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What's your plans for Nwn2 SoZ?...

This forum is to be used for all discussions pertaining to Obsidian Entertainment's Neverwinter Nights 2, the Mask of the Betrayer expansion pack, the Storm of Zehir expansion pack, and the Mysteries of Westgate adventure pack.
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Mz_Trixter
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What's your plans for Nwn2 SoZ?...

Post by Mz_Trixter »

Your plans for Nwn2 SoZ? (POSSIBLE SPOILERS)

Hey all, Since the second Xp is pretty much releasing; it felt about the right time to start a place where people planning to try out SoZ could share their ideas about how they plan to start it :)

After reading on the overview and how the game should be layed out. It seems a good portion of this expansion will revolve around the market. Aswell as rough fights on and off.

The combination for my build would most likely include the:
Rogue, Bard or Shadow Thief, and *if* MotB prestige classes are optional (?) Invisible Blade as my primary character. As for any NPC's Im not sure yet.
I should have a less vague setup the more I learn of all the new features :p

This way I don't start off just busting in and killing everything :laugh: More just sneaking, manipulating as I go and if a fights inevitable, then so be it.

If anyone has any other ideas on the game, please enlighten us all :D
''White light beams through darkness, beset by immense haze over a few seconds followed by a loud cacophony. Motionless, the repercussion of your action strikes your feebled mind and senses. Still dazed, the intensity lingers that follows after tripping over your own sonic blind trap.''
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

Similar thoughts..

Rogue 3, Wizard 5, Shadow Dancer 1, Arcane Trickster for as many levels as I can..
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Claudius
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Post by Claudius »

I was thinking about using a party where all the skills are accounted for. I haven't looked at the new classes much aside from swashbuckler, for instance I haven't looked at the Yuan-ti race which I have heard is even stronger than drow.

I was thinking of....(thinking 15 levels is what you can expect at least)

Wood Elf
Ranger 3 Rogue 11 Shadowdancer 1
(in combat backstabbing and HIPsing dual wielding)
Skills: Survival, Spot, Listen, Open Locks +

Human (extra feat better for feint than half elf)
Favored Soul 12 Warlock 2 (Dark Luck, Beguiling Influence) Cleric 1 (Feint, Slippery Mind, Divine Shield)
(in combat dropping dodge AC by feint and hacking with buffs)
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate

Sun Elf
Rogue1 Wizard5 Eldritch Knight 9
(in combat casting and hacking with buffs)
Skills: Spellcraft, Search, Appraise

Human
Bard1 Fighter 4 Red Dragon Disciple 4 Frenzied Berserker 6
(Frenzy everyone and main tank)
Skills: Lore
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Kefka1983
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Post by Kefka1983 »

Claudius wrote:I was thinking about using a party where all the skills are accounted for. I haven't looked at the new classes much aside from swashbuckler, for instance I haven't looked at the Yuan-ti race which I have heard is even stronger than drow.

I was thinking of....(thinking 15 levels is what you can expect at least)

Wood Elf
Ranger 3 Rogue 11 Shadowdancer 1
(in combat backstabbing and HIPsing dual wielding)
Skills: Survival, Spot, Listen, Open Locks +

Human (extra feat better for feint than half elf)
Favored Soul 12 Warlock 2 (Dark Luck, Beguiling Influence) Cleric 1 (Feint, Slippery Mind, Divine Shield)
(in combat dropping dodge AC by feint and hacking with buffs)
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate

Sun Elf
Rogue1 Wizard5 Eldritch Knight 9
(in combat casting and hacking with buffs)
Skills: Spellcraft, Search, Appraise

Human
Bard1 Fighter 4 Red Dragon Disciple 4 Frenzied Berserker 6
(Frenzy everyone and main tank)
Skills: Lore
Hi, could you detail the level progression a little bit for this party, that is, if its not too much trouble? I will have SoZ here in about an hour and I would like to jump in with a good party. Thanks very much.
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Mz_Trixter
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Post by Mz_Trixter »

Eh, well I had do some mix 'n matching but I think I got my starter characters set.

Human (will use 2x Short Swords)
Bard (8) modified > Shadow Thief of Amn (5) > Ranger (2)
Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Appraise, Open Locks, Spot, Disable Traps, Spell Craft
Purpose: Backstabbing, Trapping, Stalking and Walking Retailer :laugh:
*Any further levels will go either into Bard or Ranger, whichever provides better needs*

Dwarf (may use 2x Berserker Axes or Halberd <-any ideas on this? )
Ranger (8) > Frenzied Berserker (7)
Skills: Survival, Search, Spot, Listen, Lore
Purpose: ' The Tank '

I'm pretty satisfied with how the Thief's setup, but if I can get any ideas on how to make the Dwarf better or a better Tanker entirely feel free to say :)
''White light beams through darkness, beset by immense haze over a few seconds followed by a loud cacophony. Motionless, the repercussion of your action strikes your feebled mind and senses. Still dazed, the intensity lingers that follows after tripping over your own sonic blind trap.''
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Post by GoldDragon »

Sun Elf Wizard/ASoCK for Primary Character. When not blasting with spells, uses a longbow.
Dwarf Fighter is main melee. May go Dwarven Defender or Weapon master, haven't decided. Will eventually use a Dwarven Waraxe.
Human Cleric of Kelemvor. Already meets ALL requisites (other than level 6) for Doomguide (the "Doom Guy" from one of the preview/interviews). Second Melee.
Wood elf Ranger with a few levels of Rogue (only 1 rogue atm). Second Archer.

