Graveyard Tombs (Spoiler)

Lazigothi · Post by **Lazigothi** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:51 pm

I entered the room of spikes and blood and the trap effects snagged all my characters with heavy damage as they crossed half the room. Finding out that this is where Mr. L will choose his final showdown, is there a way to avoid/ reduce the spike damage? I gather you have to go far enough into the room to target him. Will fireballs be enough?

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Have one person hasted, and preferably protected from some of those nasty things vampires can do, go in there to draw him out. One with lots of hit points. If you have Azuredge try using that on him. You may get lucky and kill him outright.

Sparrow · Post by **Sparrow** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:31 pm

What I do is send in my character with the most hit points, to within sight of Lasarus (?). This gets him to chase you back to your party, where you can start the fight. I pick a route straight down to the pool, and then tightly around the pool. I might get hit with one spike this way.

EDIT: Well, Onkel Bob beat me to this, we posted at the same time.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:01 pm

Alternate Route

I have used the "lure him out" tactic too. But I have found a route where you can get around to him without taking ANY spike trap damage.
**spoiler**
Have one character start right at the room entrance to "hug" and follow the southern wall around to where you encounter Lassel (sp). I have done this several times without taking 1 point of spike damage.

DaemonJ · Post by **DaemonJ** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:00 pm

If I walk straight to the pool I don't take any damage. I then walk to the left staying close to the pool until I can see the enemy. Since I usually have Korgan throwing the Azure Axe I get an instant kill before he takes 3 steps.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:05 pm

The last two times I've played the game, killing Lassal was easy because I had someone in my party who was perfect for the job--a 7th Level Kensai dualled to a 10th Level Thief. (It was actually Yoshimo--I changed his class with Shadowkeeper but kept everything else about him the same.) I didn't send my whole party across the trapped room, so the damage taken by my party was minimal. My Kensai/Thief snuck cross the room and backstabbed Lassal with Celestial Fury and then killed him with a couple more hits. Celestial Fury has the ability to stun your opponents, which renders them unable to fight back. One of the spellcasting vampires (she appeared earlier in the quest, standing in front of the entrance to the trapped room) was actually a lot more dangerous since she used more protection spells than Lassal (Stoneskin, Mislead, etc.) and had a better chance to charm my party members. A 10th Level Sorcerer who uses fire damage spells or an Inquisitor with the Helm of Charm Protection can easily take care of her.

I realize that not everybody uses powergaming characters and tactics, so they might be saying, "I don't have characters like that in my party, so I'd like to know how I can beat the vampires with the party members I've got." We could offer you more advice if you told us who is in your party and what kind of equipment and spells you are using.

DaemonJ · Post by **DaemonJ** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:16 pm

VonDondu wrote:The last two times I've played the game, killing Lassal was easy because I had someone in my party who was perfect for the job--a 7th Level Kensai dualled to a 10th Level Thief. (It was actually Yoshimo--I changed his class with Shadowkeeper but kept everything else about him the same.) I didn't send my whole party across the trapped room, so the damage taken by my party was minimal. My Kensai/Thief snuck cross the room and backstabbed Lassal with Celestial Fury and then killed him with a couple more hits.

Now that is a cool idea for Yoshimo and might actually make him worth having.

VonDondu wrote:One of the spellcasting vampires (she appeared earlier in the quest, standing in front of the entrance to the trapped room) was actually a lot more dangerous since she used more protection spells than Lassal (Stoneskin, Mislead, etc.) and had a better chance to charm my party members. A 10th Level Sorcerer who uses fire damage spells or an Inquisitor with the Helm of Charm Protection can easily take care of her.

So true! I had a heck of a time with her. She was probably the toughest of all the vampires in the entire tomb.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:09 pm

I had my Undead Hunter, Anoweenie and Boo (along with Minsc) all protected from Energy Drain and they cleaned house. I did better with brute force than I did previously with a well planned strategy

.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:29 pm

On my last trip through I used Anomen. Didn't even need the rest of the party. Anomen was wearing the energy drain protection necklace. He walks through with turn undead on and vampires explode like popcorn.

"Great fun, eh Boo."
Lassal was especially hilarious. I sent Anomen around the edge (with turn undead enabled) and stopped just as he and Lassal saw each other. Lassal engages Anomen in conversation, making all his boasts and claims. Conversation ends, Lassal goes hostile and "POW" explodes into pieces.

Pretty cool idea for Yoshimo. May have to try that one.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:54 pm

Pellinore wrote:I did better with brute force than I did previously with a well planned strategy .

What's wrong with using brute force?

