What Do You Want in KotOR III?
- the torturedOne
- Posts: 33
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Did anyone else catch the sublime irony of people who complain about Kreia?
The fact that people hate her even after the game is over demonstrates the superiority of Kreia as one of the best villains to ever come out of a video game. I love how they masterfully handled Kreia as a character; a character who has a real reason for doing what they did, and highly intelligent reasons at that, without invoking pity. And she was such a breath of fresh air in that she transcended the traditional light/dark two dimensional spectrum of star wars (the scene when she scolds you for giving money to the beggar was amazingly honest and well thought out. Bravo at Obsidian for creating such an ethically deep character.) She viewed her own actions not as "good" or "evil", but her own actions in and of themselves. She made a hell of a lot more convincing villain than Malak, who ran around shouting "Crush, kill, destroy!"
It's a shame that so much of the final parts of KOTOR2 were cut: it would have not only made influence that much more important in the game, it would have solidified Kreia's place as a terrific villain.
If there is a third KOTOR, there needs to be a villain like Kreia. I think the fact that she was such a personal villain (as opposed to Nihilus and Malak, who just sort of sat around in their ship blowing up planets and waiting for you to fight them) is what makes people hate Kreia. She claims the moral superiority, and backs that beef up with solid reasons, and it challenges people to ask themselves questions they might not want to answer. And on top of it all, she isn't completely without reason: she intensly loves the exile and cares so deeply for them, that being the reason she did things the way she did. Sometimes the best lessons in life are the most painful ones; and Obsidian did a fabulous job at demonstrating this.
as for other areas, I am probably the polar opposite of eveyone else: I want this game to focus almost completely on Jedis (there is a reason it is called "knights" of the Old Republic) I want lightsabers to be just as, if not more stronger. I think the engine is fine the way it is (faithful to the D20 system) and would only like to see a graphical overhaul and perhaps a bit more depth (in terms of weapon customization and variety of weapons and armor.) Maybe this isn't so maverick, but I would like to see more devotion to romance. I actually think that KOTOR2 would have been fine influence wise had they not gone and cut out much of the final moments of the game. The fact that Kreia was pitting jealous lovers against the beloved makes for great story telling.
I want to play as a hero, dammit. I like my main character being a badass. I love Romanticism and it's portrayal as man as a heroic ideal, not as something to be scorned or hated or ridiculed. That is how I like my heros: heroic. I thought the Traya academy was a blast simply because of the fact that it was easy: it demonstrated the strength your character possesed.
P.S something huge caught my eye last time I played through the game: Kreia says Mira's death occurs in many years time saving some people on an unknown planet. Is it just me, or could that be a total foreshadowing of KOTOR3? I would love to see that scene played out, especially because it says Mira dies with no regrets. It would make for such a noble scene.
P.S.S someone was griping about where the force bond went to between the exile and Kreia? In KOTOR1 somewhere it is mentioned that sudden changes in alignment can break the bonds. They talk about a master who looses his bond with his padawan when the padawan defected to Revan and falls to the dark side.
The fact that people hate her even after the game is over demonstrates the superiority of Kreia as one of the best villains to ever come out of a video game. I love how they masterfully handled Kreia as a character; a character who has a real reason for doing what they did, and highly intelligent reasons at that, without invoking pity. And she was such a breath of fresh air in that she transcended the traditional light/dark two dimensional spectrum of star wars (the scene when she scolds you for giving money to the beggar was amazingly honest and well thought out. Bravo at Obsidian for creating such an ethically deep character.) She viewed her own actions not as "good" or "evil", but her own actions in and of themselves. She made a hell of a lot more convincing villain than Malak, who ran around shouting "Crush, kill, destroy!"
It's a shame that so much of the final parts of KOTOR2 were cut: it would have not only made influence that much more important in the game, it would have solidified Kreia's place as a terrific villain.