Wood elf has most of the needed feats for the overland map.

The Wizard and the Cleric are female, and I think that there may be something going on behind the scenes with the Rnager and Wizard..........

Cleric's the Talker, with High Diplomacy. Dwarf has High intimidation.
-- GD
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Post by Claudius »

Kefka I could give more detail but I don't know much about the new feats and changes in the new expansion. There is more feats I think. But I think those characters I listed would be pretty strong even if you were unsure how to put the stats/feats/skills. The characters should all have con at 14 and 12 for the elf(s). They should take enough intelligence to keep up with the skills I mentioned. The shadowdancer/ranger should have a high dexterity. The favoured soul should have a high charisma and a 14 in STR...he will start with Able Learner and Negotiator feat and then take 10 levels of favored soul. He will take power attack at 3rd level and extend at 6th level your choice at 9th and at 12th he'll take a level of cleric and grant himself feint, slippery mind from domains (you can change the slippery mind). The cleric has to be taken on a feat level so you can get divine shield. Then get to level 12 favored soul. Take a level of warlock at 15 to grab dark luck. The Eldritch Knight will start with 18 intelligence and high dexterity. He will take Weapon Finesse and use a Rapier. He will take crafting feats unless you can make items with NPCs outside of the characters you create. The last one needs Power Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave to be a frenzied berserker. Try to take blindfighting especially on the noncasters.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Scottg
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Post by Scottg »

Multiple characters with SOZ?

Then I think I'll go with a full HIPS (Shadowdancer) party. (..I've been wanting to do that for a while now..:mischief :)

All Strongheart Halflings (..extra feat, dexterity bonus, thrown weapon bonus, move silently bonus, AC bonus, rogue favored class.)

SD level at character level 8 (earliest possible).

HIPS should allow *all* characters to hide - even with scripted battles.

Where sneak attack isn't viable - should have magical attack AND/OR traps set.

Sneak Attack with DARTS (or shuirkens) - gives additional room for running to hide without being hit. Still, should select the Dash feat (unless utilizing a class with a speed bonus like a Monk).

Dart throwing - you only *need* point blank shot here (NOT weapon finesse). You can add on rapid shot, manyshot, and improved rapid shot, BUT you really only need **one** attack to hit with sneak attack damage (hide.. rinse and repeat).

Skill point distribution: One character to handle dialogue, another to handle traps & lock picking. All characters maxing Hide and Move Silently.

My secondary character selection will be a:

Swashbuckler 3/ Rogue 3/ SD 1/ Assassin for as many as possible.

While the HIPS of the SD and Assassin overlap - it still gets you HIPS *much* earlier. Dexterity and Intelligence - similar to the other character. Intelligence gives a better Death Attack chance for paralyzation, and it will add-on as damage via the Swashbuckler's 3rd level feat.

I've tested Death Attack's paralysis feature and it does work within about 10 feet of the opponent with thrown weapons. :cool:
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Post by Kefka1983 »

Scottg wrote:Multiple characters with SOZ?

Then I think I'll go with a full HIPS (Shadowdancer) party. (..I've been wanting to do that for a while now..:mischief :)

All Strongheart Halflings (..extra feat, dexterity bonus, thrown weapon bonus, move silently bonus, AC bonus, rogue favored class.)

SD level at character level 8 (earliest possible).

HIPS should allow *all* characters to hide - even with scripted battles.

Where sneak attack isn't viable - should have magical attack AND/OR traps set.

Sneak Attack with DARTS (or shuirkens) - gives additional room for running to hide without being hit. Still, should select the Dash feat (unless utilizing a class with a speed bonus like a Monk).

Dart throwing - you only *need* point blank shot here (NOT weapon finesse). You can add on rapid shot, manyshot, and improved rapid shot, BUT you really only need **one** attack to hit with sneak attack damage (hide.. rinse and repeat).

Skill point distribution: One character to handle dialogue, another to handle traps & lock picking. All characters maxing Hide and Move Silently.

My secondary character selection will be a:

Swashbuckler 3/ Rogue 3/ SD 1/ Assassin for as many as possible.

While the HIPS of the SD and Assassin overlap - it still gets you HIPS *much* earlier. Dexterity and Intelligence - similar to the other character. Intelligence gives a better Death Attack chance for paralyzation, and it will add-on as damage via the Swashbuckler's 3rd level feat.

I've tested Death Attack's paralysis feature and it does work within about 10 feet of the opponent with thrown weapons. :cool:
Hmm, that sounds like a really hard way to play through. Am I wrong?
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Post by Claudius »

A lot of micromanagement but it might be fun.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Post by Scottg »

Kefka1983 wrote:Hmm, that sounds like a really hard way to play through. Am I wrong?
Both more difficult, and conversely quite a bit easier.

