Welcome to the Magi Wing of Blades of Banshee

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 1:37 pm

Originally posted by Dottie:
Doesnt a chain shirt give like 20% spell failure?

Yes, that and 30% better survival chances.

You have a better way to live past level 1? Weak, frail, Stoneskin-less, Mirror Image-less, 5 Hit Point wuss with Fighter friends with saves so bad they can't always be there for you... Gimme that -4 AC!

Stray arrow...

*shudders*

Originally posted by Rail:
You (mages) have a reputation to mend.

Wasn't me! Wasn't there! You couldn't have seen me! I was below, fixing the.. ah... something.

Originally posted by Garcia:
how will you be able to choose your appearance?

From what I understand, NWN gives total freedom. Your appearance depends on your race, a body type you choose, and the equipment you decide to wear.

Originally posted by Rail:
I'm a progressive paladin.

Good!

Those are the best. We need more of those.

Originally posted by Rail:
haven't you ever bought and sold something? What are the credentials for being a merchant? Don't you qualify?

*runs off and buys an apple for 1 copper*

*sells apple back for 0 gold*

There. I qualify. No need for you to lie on my account. Aren't I flexible?

Originally posted by Dottie:
I think a bard is the best thing so far, after all it does motivate some low level spell casting.

Yeah, until someone asks you for healing... Yes, 3E Bards can cast Cure spells.

"Uhm... I'd like to save my spell slots for something, ah... more important."

Originally posted by Dottie:
the whole point of the robes and the pointy hat is that others sould recoginze him and fear him(or atleast show proper respect) perhaps one can just hide in a tower or cellar or whaterver, sending his trusted familiar out on the mundane errands, this way you can keep your dignity

My dignity would have to be looong gone before you see me with a pointy hat!

Originally posted by Classic:
If this Argyle place is so hostile towards wizards wouldn´t it be dangerous to be a spell casting bard too? They are after all casting wizard spells.

I think it's not so much the arcane spells, but rather a certain reputation mages have earned, not through casting spells, but through committing horrible acts. I don't think Bards are put up there with mages simply because they can cast some of the same spells.

Originally posted by Classic:
You could make your wizard 2 meters tall and wide shouldered. Grab a long sword and nobody would have a clue.

Garcia · Post by **Garcia** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:47 pm

I like the idea that you have total freedom to wear whatever you want. it is more realistic in stead of fighter that finds a robe:"Uhhh 40% cotton and 60% polyester! Nice! Can I wear this can I huh? Can I?"
"I don't know look at the little mark in the neck"
"Rats! "Mage only" I can't wear it and it went so nice with my new belt"

Come on of course he should be able to do that and it gives a new aspect to the game. Now you don't know there "profession" by the looks but only by there deeds plus you can as said before "hide" or take on a different personality.....KEWL!

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:47 pm

Well then Xyx, filling up the boards again are we?

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Oct 04, 2001 4:09 pm

Originally posted by Nippy:
Well then Xyx, filling up the boards again are we?

Yes, some good discussion, finally.

Place had been all but deserted for about two weeks.

<IC>

So, my fellow... eh...

oO(underlings)

... colleagues,

have we any worthwhile research results to share with our fellow Wing members?

o0(Motivating these sloths is like pulling t... Hey, where'd I hear that before?)

</IC>

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 1:46 pm

Well maybe you wizards could get up early every morning, take a job, do a few hundred crunches, and lift some weights so you look like some warrior with all the muscles, and could spend the rest of the day studying.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 3:14 pm

Well *all* we need is to get our hands on Stoneskin asap or plenty of invisibilities.

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:33 am

Anyone know if the "Still Spell" feat is going to be in? With this feat you can wear any armor and still cast spells witnout the chance of spell-failure. Of course you´d have to memorize the spells at one level higher but it just might be worth it.....think magic full plate for AC bonus +8 and a shield to go with that!!!!

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:40 am

I don't know how much "metamagic"(that is what it is called, isn't it?) is in the game at this time.
Metamagic is one of the reasons I still cling to my wizard, but I'm starting to think more about a sorcerer for my character

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:20 pm

Hey, sorcerer or mage; that´s just a matter of playing style!! In the module that comes with the game it´s probably best with a sorcerer if you plan on going solo, but with a party the mage is much more versatile.

In independent modules (if you plan on playing with a friend or two or on the net) it´s just a matter of how your DM does his job. Any class should be entertaining and fun if your DM knows his/her stuff!!

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:37 pm

Well again, it is dependend on how much metamagic is in NwN, because the sorcerer can cast up to 2 extra spells per level per day, so there must be something good to counteract this

I can't just imagine me, running around being charismatic

But I don't know yet.

And then - just a warning to the Magi.
As some of you have found out (I can see) Argyle will operate with a permanent dead world.
Wich means no respawning, so resurection and raise dead are only means of returning from the dead.
This means a magi must be extra extra carefull ontop of the fact that we are not well like in that world.
No travelling without a couple of hardy fightertypes - dangerous worlds and "weak" wizards are not a good combination

, so be extra careful out there, okay?

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:45 pm

@ Classic: A very nice, generic "Don't worry, be happy!" kind of reply, but could you be a bit more specific as to why a Wizard is more versatile in a party?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:58 pm

I think that is the general oppinion because a wizard knows more spells that the sorcerer, but on the other hand can cast fewer a day.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 3:41 am

Well, if you can...

cast more spells
don't have to decide in advance which spells you are going to cast

...I'd say you're more versatile.