Philos wrote:On my last trip through I used Anomen. Didn't even need the rest of the party. Anomen was wearing the energy drain protection necklace. He walks through with turn undead on and vampires explode like popcorn. "Great fun, eh Boo."
Lassal was especially hilarious. I sent Anomen around the edge (with turn undead enabled) and stopped just as he and Lassal saw each other. Lassal engages Anomen in conversation, making all his his boasts and claims. Conversation ends, Lassal goes hostile and "POW" explodes into pieces.

Vampires are 11th Level or higher (I think Lassal is 14th Level), and a Cleric has to be seven levels higher than a monster to make it explode (great fun, as you say), so that means Anomen was at least 18th Level when you fought the vampires. Sounds like a pretty big mismatch to me.

Philos wrote:Pretty cool idea for Yoshimo. May have to try that one.

Just make sure you do it the right way. Set his hit points to a low number you can remember (so you can subtract those points later), set his level to 0, remove his proficiency points and thieving skill points, and then level him up inside the game. With 161,000 experience points, he can be a 7th Level Kensai dualled to an 8th Level Thief. After you have levelled him up, go back to Shadowkeeper and adjust his hit points (if he exceeds the maximum) and change his paperdoll to Monk. The only problem is that he can't use his katana unless you have a modified version that can be used by a Fighter/Thief. If you give him Celestial Fury, the Boots of Speed (or potions of haste), and a few potions of invisibility, he can kill most of the vampires for you while the rest of your party waits outside the room. (Tanova or whatever her name is might be a problem for him.) He's great fun when you get to Spellhold, too.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:01 am

I have found a number of ways to act as Vampire pest-clearance officer, but it depends on the party
1. good cleric - my skeleton-warrior strategy worked well - after the rather draining Tanova encounter (much worse than Lassel) - send hastened skellies across the room - have a character hug the lower wall and then direct the skellies to where Lassie is waiting on the right-hand side of the room. surround Lassie and then have the character trigger the dialogue then either move off or use missile weapons to help your undead team.
2. Celestial Fury plus haste/speed - walk in - hug wall - trigger dialogue - move back - a few chops of CF usually destroys L before he gets a chance to drain you. sped up - you usually get a stunning blow fairly quickly which reduces the danger
3. simulcrum - so what if it gets drained! helm of ?Valinor? enables a simulcrum to be created. Simulcra are rather handy - especially spellcasters and those with magic items - no charges used!
4. lure - have hasted character lure Lassie back to the hallway - and summon monsters to take the drains whilst the party attacks.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:41 am

@VonDondu,

your

Vampires are 11th Level or higher (I think Lassal is 14th Level), and a Cleric has to be seven levels higher than a monster to make it explode (great fun, as you say), so that means Anomen was at least 18th Level when you fought the vampires. Sounds like a pretty big mismatch to me.

Are you sure it is 7 levels? I know you know BG inside and out. But the reason I ask is that when I did Windspear and Firkraag's Lair (same party much earlier in the game) I sent Anomen in against that pack of 6 vampires on the second level. No necklace at this point, cast Protection from Neg Plane, enabled Turn Undead, and walked into the room. Four of them exploded, and 2 turned and ran. I am pretty certain he was no more than 13th level and IIRC was probably 12th.

Lassal probably was a mismatch, seems like Anomen was 17th or 18th as you guessed. Just a matter of timing, not by design. :laugh: This was the first party I finished the game with, and I had decided to do everything in Ch 2 with that party I possibly could before setting off for Imoen (not knowing what I would face at Spellhold) and try to get as high a level as I could. The only things I didn't do before setting sail were Kangaxx himself and the Twisted Rune. The rest of the game ended up being pretty easy as it turned out.

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:49 am

Similar to the celestial fury tactic, there is also Daystar - sneak up behind, say, Tanova and unleash its free Sunray.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:30 am

Philos wrote:@VonDondu, Are you sure it is 7 levels? I know you know BG inside and out. But the reason I ask is that when I did Windspear and Firkraag's Lair (same party much earlier in the game) I sent Anomen in against that pack of 6 vampires on the second level. No necklace at this point, cast Protection from Neg Plane, enabled Turn Undead, and walked into the room. Four of them exploded, and 2 turned and ran. I am pretty certain he was no more than 13th level and IIRC was probably 12th.

I'm not always right, and I don't always remember things correctly. About three years ago, I did a bunch of testing and posted the results. I didn't realize there was a "Seven Level Rule" until Numinor pointed it out, but given my test results, it seems to hold up.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/baldu ... 26931.html

As you might notice in reading that old thread, I didn't know what I was talking about until I did some rigorous research.

But after putting some work into it, I finally pulled together some conclusive results.

I just looked at some of the monsters with Shadowkeeper, and it looks like most of the vampires are actually 8th Level, not 11th Level. But their levels tend to vary, so you might run into a 13th Level vampire on the streets of Athkatla. I guess only the strongest ones go out hunting. Or maybe it's just a mistake to think that BG2 is ever consistent abount anything.

