ideas converted into a really challenging atmosphere.

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:51 am

Originally posted by Gruntboy:

What if? What if? What if?

What if Rail backstabs, sneaks, backstabs till you run out of stoneskins?
What if you don't have stoneskin?
What if you had to pay for your spell components and couldn't aford stoneskin? What if, as a sorcerer, you didn't have access to stoneskin?

Breath man!

Please understand that this has been explained many times now (the stoneskin issue vs backstab). If the whole thread has been read before Rail gives me that strategy, then he would have kept the thought to himself, knowing what the sorceror can do.

He expressed his thought and opinion. I admit that my answer was not the most polite, but as I said the stoneskin vs backstab issue has been discussed a few times in this same thread, so you must understand how fed up I can be or repeating the same thing.

Come with something new, like Nighthawk's Flail of the Ages.

Now to answer your post...

There are no what if.

Sorceror HAVE acces to stoneskin. There are NO components in BG2. No spellcasters that can have stoneskin or ironskin would be without it (its one of the most BASIC spells of BG2).

And Rail can try to backstab me once. As soon as he's visible I get to react. He can run away to hide again, but I can follow him with my boots of speed. As long as I can see him, he can't hide. And if he drinks a potion of invisibility, I can counter with True Sight.

And no, I wouldn't run out of skins. As I stated before, I would cast the spell again before the first one fails. I can count to 6 or 7. Beleive me that after the 6th or 7th hit (out of 8 skins), I would cast the spell again.

Read the post about my Spell Triger / Melf's Acid Arrow Strategy. Before I run out of skins, the thief would have taken 180 damage (average... not maximum) in 8 rounds.

Now don't tell me you have the cloak of mirroring, because you don't : you have the cloak of non-detection.

Note that I don't use mirror image against a thief that can detect illusion.

The sorceror would have to be very unlucky to die at the hand of a thief.

I can admit when I'm defeated : the paladin (and kits) and anyone armed with Flail of Ages is a serious threat for the sorceror. Monks and other Mages (specialist or sorceror) are a very good challenge. But please don't think the thief can be a problem, unless you come up with a more interesting strategy.

That is actually good to talk about this and find some more strategies. Our game play improves with it and any AI controlled ennemy become easier (the athasians halfling are now a piece of cake for my solo sorceror, but they whiped a party of 6 real good many times before I finally succeed... using cheesy tactics).

Take care.

whitelight666 · Post by **whitelight666** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:54 am

i would just like say, on a sidenote since we are hypothetically speaking about a lot of this, that a level 17 enchanter would be rather powerful if TRUE adnd rules were implemented in regards to spells. in true adnd rules, domination would allow for the caster to command the person dominated to do ANYthing, including attack ones self. so, against most enemies an enchanter with a staff of the magi would stand a good chance by simply spell triggering some lower resists and malisons, then triggering/casting a few dominations.
just an interesting thought.

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Is anyone else angry that mages can't cast level 9 spells?

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:57 am

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
@pat bou - good idea. End this cr*p once and for all.

Of course, once my level 1 kobold shaman got in there, you'd be crying over your level 21 corpse as I desecrated it Pack your bags and go home, the smelly kobold shaman rules all-comers.

Are you trying to flame me?

My fire extinguisher is very good and the sprinklers are showering me right now...

So long. Keep up the good work!

whitelight666 · Post by **whitelight666** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 9:10 am

i think it was a joke.

back to the enchanter thing, have him memorize a few flesh to stones, then give that a whirl.
does the cloak of mirroring reflect flesh to stone? FtS doesnt do damage, per se, although if u are un-stoned you are reduced to minimal hp, i think......

keep up the discussions, this is interestin readin'

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 9:16 am

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
Please understand that this has been explained many times now (the stoneskin issue vs backstab). If the whole thread has been read before Rail gives me that strategy, then he would have kept the thought to himself, knowing what the sorceror can do.

I understand. I just wanted to make you do it again 'cos it seems to get your goat.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
so you must understand how fed up I can be or repeating the same thing.

Right back at ya. I get fed up of this "my choice is better than your choice" rubbish.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
There are no what if.

I lost count of your if's in this post.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
(its one of the most BASIC spells of BG2).

Basic? Disagree. Fairly high level? Yes.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
And no, I wouldn't run out of skins.

Yes you would. IF not high enough level or IF no boots of speed.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
Read the post about my Spell Triger

Can't be arsed.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
Now don't tell me you have the cloak of mirroring, because you don't : you have the cloak of non-detection.

I can wear what I want. It takes a few seconds to swap. And what if I've got it in on anyway? Doesn't that defeat all your naff spells? And what if you've not got true sight on because your not expecting a thief because you don't consider them to be a threat?

