GameBanshee Forums

Kefka1983 wrote: Might be better for a newbie like me on the first time through.

A couple of Druids with the spell entangle and everyone using ranged weapons - usually works incredibly well with low-level characters.

Entangle basics = (at the same time) fire off two entangle spells that are centered *near* each other but not in exactly the same place - to provide good overlap and a better chance of holding opponents. Remember Entangle not only has the opportunity to hold opponents, but will usually slow them (unless they have sufficient spell resistance). Kill the ones that are "slowed" and then start in on the ones that are held. A Cleric can get this with the domain Plant. A Cleric can also get Grease with the domain Trickery.

Its fairly useless against spell resistant creatures though unless you have levels maxed (no level penalty), spell penetration feats, and are up against opponents of equal level or lesser level. It isn't exclusively for Fortitude save type opponents - even high dexterity Reflex save opponents will likely be slowed.

That spell with ranged attacks and some healing can go a LONG way.

Mz_Trixter wrote:Here's another formation you could try since it does start off pretty rough around the beginning.

Hopefully it stays that way! (..tired of these pantie-waste games.:laugh

Pros vs. Cons

I dont know 'bout anyone else, but Im loving the random (EL 6+) fights
They make the game more of a challenge when you "think" you're ready for anything... it gets you off gaurd and you have to reload :laugh:

But it's also good exp if you live through it And to add to it, they keep on comin back for more!!!

Just one thing Im finding a tad annoying, is having to flip through the other party members when they have other things to say... but I guess it's still better than not having none. Also the camera... I constantly have to fix the angle to my preference.
a real nuisance.

I think I might try a

1)rogue/bard
2)fighter
3)cleric
4)druid

Should I swap in a wizard for one of those? Maybe instead of the rogue/bard?

How high level did you get before it got really difficult? What level do you start the game?

I have only gotten as far as ship salvaging in the very beginning.

I should say, it wasn't impossibly hard but I routinely had at least one death in the party and I didn't know how to resurrect at that point. I dislike dying in rpgs so I keep re-rolling to try and get the mix of builds "right".

Should I hang on to the 2k gold that Sa'Sani gives me or should I spend it?

Sounds like an intriguing game...no I don't have this one yet. I had just planned that party some time ago with the idea of designing a whole party. I would just play it through without any guide or anything once...maybe get some help weighing the options on builds..(from people who have read the manual unlike me ) and just play as far as you can get. You might even make it through the whole game and its much more engaging to take risks than to follow a guide like some zombie...you might miss a few gold but it more fun!

Kefka1983 wrote:I think I might try a

1)rogue/bard
2)fighter
3)cleric
4)druid

Should I swap in a wizard for one of those? Maybe instead of the rogue/bard?

You will likely want 2 base characters for performing non-fighting actions (..AND be good at fighting of course):

1. Dialogue - Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate, (and possibly Appraise).
2. Unlock and Search/Disable traps.

There really aren't enough skill points available to get this all-in-one character.

BOTH characters will need *good* skill point distribution throughout their builds.

Dialoge: (replace selection #1 Bard/Rogue)

Race Human

Strength 16 (always increase Strength at level-up)
Dexterity 12
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 8
Charisma 16

Level 1 Bard; Feats: Able Learner and Power Attack. (Hold-over 5 skill points for Level 2 - Intimidate.)
Level 2 Fighter; Feat: Cleave
Level 3 Bard; Feat: Battle Caster.
The rest Bard with feats (in order): Great Cleave, Blind Fight, Improved Critical Flachion, up to you but you should pick a melee feat like Weapon Focus Flachion OR my personal fav. - Knockdown.

Skills: Major: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Listen, Perform. Minor: Appraisal, Lore, Spellcraft.