If there is a third KOTOR, there needs to be a villain like Kreia. I think the fact that she was such a personal villain (as opposed to Nihilus and Malak, who just sort of sat around in their ship blowing up planets and waiting for you to fight them) is what makes people hate Kreia. She claims the moral superiority, and backs that beef up with solid reasons, and it challenges people to ask themselves questions they might not want to answer. And on top of it all, she isn't completely without reason: she intensly loves the exile and cares so deeply for them, that being the reason she did things the way she did. Sometimes the best lessons in life are the most painful ones; and Obsidian did a fabulous job at demonstrating this.
as for other areas, I am probably the polar opposite of eveyone else: I want this game to focus almost completely on Jedis (there is a reason it is called "knights" of the Old Republic) I want lightsabers to be just as, if not more stronger. I think the engine is fine the way it is (faithful to the D20 system) and would only like to see a graphical overhaul and perhaps a bit more depth (in terms of weapon customization and variety of weapons and armor.) Maybe this isn't so maverick, but I would like to see more devotion to romance. I actually think that KOTOR2 would have been fine influence wise had they not gone and cut out much of the final moments of the game. The fact that Kreia was pitting jealous lovers against the beloved makes for great story telling.
I want to play as a hero, dammit. I like my main character being a badass. I love Romanticism and it's portrayal as man as a heroic ideal, not as something to be scorned or hated or ridiculed. That is how I like my heros: heroic. I thought the Traya academy was a blast simply because of the fact that it was easy: it demonstrated the strength your character possesed.
P.S something huge caught my eye last time I played through the game: Kreia says Mira's death occurs in many years time saving some people on an unknown planet. Is it just me, or could that be a total foreshadowing of KOTOR3? I would love to see that scene played out, especially because it says Mira dies with no regrets. It would make for such a noble scene.
P.S.S someone was griping about where the force bond went to between the exile and Kreia? In KOTOR1 somewhere it is mentioned that sudden changes in alignment can break the bonds. They talk about a master who looses his bond with his padawan when the padawan defected to Revan and falls to the dark side.
I still think putting you in that position of you being the only person who could save the world is a bit thin. While you should be very powerful, and the Trayus part was enjoyable for that, it just needs a background change. I want to fight in massive battles with a load of other Jedi Knights, be sent on missions by the council, play the role of a Jedi Knight. Not some unknown who suddenly finds himself defeating everything - even Luke Skywalker wasn't that kind of hero.
Trouts are best tickled in muddy waters
[QUOTE=Darth Lightside]--plot synopsis. You are a jedi at an enclave (probably Dantooine for plot reasons) and there is a disturbance that you are sent to investigate. [/QUOTE]
(I didn't want to quote the whole thing, to long) but WOW. That was one of the best, most thought out plots I've seen. You kept all the important parts of the story and intregrated new characters. bravo! Now if Obisidian can figure that much out.
(I didn't want to quote the whole thing, to long) but WOW. That was one of the best, most thought out plots I've seen. You kept all the important parts of the story and intregrated new characters. bravo! Now if Obisidian can figure that much out.
[QUOTE=the torturedOne]
P.S.S someone was griping about where the force bond went to between the exile and Kreia? In KOTOR1 somewhere it is mentioned that sudden changes in alignment can break the bonds. They talk about a master who looses his bond with his padawan when the padawan defected to Revan and falls to the dark side.[/QUOTE]
Yes But Kreia was neither light side or dark side so it made no differnce to her what side you were on.
P.S.S someone was griping about where the force bond went to between the exile and Kreia? In KOTOR1 somewhere it is mentioned that sudden changes in alignment can break the bonds. They talk about a master who looses his bond with his padawan when the padawan defected to Revan and falls to the dark side.[/QUOTE]
Yes But Kreia was neither light side or dark side so it made no differnce to her what side you were on.
But she was neutral ans hot up to dark side, so that is why the bond is broken.
Something for KOTOR 3:
Prob been mentioned somewhere, but the Dark Jedi and Sith lords sould be more powerful.
In KOTOR 1, I was in the temple on the Rakatan homeworld and came across this sith master who was using insanity and drain life al over the place which made him tough to beat. In KOTOR 2, you can go through the entire academy and not have to use and master heals of life support packs as a sith lord. force storm or confusion work miricles and mean you dont get injured.