The one I remembered testing was 11th Level (she was one of the female vampires). Two of Lassal's incarnations are only 8th level, which doesn't make sense to me, but there you go.

Anyway, you need a 15th Level character to make an 8th Level vampire explode. I'm pretty sure about that.

Lazigothi · Post by **Lazigothi** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:20 am

I have an 11th Sorcerer with the negative plane protection amulet.
Then I have Minsc, Keldorn, Yoshimo, Aiery, and Valygar. I'll try the lure strategy, and see if it's enough maybe to just send in a buffed and invisible Valygar or Minsc.

Against the vamps, I've been giving negative plane protection to Minsc & Valygar, hasting everyone, power of one, P from Evil, and Chaotic Commands to Valygar. I have my Sorcerer prepped with Minute Meteors with Tenser's T as a backup in case I need Breach magic. I first send in skeletons to get the vamps distracted.

If Yoshimo gets dominated (well, he always gets dominated. Everone else saves), I have Aiery prepped to put a hold spell on him just for laughs. :laugh: (I can't wait to exchange him with Imoen when this is done.)

Thanks for the responces.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:36 pm

I thought Tanova was much more difficult that Lassal (ripoff of Lestat?) and even more difficult than the first incarnation of B. herself... It took me 2 reloads and I then resorted to putting Neg. Plane Prot. on Minsc, setting him off on a berserk rage and letting him go to town (vamps are his species enemy). Anoweenie with the Amulet and my UndeadHunter made short work of them there vamps...it worked better on the second round. turning is most fun when there is a group of undead. Anomen turning undead in the Pit of the Faithless is just sick....

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Thanks for the thread link

@VonDondu,
Sorry to take a while to reply,

Your

As you might notice in reading that old thread, I didn't know what I was talking about until I did some rigorous research. But after putting some work into it, I finally pulled together some conclusive results.
I just looked at some of the monsters with Shadowkeeper, and it looks like most of the vampires are actually 8th Level, not 11th Level. But their levels tend to vary, so you might run into a 13th Level vampire on the streets of Athkatla. I guess only the strongest ones go out hunting. Or maybe it's just a mistake to think that BG2 is ever consistent abount anything. The one I remembered testing was 11th Level (she was one of the female vampires). Two of Lassal's incarnations are only 8th level, which doesn't make sense to me, but there you go.
Anyway, you need a 15th Level character to make an 8th Level vampire explode. I'm pretty sure about that.

Appreciate the thread. You sure did a lot of work.

It was a while back and my memory is obviously fuzzy. Just seemed different in those cobwebs of mine.:laugh:

Lazigothi · Post by **Lazigothi** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:21 pm

Epilogue

Thanks for all the feedback. I followed the advice to buff Valygar and make him invisible. I had him walk around the perimeter. He went close enough to set off a dialogue, and I just wanted to see if alone he could do it, which he could.

If I can, the tactic of only sending in those that can take enemies out while those prone to get dominated, confused, etc. out of range has proven very useful. I'm noticing though that Negative Plane Protection runs out fast, so it's not useful at least to me if there's a delay between casting it and meeting energy draining foes. In those cases, I have Aierie memorize L. Restoration to cast instead if needed.

(Too bad I can't just equip Minsc with a stake as a weapon and make a called shot to the heart of these things)

Thanks again for the advice.

(My wife just did the scenario herself. She had her entire party march in and beat Lassal with only one person triggering the trap and taking minor damage.)

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:57 am

Very good point!

an arrow through the heart should count as a stake. It would have been possible for a 'natural 20' roll as we used to call it to be through the heart - in fact, perhaps the idea ought to be enlarged to include any stabbing weapon? obviously, it should not be an easy roll to make, as vamps would be conscious of any instant-kill attacks - attempts to behead or stab the heart - the level drain of a vamp ability makes them very powerful, but what about the idea of them having "true seeing" - a vamp could sense the heart-beat of an enemy and therefore they could not be able to sneak up? perhaps fighting with a 'to hit' penalty, but sensing that the enemy is there?
invisible undead would not be caught that way and skeleton warriors made invisible would be able to sneak up unsensed - but living creatures could not backstab.

I like the undead exploding - I did it with Anomen having got him to a very high level (through having a small party of high achievers) - he was also 'turning' undead creatures to fight for the party - I recall in FKs lair - Anomen had vamps and wraiths temporarily on our team. which was nice.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:15 pm

@Lazigothi,

I'm noticing though that Negative Plane Protection runs out fast, so it's not useful at least to me if there's a delay between casting it and meeting energy draining foes.

Yes, unfortunately it only lasts something like 3 or 4 rounds. The necklace that Renal Bloodscalp gives you before taking on the vampires is really good to give to a character if you plan to send that one in alone against one or more of the vampires. No level drain, period!!!