Lock-picker and Trapper: (replace selection #2 Fighter)

Race: Wood Elf

Strength 16
Dexterity 18 (always increase Dexterity at level-up)
Constitution 12
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 12
Charisma 8

Level 1 Rogue; Feat: Able Learner
Level 2; Ranger; Feat: (Track and Favored Enemy: Undead)
Level 3 Ranger; Feat: Point Blank Shot (and Archery Style)
Level 4 Ranger; Feat: (Toughness)
Level 5 Ranger; Feat: (Animal Companion: Boar or Bear)
Level 6 Ranger; Feat: Weapon Focus Longbow (and Favored Enemy: Outsider)
Level 7 Ranger; (Archery Style improvement)
Level 8 Wizard (Generalist); Feat: (Scribe Scroll)
Level 9 Arcane Archer; Feat: Improved Rapid Shot (and Enhance Arrow +1)
Level 10 AA; Feat: (Imbue Arrow X3)
Level 11 AA; Feat: (Enhance Arrow +2)
Level 12 AA; Feat: Improved Critical Longbow (and Seeker Arrow x1)
Level 13 AA; Feat: (Enhance Arrow +3)
Level 14 AA; Feat: (Seeker Arrow x2)
Level 15 AA; Feat: Blind Fight (and Enhance Arrow +4)

Skills: Major: Disarm Trap, Pick Locks, Search, Spot. Minor: Craft Trap, Hide, Move Silently, Set Trap, Survival.


Notes:

The substitution for Fighter instead of Rogue for the Bard build removes the BAB penalty and actually adds +1 to attack (..net +2 vs. a Rogue mult-class). It also provides an extra feat. The Bard then becomes your melee champ - with additional spells like Mirror Image, the "Visages", Displacement/Improved Invisibility, Haste, and Bladeweave. There are also the "inspirations", particularly Inspire Courage and Inspire Defense for battle, and Inspire Competence for skill increases.

The Archery based Ranger has better attack numbers, more attacks (with Rapid Shot and Many Shot), AND usually does more damage (for several reasons) - than a melee character. The Rogue class and the Feat Able Learner "unlocks" the skills needed - the addition of the sneak attack damage on this class combination that potentially has some stealth ability is purely a bonus. The Wizard class unlocks the AA class, and the "hit" to your attack number is more than made-up with the AA's enhancements.

Thanks, so I keep the cleric and druid pure single class?

Kefka1983 wrote:Thanks, so I keep the cleric and druid pure single class?

Sure - or leverage them with other prestige classes that *mostly* preserve their spell casting ability.

You have Doomguide, Sacred Fist, and Stormlord.

If you are interested in a Druid's wild shape (as a wild shape), then perhaps add just one level of Monk.

If you want a better Turn Undead ability (and possibly Turn Outsider) for your Cleric, then consider the Doomguide.

If you want more melee damage - the Stormlord.

If you want a faster character (and perhaps a faster team as a result via Team Rush), then consider a Sacred Fist (..and perhaps also one level of Monk).

I'm going to go wild shape and storm lord. What domains are good for storm lord? Thanks again Scottg.

earth is good for stormlord because you need toughness. war with a god with spears is also good because you get weapon focus spear. darkness is good for blindfight. strength is good for 3rd level divine power (might be the best one unless you are feat starved).

If a druid takes a monk level, what should his stats be? Dex heavy or Wisdom heavy? Thanks again.

A druid should finish with at least 19 Wisdom when they get to 17th level druid. Otherwise they cannot cast 9th level spells. Items count too.

Dex gives AC Wis gives AC so no advantage there

Dex gives AB missile and AB weapon finesse. Wis if Zen archery missile. Advantage Dex

Wis gives higher DCs on spells.

I would rather have more wisdom on a druid because the spells are better and you still get Wis to AC both human and animal. In human form I would cast spells or if you can fit it then take zen archery and point blank shot. I think dex is going to change when you shapechange too if I remember correct.

Ok, two things. I am reading over at Bioware that Shape-changing is horribly bad. Is this the case in SOZ? If it is not the case, what strength score should a druid have for wild shape?

Kefka1983 wrote:Ok, two things. I am reading over at Bioware that Shape-changing is horribly bad. Is this the case in SOZ? If it is not the case, what strength score should a druid have for wild shape?