If you can learn 10 different spells, but only memorize one of them, how versatile is that?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 4:23 am

I know.
That is one of the reason why I am considereing shifting to a sorcerer.
But if metamagis is implemented - such skills as maximise spell, still spell, quicken spell are nice little things

Unfortunally one has to memorises them as 1-2 levels higher though

[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: Xandax ]

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 8:02 am

Well, the wizard gets higher level spells one level earlier than a sorcerer for starters!

If a sorcerer is 5´th level he´ll know 2(!!) lvl. 2 spell and be able to cast it 4 times a day. A 5´th level wizard can know all spells of lvl. 2 and memorize 2 per day. In addition he can know all lvl. 3 spells and memorize 1. That makes a huge difference.

If you play a fire oriented sorcerer and you pick a fight with the lord of a local area of the plane of elemental fire (or something like that) you´re in deep s...!!! A wizard can memorize according to situation he is in and with a party to back him up he can make a huge difference.

In a one-on-one fight with normal monsters the sorcerer would be lightyears ahead of the wizard!! For slugging it through a dungeon, he would be better if you met alot of melee oriented monsters.

Those are basically the differences, so, as you can see, both classes have certain advantages, but none is inherently better than the other.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:02 am

Originally posted by Classic:
Well, the wizard gets higher level spells one level earlier than a sorcerer for starters!

Indeed, but if you look at the Sorcerer memorization table you'll see why:

A level 4 Wizard can cast 3 level 1 spells and 2 level 2 spells.
A level 4 Specialist Wizard can cast 4 level 1 spells and 3 level 2 spells.
A level 4 Sorcerer can cast 6 level 1 spells and 4 level 2 spells.

Point for point...

Sorcerers get 1.5 times the number of spells Wizards get.
Wizards can learn loads more spells than Sorcerers.
Sorcerers don't have to memorize stuff in advance.
Sorcerers can apply meta-magic effects as needed, again without having to memorize them beforehand.
Sorcerers have to spend more time casting a meta-magicked spell than Wizards (a full round instead of a standard action).
Sorcerers are proficient in a few more (lame) weapons than Wizards (maces, flails, spears and slings, most notably).

That's all the statistical differences I know of! Hope it helps.

[edit] Added in some dots...

[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: Xyx ]

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:27 am

Acording to some rules I've seen from the PHB the wizard will get 1 extra feats every 5 level wich must be used on metamagic - don't know if this is in NwN.

There is also something called spell mastery:

Spell Mastery: A wizard (and only a wizard) can take the special feat Spell Mastery. Each time the wizard takes this feat, choose a number of spells equal to the wizard's Intelligence modifier (they must be spells that the wizard already knows). From that point on, the wizard can prepare these spells without referring to a spellbook.

Don't know excatly what this is, and if it will be in NwN (but I would imgaine so)

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 2:52 pm

The spell mastery just means that someone can steal your spellbook and you´d still be able to memorize those chosen spells simply because you know them so well. It´s not such a great thing as I don´t think NWN will operate with a tangible spellbook (of course, privat servers could!!).

Xyx: Slight correction - only 3 lvl. 2 spells for the sorcerer.

For the meta-magic casting time extension for sorcerers and bards; are you aware of the significance here?! A whole extra round for full action spells!!! Can you say spell disruption ?!

And I still think it´s worth noting that at odd levels the wizard has access to a spell of higher level than a sorcerer of equal level. At level 5 this means a "Fireball" instead of "Melf´s Acid Arrow"!!!

The extra feat per 5 levels for wizards can be used for meta-magic feats, item creation feats, or the spell mastery feat.

Being able to scribe scrolls is nice but this will probably (sadly!!!) not find it´s way into NWN.

All in all I think the classes a pretty nicely balanced. Which one you choose depends on your playing style and (maybe) your DM.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 1:10 pm

Originally posted by Xandax:
the wizard will get 1 extra feats every 5 level wich must be used on metamagic

Oh, yeah. That was the main Wizard perk.

Originally posted by Classic:
only 3 lvl. 2 spells for the sorcerer.

Oh, yeah. /me blind...

Originally posted by Classic:
For the meta-magic casting time extension for sorcerers and bards; are you aware of the significance here?! A whole extra round for full action spells!!!

Yes, that's definitely something to keep in mind. However, no-one is forcing you to use meta-magic when you're in danger of disruption. And since you can decide to use meta-magic on the fly, you can still more or less make the best out of every situation. Moreover, and this is useful mainly in PnP, Sorcerers and Bards don't have to be prepared. If your mage gets ambushed and wakes up gagged and tied, will he have a silent, still spell ready to get him out? If you're a Bard; maybe (takes quite high level spells which Bards usually lack). If you're a Sorcerer; probably. If you're a Wizard; only if you're a fortune teller.

Not saying it's better to be a Sorcerer in this case, though. I'd have to see how it actually works out in NWN.

Originally posted by Classic:
All in all I think the classes a pretty nicely balanced. Which one you choose depends on your playing style and (maybe) your DM.

And on what will make it into NWN, sadly enough...

I don't see roleplaying Wizards and Sorcerers that differently. There's hardly any character type imaginable that couldn't apply to both, only more to one than the other.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:26 am

*loose window shutter squeaks in the wind*

This place is sooo dead.

Right...

Any potential Wizard players ever consider that scrolls might be kinda rare in Argyle?

If the Scribe Scrolls Feat doesn't make it into the game, you can probably count on finding perhaps one (1) scroll per quest, if you're lucky.

Sorcerers' limited spell selection doesn't look so limited anymore now...