PC vs. PC battle for supremacy - ends speculation once and for all
dispel magic is a area effect spell. It would dispel all of your combat spells and your mislead,improved haste,tenser's transformation, true sight,mantle, project image,simulacrum. and your bloody ego. Then i can start using a long bow with poison arrows, a mage cannot win against a paladin, using dispel magic you don't have the hit points YOURS ROWDIN.
I guess it would also dispel my skeletal warriors i brought with me into battle as they pound on you and your arrows?Originally posted by ROWDIN:
dispel magic is a area effect spell. It would dispel all of your combat spells and your mislead,improved haste,tenser's transformation, true sight,mantle, project image,simulacrum. and your bloody ego. Then i can start using a long bow with poison arrows, a mage cannot win against a paladin, using dispel magic you don't have the hit points YOURS ROWDIN.
Guys, (and of course girls)
Please remember that we are only talking about a game. Also make sure that none of the posts are meant as personal attacks. It is okay to argue different viewpoints, but let's keep it to that.
Thanks,
-Flagg
------------------
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Please remember that we are only talking about a game. Also make sure that none of the posts are meant as personal attacks. It is okay to argue different viewpoints, but let's keep it to that.
Thanks,
-Flagg
------------------
<A HREF="http://www.gamebanshee.com/poolofradiance" TARGET=_blank>GameBanshee's Pool of Radiance
</A> Make your gaming Scream
Flagg
[url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/poolofradiance"]GameBanshee's Pool of Radiance[/url]
Make Your Gaming Scream!
[url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/poolofradiance"]GameBanshee's Pool of Radiance[/url]
Make Your Gaming Scream!
genesis tell me now you beat the lich in the gate district.i.ve killed that lich ten times now with diffrent pcs. and i.ve never killed him so easy, he did not have a chance,
he did not get the chance to cast any spells
apart from his contingency, it was over in less then two rounds. dispel magic then chop
chop, i had 1+ sword and 2+ flail level 12
how what are you going to do, its not a matter
of tactics its a matter of time. my boy isnt the best but he will beat any mage in the game or person, the only thing your boy can do
is cast, and you won't get the chance. the point to a duel is not wot you bring with you
its wot you do after the bell. nothing but die. YOURS ROWDIN
he did not get the chance to cast any spells
apart from his contingency, it was over in less then two rounds. dispel magic then chop
chop, i had 1+ sword and 2+ flail level 12
how what are you going to do, its not a matter
of tactics its a matter of time. my boy isnt the best but he will beat any mage in the game or person, the only thing your boy can do
is cast, and you won't get the chance. the point to a duel is not wot you bring with you
its wot you do after the bell. nothing but die. YOURS ROWDIN
Rowdin, I don't know if you've beaten the game yet...it doesn't sound like it but heres a challange for your paladin. Defeat irenicus in the final battle with just your paladin and his dispel magic...that is about as close as you will come to understanding what it would be like to fight a level 17 player controlled sorcerer...if you think that was tough imagine if he actually had someone controlling him.
CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE:
(Or at least a start)
Because BGII does not allowing targeting with spells of friendlies, it's difficult to do a PC vs. PC battle with a spell caster. However, it is easy enough to set up when it is two fighter-types who won't be OFFENSIVE spell casting. For example Ranger vs. Paladin, Monk vs. Barbarian, etc. Note this does allow defensive spell casting no problem (Paladin, special abilities, etc.).
So I "pitted" a 21st level Monk vs. a variety of maxxed-out fighters. All legal under the exp. cap, culled from my and my friend's saved games. I had my BGII-addicted friend come over, we played on opposite sides in round-by-round mode, taking turns with the mouse. AFter many many hours of various matchups, varying strategies, switching sides, etc. our conclusions follow:
1) MONK LOSES EVERY TIME TO A PURE FIGHTER type. This is because his Magic Resistance is useless, as is quivering palm/stunning because at max level all the fighters always make saves. So they have to just stand head to head and battle. This can also be called the victory of equipment over style. Monks lost not only to dual-wielding fighters (quickly) but also to single-wielders (more slowly). It is obvious, Monks have fewer HPs and do less average damange than a barbarian/ranger/figher/paladin/etc equipped with tpyical end of game equipment like Crom, Daystar, Belm, etc. With worse equipment/armor, a Monk might win. With typical high level equipment, Monk always loses.
2) EQUIPMENT/DUAL WIELD WINS. When it is pure fighter vs. fighter it is a matter of equipment and luck (criticals? fumbles?). That simple. Ranger, paladin, barbarian, it does not matter, with this exception: if you single wielding you lose to dual wiedlers. Includes 2handed swords, they are very lame at this level. This is partly because a shield/2handed sword just does not do enough for you to make up for missing another 30-80 dam/round. If you wimped out on HPs with non-18 constitution you are also disadvantaged. Everybody seems to hit on average about the same to each other (everyone had -9 or better AC).
We did not try every possible combination of fighter-types, but it seems clear that when you are above about 15th level as a fighter, it's not the class that matters but the specializations you picked and your equipment. At least, when it's vs. another fighter only.
That's all I can do. IF anyone can figure out a way to battle spell-caster vs. fighter please let me know how it goes. Or if anyone wants to do this fighter vs. fighter on their own let me know if your results match mine.