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
I can admit when I'm defeated.

No. You don't seem able to do that. Even the Inquisitor has a tough time agaisnt you.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
But please don't think the thief can be a problem, unless you come up with a more interesting strategy.

Frankly I don't know why I'm bothering. You've just got my back up now. This whole exercise seem utterly pointless and is just a continuation of the "I made better choices than you" concept.

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
That is actually good to talk about this and find some more strategies.

Nah. Not worth the time. Good luck with the gladiator idea though, I'm sure lots of people will show up with cloaks of mirroring to test your theory.

Oh, one more thing. I think you under-estimated the Jester too.

1. Jester goes invisible & non-detected.
2. Jester plays confusion
3. Sorcerer dies horribly.

Didn't some guy solo the whole game like this?

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Its shocking, Foul. I was happily spamming away when BAM! a serious discussion broke out.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 9:23 am

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
Are you trying to flame me?

My fire extinguisher is very good and the sprinklers are showering me right now...

So long. Keep up the good work!

I wasn't trying to flame you there. I have other posts in a thread about insanely powerful characters - its a relation to that. It is a good ideas, seriosly. Now my last post, that's a flame.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 9:24 am

Pat: I like your arena idea though I'm unsure whether Team BG could actually do it. I believe it would require changes to the actual code of the game, not just the data it operates on (like modules, weapons, kits, and level 40 rules).

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:20 am

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
I understand. I just wanted to make you do it again 'cos it seems to get your goat.

You're putting too much pressure on yourself. My girlfriend can do the job. Other than make me sick, you don't achieve anything.

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
Right back at ya. I get fed up of this "my choice is better than your choice" rubbish.

So don't read the post. You actually have to click on it to read it. It's not like I'm imposing you anything or polluting your precious screen.

And it takes 2 to tango. I'm not arguing with the void. I'm discussing with other members, and they are discussing with me.

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
I lost count of your if's in this post.

You're just telling us you can't count to 3.

You are so miserable.

To help you count, there is a search function with your browser.

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
Basic? Disagree. Fairly high level? Yes.

Are we actually playing the same game?

Stoneskin is a level 4 spells. And any level 7 mage has access to level 4 spells. Guess what? The game begin with mages being level 7.

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
Yes you would. IF not high enough level or IF no boots of speed.

Where were you the past few days?

Since the beginning we're talking about duels with characters at maximum level, and properly equipped.

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
I can wear what I want. It takes a few seconds to swap. And what if I've got it in on anyway? Doesn't that defeat all your naff spells? And what if you've not got true sight on because your not expecting a thief because you don't consider them to be a threat?

Actually, swapping cloaks in combat situation is cheesy. Guess you are.

If you have cloak of mirroring, I would see the magic effect moving around, even if you are hidden.

Casting True Sight would then take 1 segment, and you wouldn't disrupt it because of my... yes! Stoneskin!

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pat Bou:
I can admit when I'm defeated.
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No. You don't seem able to do that. Even the Inquisitor has a tough time agaisnt you.

Do you read?

Quoting myself (first post of my yesterday's thread) :
"- Paladins and paladin kits : these are a pain for the sorceror and as much as my ego wants it, the everyday sorceror would have a though time beating these guys (with Carsomyr), even less if he's an inquisitor. If he's prepared for the encounter, that is different, but a surprise fight between an unprepared inquisitor and an unprepared sorceror, the inquisitor should win, unless very unlucky (like a successful Chromatic Orb in the first round : the inquisitor is dead)."
"- Jesters : sorceror may be in trouble with the confusion ability... depends on initiative I guess"

Quoting myself (an answer to Nighthawk) :
"Flail of the Ages is a surprise for me...
Mirror Images should protect me, as invisibility. Other than that, I'm short of ideas. I don't have protection from magical weapons in my spellbook and I don't carry that scroll along as I rely only on stoneskin, so I won't be cheesy and try to screw you on this..."

I admit my defeat at least 3 times yesterday. Bug off.

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
quote:
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Originally posted by Pat Bou:
That is actually good to talk about this and find some more strategies.
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Nah. Not worth the time.

Not worth your time. So don't spend it even replying to us. A lot of people like this discussion so far. Again, bug off if it doesn't suits you.

This thread is ours, and for us who like it, your posts are polluting it. You have the choice of not reading the thread at all. We don't have the choice to read you since you post in a thread a lot of people read.

Oh, and if you have not gessed, even sprinklers can't extinguish a fire when oil is splashed on it. Maybe you can help and grab an extinguisher instead of a flamethrower.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:37 am

Originally posted by Pat Bou:
I finally succeed... using cheesy tactics).