So if they use force powers and be more your equal, it would be better. If each Sith Lord could be as strong as you, that would be fun.
Something for KOTOR 3:
Prob been mentioned somewhere, but the Dark Jedi and Sith lords sould be more powerful.
In KOTOR 1, I was in the temple on the Rakatan homeworld and came across this sith master who was using insanity and drain life al over the place which made him tough to beat. In KOTOR 2, you can go through the entire academy and not have to use and master heals of life support packs as a sith lord. force storm or confusion work miricles and mean you dont get injured.
So if they use force powers and be more your equal, it would be better. If each Sith Lord could be as strong as you, that would be fun.
- Darth Zenemij
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[QUOTE=Dead!]oh right, because your alignment is not sudden, you dont go from neutral to dark/light in 1 go, you do it gradally over the game but Kreia was neutral 1 minute and then dark the next which is sudden.[/QUOTE]
Kriea took the Role of Darth Treya, I guess she really wanted to be her or something really badly. Either that or that is who she was before she was stripped pf the force completly. But taking the assumed role of a Dark Lordett (female lord ) makes you ans instant dark sider. Plus she was the master of Bertayal.
Kriea took the Role of Darth Treya, I guess she really wanted to be her or something really badly. Either that or that is who she was before she was stripped pf the force completly. But taking the assumed role of a Dark Lordett (female lord ) makes you ans instant dark sider. Plus she was the master of Bertayal.
I decend from grace in arms of undertow...
[QUOTE=Magrus]I think you and I would end up in the hospital trying to drink together... Oh its a shame you live so far away man. We could have so much fun! Well... maybe. We might end up in jail after we get out of the hospital.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Magrus]I think you and I would end up in the hospital trying to drink together... Oh its a shame you live so far away man. We could have so much fun! Well... maybe. We might end up in jail after we get out of the hospital.[/QUOTE]
- maverick8088
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[QUOTE=sheehanjuk]- sith gain levels quicker(dark side suppose to be easier) but in long haul weaker. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=dorian_gray]This would be contrary to the movies in which the dark side is stronger, as said by George Lucas himself.[/QUOTE]
I beg to differ...
The Empire Strikes Back
Yoda rides on Lukes back as he trains in Dagobah's swamps...
Yoda: "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will. As it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."
Luke: "Vader...Is the dark side stronger?"
Yoda: "No, quicker, easier, more seductive."
Luke: "But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"
Yoda: "You will know, when you are calm, at peace..."
Notice not more powerful. George didn't direct ESB, but he was a very hands on producer and wrote most of the screenplay. So I'm not sure what your source is for the GL quote, but it's wrong. Sheehanjuk has the more Star Wars correct idea.
As for Kotor3 ideas, what about a multiplayer where you can use your player character. Then we could test out which saber styles and crystal combos were more powerful. With the feats introed in kotor2 for precise shot and close combat there would be a blaster presence as well. Not an MMORPG, as was suggested earlier, but a deathmatch kind of thing still using the D20 setup and paused combat. It would be complex but could be fun. Just a thought.
[QUOTE=dorian_gray]This would be contrary to the movies in which the dark side is stronger, as said by George Lucas himself.[/QUOTE]
I beg to differ...
The Empire Strikes Back
Yoda rides on Lukes back as he trains in Dagobah's swamps...
Yoda: "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will. As it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."
Luke: "Vader...Is the dark side stronger?"
Yoda: "No, quicker, easier, more seductive."
Luke: "But how am I to know the good side from the bad?"
Yoda: "You will know, when you are calm, at peace..."
Notice not more powerful. George didn't direct ESB, but he was a very hands on producer and wrote most of the screenplay. So I'm not sure what your source is for the GL quote, but it's wrong. Sheehanjuk has the more Star Wars correct idea.
As for Kotor3 ideas, what about a multiplayer where you can use your player character. Then we could test out which saber styles and crystal combos were more powerful. With the feats introed in kotor2 for precise shot and close combat there would be a blaster presence as well. Not an MMORPG, as was suggested earlier, but a deathmatch kind of thing still using the D20 setup and paused combat. It would be complex but could be fun. Just a thought.
