GameBanshee Forums

Philos wrote:@Lazigothi,
Yes, unfortunately it only lasts something like 3 or 4 rounds. The necklace that Renal Bloodscalp gives you before taking on the vampires is really good to give to a character if you plan to send that one in alone against one or more of the vampires. No level drain, period!!!

And since vampires are a rather run of the mill monster when one is protected from level drain, one decent fighter with that amulet is typically more than enough to dispatch the vampire lairs en masse. Throw in some basic tactics like using Daystar's free sunray, and using potions of invisibility to position oneself well (and backstab if a thief) and it's not very difficult just to leave the party out by the big door and send a single character in to go clean the place out. In a way, throwing in the advantages of another permanently protected character with the mace of disruption, or someone wielding Azuredge is almost superfluous.

Perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the game, particularly given their role in the main storyline, was the general weakness of the vampires. It might be interesting if a mod were to make vampires more like assassins, perhaps specifically using bat or mist forms to hunt down susceptible party members rather than just loafing around in the usual AI way. Especially with all the Prot. from Undead scrolls available in the game, party members without at least basic protections against attacks (and whether in a single sight line or not) should be eaten fairly quickly if hanging out around a vampire lair.

Ian Kognitow wrote:And since vampires are a rather run of the mill monster when one is protected from level drain, one decent fighter with that amulet is typically more than enough to dispatch the vampire lairs en masse...

Perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the game, particularly given their role in the main storyline, was the general weakness of the vampires...

I respectfully disagree with your assumptions and your conclusions. First of all, a minor point: a Fighter (or a Thief or a Fighter/Thief) cannot wear the Amulet of Power, so you need something else to protect them against level drain, such as spells that last only a few rounds. Or you might even send in your characters without any sort of protection and take your chances. (That's what I did when I sent in a Kensai/Thief with Boots of Speed and Potions of Invisibility to slaughter them--he was successful, but he wasn't completely unscathed.)

Second of all, the designers intended for you to follow a path that provides suitable challenges as long as you follow their suggestions (which are strongly hinted at). For example, the vampires are NOT easy to defeat if you start Chapter Three as soon as you have raised 15,000 gold pieces instead of waiting until you have completed all of the sidequests available in Chapter Two. If you don't play the game the way the designers intended, then it doesn't do much good to complain about a lack of balance. Have you tried to beat the vampires with a 10th Level party on Core Rules or higher without using cheese tactics (like equipping all of your party members with Scrolls of Protection Against Undead)? I don't think it's easy at all for a first time player. Have you fought the vampires on the streets of Athkatla at night while observing the prohibition against magic (or suffering the wrath of the Cowled Wizards while you're already occupied with vampires)? Personally, I think the vampires are deadly enough under those conditions to be considered formidible. If you can't play the game without meta-gaming or using cheese tactics and you're disappointed, there's not much the designers can do about it. On the other hand, you can raise the difficulty level or install a mod like Tactics, but I don't think those are suitable for inexperienced players.

When it comes to evaluating game balance, I think the primary consideration is what an encounter is like for a first time player. What's it's like for someone who has played the game over and over is important, but it's only secondary. If you do a bunch of meta-gaming or use a lot of powergaming tactics or cheese, then hardly anything in Shadows of Amn is challenging, especially if you complete Watcher's Keep before Chapter Three. Encounters like the Twisted Rune are still a lot of fun, but it's very easy for a first time player to miss that encounter, and that in itself helps to maintain the balance. If you use a walkthrough (which the designers probably expected but didn't "intend"), that changes the balance. To a first time player who doesn't cheat or use walkthroughs, almost every encounter causes a lot of fear and apprehension. That's my experience, anyway.

VonDondu wrote:
When it comes to evaluating game balance, I think the primary consideration is what an encounter is like for a first time player. What's it's like for someone who has played the game over and over is important, but it's only secondary. If you do a bunch of meta-gaming or use a lot of powergaming tactics or cheese, then hardly anything in Shadows of Amn is challenging, especially if you complete Watcher's Keep before Chapter Three. Encounters like the Twisted Rune are still a lot of fun, but it's very easy for a first time player to miss that encounter, and that in itself helps to maintain the balance. If you use a walkthrough (which the designers probably expected but didn't "intend"), that changes the balance. To a first time player who doesn't cheat or use walkthroughs, almost every encounter causes a lot of fear and apprehension. That's my experience, anyway.

It is interesting playing with my wife. I have familiarity with rpg's, Forgotten Realms, and she's completely unfamiliar. With this in mind, it's still amazing that even though she may not get the significance of, say, meeting Drizzt, but she finds easy battles where they proved difficult for me and vice versa. The spiked room was a breeze for her, while I needed some advice first. (I was anticipating facing a vampire more difficult than the one previously guarding the room & the spikes.)