I love it when people shoot themselves in the foot.

Not everyone is enjoying your thread. And you had to resort to insults to answer my righteous flame. Shame on you.

What has your girlfriend got to do with it? I hope you're not sublimating your sexual fantasies on to me. Get lost. I've got my own g/f, go and play your pathetic little rubbing games with your 'girl'

Bite me - sorcerer boy

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Its shocking, Foul. I was happily spamming away when BAM! a serious discussion broke out.

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:43 am

the thing about beening a good pc is to have
no weaknesses. a pure blooded mage has no combat ability, bad hit points, and bad armour class. If you meet a boy who can get past your magic protection you will lose.my 9,20 bersreker, celric, can do just that. Has he's a higher level spell caster than you. so if your saying that your spell caster can win most of the time making him
the best your wrong. and i won't be using the flail of ages, you could'nt beat me once without combat ability. yours rowdin

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:08 am

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
I love it when people shoot themselves in the foot.

You are so out of arguments.

To use simple quotes like this, without the full context...

About the insults, is it necessary to remind you that you started them?

I know that I was not too kind in previous posts addressed to other members, but I already said I was sorry to them. I would have a hard time being sorry for what I said to you, since you were the one who started the flame, while we were just discussing characters strenghts and weaknesses.

But now I will act as a gentleman. The week-end is only a few hours away and I'll enjoy it to the most... and come back monday. Hopefully you will have calm down by then.

We were not flaming on this thread before you stepped in. I am so sorry that your intervention ruined the whole discussion...

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:26 am

Originally posted by ROWDIN:
the thing about beening a good pc is to have
no weaknesses. a pure blooded mage has no combat ability, bad hit points, and bad armour class. If you meet a boy who can get past your magic protection you will lose.my 9,20 bersreker, celric, can do just that. Has he's a higher level spell caster than you. so if your saying that your spell caster can win most of the time making him
the best your wrong. and i won't be using the flail of ages, you could'nt beat me once without combat ability. yours rowdin

I'm tempted to give you my counter-strategy. But the atmosphere is really not good at this time on the forum and I fear I would be misunderstood.

If you still want to know what I would do in such a circumstance, I'll tell you Monday.

Just note please that I said in another post that a fighter/cleric combo would be a thought fight for the sorceror. So I know quite well I'm up against a very powerful foe (which can defeat me).

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:43 am

have a nice weekend yours rowdin.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 4:22 pm

Oh no, you're attempts at double-think and clever retorts aren't working on me, what to do?!? Try and turn others on to me? Bring it on. No-one seems interested.

No. I think, if you read your own posts, you'll find you started the snide remarks. Nor did I ever tell you to bug off. As for the quote, its perfectly in context. Live with it. Don't you think its a little rude to quote yourself too?

Anyway, I thought about this for about 10 minutes, at your analy-retentive level, and came up with multiple answers to your "wah-wah my sorcerer is the best" gloating.

1)If your sorcerer can kill any mage, mages can kill your sorcerer.
2)Druid's can summon insects to disrupts spells or animals to pound you (oh, you don't have enough spells as a sorcerer to pick "protection from normal weapons" as a spell, especially since most people use magic weapons, and animals aren't people). Avenger specifically can change into a Lesser Basilisk and petrify you. Protection from petrification one of your spells? Thought not. Iron skins spell essentially the same as stoneskin.
3)Jester. Been there.
4)Inquisitor. Ditto.
5)Bounty Hunter. Traps.
6)Ranger - Beastmaster, same as Druids (and we all know BM's are cr*p). Ranger priest spells - summon insects.
7)Swashbuckler - dual wielding with good THACO, the same as...
8)Any fighter kit. A hasted warrior, boots of speed, Belm(?) (extra attack scimitar) of even level 9 (say 3 stars dual wield, 4 in scimitar) and a few protection from magic items could hack merrily (and rapidly) away at your stoneskins whilst being fairly immune to any magic damage you attempt to deal out. Add the Battle Axe of Bala (dispel magic) or a % stun weapon and you're dead meat. So much corpse to be defiled. A Kensai could deal max damage, a beserker would be immune to stupid maze spells. Even a Wizard slayer would stand a decent chance - with a high enough magic resistance they'd be immune to your damage and would whittle away those stoneskins till they could get a hit in and dirsupt you. Too late by then anyway.

Plus, anyone with the cloak of sewers could become a mustard jelly and slime you.

Heh heh. I'm sure you'll come back from your lovely weekend and claim that you are above reading this post. Poor excuse.

Enjoy the weekend. I know I will.

[This message has been edited by Gruntboy (edited 03-02-2001).]