They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty. And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har-Maged'on - Revelations 16:14,16
The Wheel Of Time turns and Ages come and go. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under Shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.
The Wheel Of Time turns and Ages come and go. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under Shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.
- dorian_gray
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If i am choosing between your opinion on star wars and that of George Lucas, i think i'll have to go with GL.
I'm laughing my ass of at you saying George Lucas is wrong to say that the dark side is stronger. He created it. If he says dark side is stronger, it is stronger. If you want to make your own story with light side being stronger/equal, then do it. But in the Star wars universe created by George Lucas, he has determined that the dark side is more powerful. Thats it.
Still laughing...as if it is up to YOU to determine who has the 'more star wars correct idea' (whatever that means). I mean seriously, just because it doesnt agree with what you want doesnt change anything.
BTW quote is from George Lucas commentry on AOTC.
As for yoda...so what? Yoda didnt design and create the Star Wars universe. he was obviously trying to disuade Luke from the dark side. Anyway, in a case of GL vs Yoda on who is right about the Star wars universe, GL wins. GL created the star wars universe and if he says 'dark side is more powerful', then it is. What Yoda, Vader, the Emperor, Luke, that Wookee thing or anyone else says within the story doesnt matter. They can be wrong.
I'm laughing my ass of at you saying George Lucas is wrong to say that the dark side is stronger. He created it. If he says dark side is stronger, it is stronger. If you want to make your own story with light side being stronger/equal, then do it. But in the Star wars universe created by George Lucas, he has determined that the dark side is more powerful. Thats it.
Still laughing...as if it is up to YOU to determine who has the 'more star wars correct idea' (whatever that means). I mean seriously, just because it doesnt agree with what you want doesnt change anything.
BTW quote is from George Lucas commentry on AOTC.
As for yoda...so what? Yoda didnt design and create the Star Wars universe. he was obviously trying to disuade Luke from the dark side. Anyway, in a case of GL vs Yoda on who is right about the Star wars universe, GL wins. GL created the star wars universe and if he says 'dark side is more powerful', then it is. What Yoda, Vader, the Emperor, Luke, that Wookee thing or anyone else says within the story doesnt matter. They can be wrong.
- maverick8088
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Dude did you even read my post? I was saying your quote was wrong not that it was my opinion. Like I said in my last post (I hate having to repeat myself) those lines were approved, if not written, by George Lucas. If he wanted to make the Dark side stronger, he could have right there with a simple line from Yoda like "Yes, Luke it is stronger, but it is destructive to the wielder..." or something like that. But instead, we have the dialog I quoted earlier. It wasn't changed for the Special Edition, the Special Edition DVD, and will in all likelihood be there when he re-releases in '08 with the 3-D version. Nothing is untouchable to him in these Special Editions, he changes what he doesn't agree with, like Vaders face w/o the mask in ROTJ. Bottom line is GL is such a control freak about these movies, do you think he would allow something that disagreed with his concept in such a pivotal scene as that? The dual nature of the Force is largely defined in those scenes for all the movies.
So there is no "GL vs Yoda" debate. It's all GL and if thats what he says on AOTC then he's changed his mind. All the Games, books, movies, graphic novels, The SWSB(Star Wars Sourcebook), everything bearing a Lucasarts stamp of approval has it that the Dark side is quicker and easier but not more powerful.
Nowhere is this more evident than the Graphic Novel by Dark Horse Comics "Dark Empire" The ending on that had Luke and Leia defeating the reborn Emporer by channeling pure light force energy at the embodiment of the Dark side (emporer). Luke comes right out and says, after falling to the dark side and apprenticing himself to Palpatine, the light side is stronger. None of this would exist if not approved by GL.
Actually, I thought GL lost the right to definitively comment on the Star Wars Universe when he decided Jar Jar would be a good idea.
Now, if you wish to continue this discussion I suggest we move it to it's own topic, perhaps on SYM, as it does not directly relate to the discussion at hand.