I tested both types of characters, (though for the Assassin with 3 fighter levels instead of 3 swashbuckler levels), against a variety of opponents.

It does work at every level provided you can run far enough away, (which isn't to far), to hide - and if you have enough room to run it works very well. Once you get HIPS it is a LOT easier (..click on "hide").

None of it "plays" (fights) like a normal game of NWN's, and the biggest difference is against mobs of opponents. You don't simply wade-in and take-on everyone (a'la armored fighter with great cleave). Nor do you (always) fire off a few fireballs and hope you cast them (in the correct location) before you get beaten-to-death. :D

Here you:

1. cast a summon to distract opponents and then make attacks of opportunity, or

2. cast grease/web (or some other form of "hold" spell) and "fling" darts within 30 feet of your opponents, or

3. run and hide and:

Set traps.:mischief: A few traps (as high as possible) can take out a LOT of opponents, or can "hold" them - depending on the type of trap.

OR with HIPS you can also do the sneak/death attack for each opponent.

- and that is the "difficult" part.

It gets very easy when its against only a few tough opponents - *extremely* easy if they aren't immune to criticals/sneak attack.

It does require more "micro-managing", but that can be more interesting to play AND it can result in an over all easier game-play in difficult situations.

In this respect it kind of reminds me of ToEE. Most people usually say they found that game difficult, but I thought it was easy. The reason: I planned out a group combination that primarily focused on the spell Entangle (druid 1st level) and every one using ranged weapons to pick-off each held opponent.

What you specifically do NOT do is the typical: cast spells and rest, cast spells and rest, etc. (..with a party that is sleeping more often than doing anything else).

Of course all of the above is in reference to fighting.

Because of the character's high intelligence, high skill points, and broad selection of skill points; other areas like dialogue, purchasing, detecting and disabling traps, opening locks, etc. - will probably be much easier.

Two more interesting points:

They are actually both capable of casting spells (though not with the same power). Typical scenario:

Wizard scribes spell, passes scroll spell to Assassin. Assassin uses scroll spell with "use magic device". ;) You do of course have to plan-out which spells are most efficient.

Also because of the higher dexterity - ranged touch attack spells have a better "shot" at hitting opponents.. and there is a "critical" component with this type of attack (with a feat to decrease the critical's threat range).
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Post by Kefka1983 »

Are the ECL races worth using, even with the level penalty? I am using two of them right now but haven't gotten far enough to tell.
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Post by Claudius »

Because theres no cap to level essentially (well you have to farm endlessly to hit 30) it is much less of an advantage to be an ECL race. But some builds need the stats of an ECL race to 'work'. I think some kind of elf non ECL is what you want for your detect character. Human is probably one of the best non-ECL races. Yuan-ti is supposed to be so good but might not make up for the loss of levels. Same story with drow. Aasimar might still be worth it for a Paladin for example because its only 1 ECL for +2 CHA +2 WIS.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Post by Kefka1983 »

Ahh, I'm using Grey Orc and Yuan Ti. I will probably re-roll.
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Post by Scottg »

You could probably make up the difference with random travel encounters for 1 level penalty, and maybe 2. (..if I'm understanding SOZ correctly.)

If that's correct then at the least your Grey Orc shouldn't be a problem.

That's unlike the OC - where there didn't seem to be any additional spawns. (..rather more like MOTB, or more specifically BG2.)
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Post by Kefka1983 »

Anyone else getting their butt kicked on the beach while salvaging the ship in the first "mission"? I'm just not strong enough to survive getting surrounded by all the raptors and batiri. I'm using the party that Claudius describes in this thread.
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Post by Claudius »

Its a party that takes a while to get going...

I PM you my recommendations for the Ranger and Favored Soul...I'll get the others to you later...I need a break!
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Post by Scottg »

Kefka1983 wrote:Anyone else getting their butt kicked on the beach while salvaging the ship in the first "mission"? I'm just not strong enough to survive getting surrounded by all the raptors and batiri. I'm using the party that Claudius describes in this thread.
Use "hold/incapcitation" type spells..

If your opponents have a high reflex save then look to spells with fortitude saves, or the alternative.

against - high Reflex opponents: use Cleric lvl 2 Soundburst, Wizard lvl 2 Gust of Wind ,Balagarn's Iron Horn, or Cloud of Bewilderment.

against - high Fortitude opponents: use Wizard lvl 1 Grease or lvl 2 Web.

If you can melee attack with the spells - OK. If not, use ranged attacks.

Make sure everyone focuses their attack on one opponent at a time if possible.
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Post by Kefka1983 »

Thank you for the detailed PM Claudius. While I work on getting this going, can anyone recommend a party that will have an easier time from the get-go? Might be better for a newbie like me on the first time through.
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Post by Claudius »

I hate to just speculate based on my experiences in the OC..which I had elanee casting barkskin which helped a lot...maybe a pure cleric with plant domain instead of the favored soul and a pure bard as the conversation man. That leaves a fighter type character an arcane...maybe a fighter 8 Dwarven Defender or Frenzied Berserker....and the arcane maybe a Wizard/ArcaneScholarofCandlekeep.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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