Just keep in mind, that that's entirely someone(s) opinion. And maybe referring to an entirely different game. I recall shifter druids being relatively tough in other D&D games such as IWD I, but that's not to say it's any different with NwN 2 games. If you wanna know first-hand, test one out

I don't particularily perfer to play as them - but I do know how well, even ridiculously strong they can get at times. They sure do make great tanks though. Also, it depends on how 'well' the build turns out. Every character has a flaw, but that really just shows you where to keep your eye at.

Kefka1983 wrote:Ok, two things. I am reading over at Bioware that Shape-changing is horribly bad. Is this the case in SOZ? If it is not the case, what strength score should a druid have for wild shape?

The wild shape doesn't get good until Plant Shape at 12 level Druid (character level 13 with one level of Monk). Its up to you if you want to wait that long.

I'd likely either do a wisdom based archery character OR a spear user.

EX. Human 16/12/14/10/16/8 (always increasing Wisdom)

Druid level 1-5, Stormlord level 6-15
Starting Feats: Toughness & Great Fortitude
3r level: Weapon Focus Spear
6th level: Blind Fight
9th level: Power Attack
12th level: Cleave
15th level: Great Cleave

OR (a more Defensive build):

9th level: Monkey Grip (for use with a shield)
12th level: Improved Critical Spear
15th level: a melee feat of your choice.

OR (a Zen Archer)

3rd level: Weapon Focus Dart
6th level: Zen Archery
9th level: Point Blank Shot
12th level: Rapid Shot
15th level: Many Shot

All 3 are specifically geared toward maintaining the Druid's spell level progression (up to level 15) - which I think is paramount. (It gets you up to 8th level spells - and Storm Avatar is one of those level 8 spells.) Of the 3 choices I would probably choose the middle choice - i.e. the "Defensive build". My reasoning here is that with good medium armor, a good shield, and higher level Barkskin - you can achieve a *very* good AC level while still having decent attack numbers and good damage. Without the shield you are a bit more vulnerable.

The Archery build just takes too long to get good with offensive physical attacks (their number per round rather than their attack number). You *could* add-in 2 fighter levels (at level 6 & 7), and remove 2 Stormlord levels - THAT would get you your archery feats soon enough to work - but at the expense of level 8 spells (in a 15 level build). The spell Owl's Insight would make for a high attack number (..despite the loss of the +1 from level 9 Stormlord). IMO though, not worth the loss in spell power.

.........

Your Cleric build could also be "powered" by the Stormlord class.

If you think you might run into Undead and Outsiders then I'd go for the Doomguide with the Domains: Evil & Sun. Note that "Outsiders" encompass the largest single group of Enemy classifications - many of them quite difficult to kill (..Undead aren't exactly easier either :laugh .

.........

Here is the Info on the Wildshape forms:

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_Shape

Note that none are really good until level 12 when they become Dire.. and at that point you might as well assume Treant form. The basic Bear form would likely be the best of the lot with a Monk at lower levels. As for a strength number - the wildshape OVERWRITES the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. Meaning if you wanted to you could "hose" all 3 attributes (..though note that you will have several levels before you get wild shape AND that some feats require a certain attribute number before they become optional).

Mz_Trixter wrote:@ Scottg, ...This is a bit off the subject, but Ive been wondering. How and where do you get the time to come up with all those level progession charts? It seems almost all your posts regaurding any certain build, you toss out a near-fully if not fully written (detailed) build. lol.

I just wish I hadn't got so lazy. It just seems a daunting load of work to do for any game(s) to me

I've taken some time off recently and haven't gotten SOZ from Amazon yet. (..a fair amount is also wrapped-up in my head - and a quick "look-see" with Vordans can usually fill in all the details fairly quickly - writing it down here.. THAT takes some time .)

Seriously though, I *do* need to get back to some trust document drafting this week (i.e. actual work with a December deadline). I can however work on both concurrently (and sometimes do).