So there is no "GL vs Yoda" debate. It's all GL and if thats what he says on AOTC then he's changed his mind. All the Games, books, movies, graphic novels, The SWSB(Star Wars Sourcebook), everything bearing a Lucasarts stamp of approval has it that the Dark side is quicker and easier but not more powerful.
Nowhere is this more evident than the Graphic Novel by Dark Horse Comics "Dark Empire" The ending on that had Luke and Leia defeating the reborn Emporer by channeling pure light force energy at the embodiment of the Dark side (emporer). Luke comes right out and says, after falling to the dark side and apprenticing himself to Palpatine, the light side is stronger. None of this would exist if not approved by GL.
Actually, I thought GL lost the right to definitively comment on the Star Wars Universe when he decided Jar Jar would be a good idea.
Now, if you wish to continue this discussion I suggest we move it to it's own topic, perhaps on SYM, as it does not directly relate to the discussion at hand.
They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty. And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har-Maged'on - Revelations 16:14,16
The Wheel Of Time turns and Ages come and go. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under Shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.
The Wheel Of Time turns and Ages come and go. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under Shadow. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.
- alpha_hazard
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Lucas did not create the idea of dark against light. It's an age old story telling tool.
As for whether or not the dark side is stronger, I'm not sure the quote is correct. Thoose who lean towards the dark side tend to have a better command of the force, and manipulate it to their will, while those on the light side listen to the force and channel it. Neither is stronger or more powerful, otherwise there would be no struggle, one would win out over the other.
***Spoilers***
The Dark side also has the tendency towards control and order, as evidenced by dark nihilus as visas marr reveals
While the light side tends to be more organic and flowing, not neccesarilly chaotic, but when compared to the stark order created by dark side wielders, it can appear as such
And for god's sake...it's a fantasy world, there is no use bickering over who is right...By placing his work out there, Lucas is forced to accept the fact that people are going to interpret it however they want.
As for whether or not the dark side is stronger, I'm not sure the quote is correct. Thoose who lean towards the dark side tend to have a better command of the force, and manipulate it to their will, while those on the light side listen to the force and channel it. Neither is stronger or more powerful, otherwise there would be no struggle, one would win out over the other.
***Spoilers***
The Dark side also has the tendency towards control and order, as evidenced by dark nihilus as visas marr reveals
While the light side tends to be more organic and flowing, not neccesarilly chaotic, but when compared to the stark order created by dark side wielders, it can appear as such
And for god's sake...it's a fantasy world, there is no use bickering over who is right...By placing his work out there, Lucas is forced to accept the fact that people are going to interpret it however they want.
- MasterEwok
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The Dark Side vs Light Side debate isn't as easy as saying one is stronger then the other. The two are complete and total opposites dark side is about Control over the force and comanding it & using Emotion to enhance this control, mean while the Light side is about Embrasing the force and guiding it & using peace and calm to further allow your self to be at one with the force. Neither one is more powerful it just allows a different way to achive the same goal. Just like some trees are extemly thick & strong to portect them from the wind while others are very flexible both serve the same end which is to prevent them from falling over just go about it in very different ways. Both have Pro's & Con's but ultimitly what should determine if Light is stronger then Dark or vicea versa is the conection you have to the force either the amount your willing to embrace it or the amount you dare try control.
I agree with MasterEwok. I might be a bit boring with my reference to New Jedi Order Series but it's the only material other than movies that GL created (he created basic story, made all important decisions about story development that other author just build on) and in 13th book of the series it's said that there is NO light or dark side, there is ONLY the Force and that the light or dark come from within individual (I think Kreia hinted something like that at some point). Something about that if you are calm, composed and unemotional you are using light side and in not dark. That might explain why Luke is considered light sider even after he used force to kill over a million people (blowing up the first Death Star).
Oh, and if Dark side is stronger how come that it loose all the wars it waged on the light side? Lets check the timeline:
7000+ (?) years before TNH: Group of Jedi want to study Dark side - they got defeted and exiled, they encounter Sith and subjugate them
5000 years before TNH: Sith Empire wages war on Jedi and Republic and loose - Sith got extinct as a result
4000 years before TNH: Exar Kun wage war on Jedi and loose
1000 years before TNH: Last Jedi-Sith War - Sith is completly defeted, only two Sith remain - Darth Bane and his apprentice
20 years before TNH: Emperor and Darth Vader defeat Jedi only to be defeated 25 years later by Luke Skywalker
It remains a question why did Emperor won the war. Is it because his control of the dark side of the force or because Anakin was a kid that's supose to "Bring Balance To The Force"? The fact remains that Anakin did "Bring Balance To The Force". I mean before his turn to the dark side there was 1000+ Jedi and only 2 Sith (Emperor and Dooku), while after his turn and extinction of Jedi there were 2 Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and 2 Sith (Emperor and Vader) which means that force was in balance.
Oh, and if Dark side is stronger how come that it loose all the wars it waged on the light side? Lets check the timeline:
7000+ (?) years before TNH: Group of Jedi want to study Dark side - they got defeted and exiled, they encounter Sith and subjugate them
5000 years before TNH: Sith Empire wages war on Jedi and Republic and loose - Sith got extinct as a result
4000 years before TNH: Exar Kun wage war on Jedi and loose
1000 years before TNH: Last Jedi-Sith War - Sith is completly defeted, only two Sith remain - Darth Bane and his apprentice
20 years before TNH: Emperor and Darth Vader defeat Jedi only to be defeated 25 years later by Luke Skywalker
It remains a question why did Emperor won the war. Is it because his control of the dark side of the force or because Anakin was a kid that's supose to "Bring Balance To The Force"? The fact remains that Anakin did "Bring Balance To The Force". I mean before his turn to the dark side there was 1000+ Jedi and only 2 Sith (Emperor and Dooku), while after his turn and extinction of Jedi there were 2 Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and 2 Sith (Emperor and Vader) which means that force was in balance.
It's not supposed to be as simple as numbers if you ask me. You're thinking of it as "Jedi" and "Sith", not the force, which flows through everything. Anakin brought balance to the force through his children, who stopped the Emperor's distructiveness (he had the ability to destory entire planets let's face it).
I'm not sure "balance" means that dark and light are equal, in numbers or in power, I think it means peace. Or why would the council agree (on a majority) to train Anakin, knowing that the balance he would bring would wipe them all out?
I'm not sure "balance" means that dark and light are equal, in numbers or in power, I think it means peace. Or why would the council agree (on a majority) to train Anakin, knowing that the balance he would bring would wipe them all out?
Trouts are best tickled in muddy waters
- dorian_gray
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[QUOTE=Ripe]I agree with MasterEwok. I might be a bit boring with my reference to New Jedi Order Series but it's the only material other than movies that GL created (he created basic story, made all important decisions about story development that other author just build on) and in 13th book of the series it's said that there is NO light or dark side, there is ONLY the Force and that the light or dark come from within individual (I think Kreia hinted something like that at some point). Something about that if you are calm, composed and unemotional you are using light side and in not dark. That might explain why Luke is considered light sider even after he used force to kill over a million people (blowing up the first Death Star).
Oh, and if Dark side is stronger how come that it loose all the wars it waged on the light side? Lets check the timeline:
7000+ (?) years before TNH: Group of Jedi want to study Dark side - they got defeted and exiled, they encounter Sith and subjugate them
5000 years before TNH: Sith Empire wages war on Jedi and Republic and loose - Sith got extinct as a result
4000 years before TNH: Exar Kun wage war on Jedi and loose
1000 years before TNH: Last Jedi-Sith War - Sith is completly defeted, only two Sith remain - Darth Bane and his apprentice
20 years before TNH: Emperor and Darth Vader defeat Jedi only to be defeated 25 years later by Luke Skywalker
It remains a question why did Emperor won the war. Is it because his control of the dark side of the force or because Anakin was a kid that's supose to "Bring Balance To The Force"? The fact remains that Anakin did "Bring Balance To The Force". I mean before his turn to the dark side there was 1000+ Jedi and only 2 Sith (Emperor and Dooku), while after his turn and extinction of Jedi there were 2 Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and 2 Sith (Emperor and Vader) which means that force was in balance.[/QUOTE]
Just because the dark side loses wars doesnt mean it is less powerful. Use your brain for a moment. There could be many reason for their defeat:
1) fighting amongst themselves
2) outnumbered by light side massively
3) overconfidence (GL said that the dark side is stronger but they have the draw back of overconfidence).
4) most 'powerful' doesnt always win a fight
That is a very weak argument to use.
Oh, and if Dark side is stronger how come that it loose all the wars it waged on the light side? Lets check the timeline:
7000+ (?) years before TNH: Group of Jedi want to study Dark side - they got defeted and exiled, they encounter Sith and subjugate them
5000 years before TNH: Sith Empire wages war on Jedi and Republic and loose - Sith got extinct as a result
4000 years before TNH: Exar Kun wage war on Jedi and loose
1000 years before TNH: Last Jedi-Sith War - Sith is completly defeted, only two Sith remain - Darth Bane and his apprentice
20 years before TNH: Emperor and Darth Vader defeat Jedi only to be defeated 25 years later by Luke Skywalker
It remains a question why did Emperor won the war. Is it because his control of the dark side of the force or because Anakin was a kid that's supose to "Bring Balance To The Force"? The fact remains that Anakin did "Bring Balance To The Force". I mean before his turn to the dark side there was 1000+ Jedi and only 2 Sith (Emperor and Dooku), while after his turn and extinction of Jedi there were 2 Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) and 2 Sith (Emperor and Vader) which means that force was in balance.[/QUOTE]
Just because the dark side loses wars doesnt mean it is less powerful. Use your brain for a moment. There could be many reason for their defeat:
1) fighting amongst themselves
2) outnumbered by light side massively
3) overconfidence (GL said that the dark side is stronger but they have the draw back of overconfidence).
4) most 'powerful' doesnt always win a fight
That is a very weak argument to use.
- MasterEwok
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Oh come on here first of all as some one earlier pointed out Light vs Dark is a story tool used since the dawn of civilization okay. And no offense but in almost all these stories good concers evil. And you saying that all the wars the sith lost coulda been coinsidence i mean come on here te sith would have won at least 1 war if they were the more powerfull and no Anikan and the Emporer didn't win the war because there was still factions of the old republic rebeling against the emporer but Luke didn't win this war either since after the emporer died there was still Empirial forces around Neither side has ever Won thats the point. The Jedi may force the sith to ay dormint for a while but thats just for a little while. Dark side isn't more Powerfull it's pretty acuratly protrayed in the game (let's forget about achiving dark side/ lightside points cuz i don't agree all the aligment shifts are acurate) Dark side has some very powerfull and destructive powers meanwhile light side has some very powerfull buffs and is capable of doing just as much damage just in a different way. All your seeing is the Easy road to power which if you've watched the movies IS WHAT THE DARK SIDE IS the fast track to power meanwhile the light side is the slower way to go. And to use the analagy of the tortus and the hair we all know who wins that race. But as i said before i truly don't think either sides more power full they seem pretty balanced like a Ying Yang.
One or two wars perhaps. But ALL the wars trough out milleniums - NO WAY.Just because the dark side loses wars doesnt mean it is less powerful. Use your brain for a moment. There could be many reason for their defeat:
1) fighting amongst themselves
2) outnumbered by light side massively
3) overconfidence (GL said that the dark side is stronger but they have the draw back of overconfidence).
4) most 'powerful' doesnt always win a fight
Well, I was thinkind about "Jedi" and "Sith" more as a representation of two ways to use the force. As for why they decided to train Anakin, they didn't, they were forced to allow that becose that was Qui-Gon Jinn's last request that Councill choose to grant. I don't think that they consider this as a way to restore balance. Luke and Leia maybe stop Emperor but they didn't bring peace to galaxy becase 25 years after Endor there's still Imperial Remnant. It took a invasion by Yuzhaan Vong and destruction of about 1/4 of the galaxy to unite everyone and bring peace to it.I'm not sure "balance" means that dark and light are equal, in numbers or in power, I think it means peace. Or why would the council agree (on a majority) to train Anakin, knowing that the balance he would bring would wipe them all out?