(Or at least a start)
Because BGII does not allowing targeting with spells of friendlies, it's difficult to do a PC vs. PC battle with a spell caster. However, it is easy enough to set up when it is two fighter-types who won't be OFFENSIVE spell casting. For example Ranger vs. Paladin, Monk vs. Barbarian, etc. Note this does allow defensive spell casting no problem (Paladin, special abilities, etc.).
So I "pitted" a 21st level Monk vs. a variety of maxxed-out fighters. All legal under the exp. cap, culled from my and my friend's saved games. I had my BGII-addicted friend come over, we played on opposite sides in round-by-round mode, taking turns with the mouse. AFter many many hours of various matchups, varying strategies, switching sides, etc. our conclusions follow:
1) MONK LOSES EVERY TIME TO A PURE FIGHTER type. This is because his Magic Resistance is useless, as is quivering palm/stunning because at max level all the fighters always make saves. So they have to just stand head to head and battle. This can also be called the victory of equipment over style. Monks lost not only to dual-wielding fighters (quickly) but also to single-wielders (more slowly). It is obvious, Monks have fewer HPs and do less average damange than a barbarian/ranger/figher/paladin/etc equipped with tpyical end of game equipment like Crom, Daystar, Belm, etc. With worse equipment/armor, a Monk might win. With typical high level equipment, Monk always loses.
2) EQUIPMENT/DUAL WIELD WINS. When it is pure fighter vs. fighter it is a matter of equipment and luck (criticals? fumbles?). That simple. Ranger, paladin, barbarian, it does not matter, with this exception: if you single wielding you lose to dual wiedlers. Includes 2handed swords, they are very lame at this level. This is partly because a shield/2handed sword just does not do enough for you to make up for missing another 30-80 dam/round. If you wimped out on HPs with non-18 constitution you are also disadvantaged. Everybody seems to hit on average about the same to each other (everyone had -9 or better AC).
We did not try every possible combination of fighter-types, but it seems clear that when you are above about 15th level as a fighter, it's not the class that matters but the specializations you picked and your equipment. At least, when it's vs. another fighter only.
That's all I can do. IF anyone can figure out a way to battle spell-caster vs. fighter please let me know how it goes. Or if anyone wants to do this fighter vs. fighter on their own let me know if your results match mine.
tell me wot you did and i'am sorry if i made
personal.i still think a pure blooded mage,
is to weak to fight a paladin. not that my paladin is the best
fighter, my 10,19 swashbuckler, fighter, is.
all i,am saying is that your mage can be beaten by some pcs who in turn could lose
to another pc its a bit like that scissors
paper stone game my swashfighter would lose to a high level mage who new wot they were
doing, has he can't cast. but he would win against my paladin, who in turn would beat a
mage. YOURS ROWDIN
personal.i still think a pure blooded mage,
is to weak to fight a paladin. not that my paladin is the best
fighter, my 10,19 swashbuckler, fighter, is.
all i,am saying is that your mage can be beaten by some pcs who in turn could lose
to another pc its a bit like that scissors
paper stone game my swashfighter would lose to a high level mage who new wot they were
doing, has he can't cast. but he would win against my paladin, who in turn would beat a
mage. YOURS ROWDIN
i.ve beaten the game twice on core rules
once with a 10,20 berserker celric,
then with a swashfighter 10, 19'
irenicus was easy both times. and no i dont
think a paladin solo can win. i've got about
a third of the way so far,but now that the expansion is coming out i think i'll wait
until then to do the hole game again.
YOURS ROWDIN.
once with a 10,20 berserker celric,
then with a swashfighter 10, 19'
irenicus was easy both times. and no i dont
think a paladin solo can win. i've got about
a third of the way so far,but now that the expansion is coming out i think i'll wait
until then to do the hole game again.
YOURS ROWDIN.
Two: Your results bear out the results I had in testing. Monk just doesn't have the hp. However I also noticed the Barbarian seemed to win against and of the other fighter types. But this was equipping them all with the believe -10 AC was the best. Flail of Ages was clearly the game breaker in terms of dueling weapons due to the no-save slow effect.
Are you sure that a dual wielder will win against someone with Sentinel +4, Flail of Ages or Crom Faeyr, etc? I would think that the +5 to AC would cause more than 1 miss per round average which is all that is needed to balance dual wielding out.
Are you sure that a dual wielder will win against someone with Sentinel +4, Flail of Ages or Crom Faeyr, etc? I would think that the +5 to AC would cause more than 1 miss per round average which is all that is needed to balance dual wielding out.
First for your information :
-10 AC is the absolute number. Even if lower than that, you get no more bonus. That is how the game is programmed.
Now for sorceror vs inquisitor...
The inquisitor has 5 Dispel Magic and 5 True Seeing. All the sorceror has to do is to get spell immunity vs abjuration and divination and the inquisitor is totally screwed. And since spell immunity fit well in a spell trigger (it's a level 5 spell), I can put these 2 in it, and improved invisibility (casted on me and triggered by ennemy being seen).
You don't want me to go any more in the details, don't you?
As for another thing : please, PLEASE, everyone... do NOT consider the use of a scroll of protection vs magic in such a duel. There are only 2 such scrolls to be found in the game and these are too precious to be spent on a duel. This, and any level 9 scrolls should be forbidden. That is only fair.
-10 AC is the absolute number. Even if lower than that, you get no more bonus. That is how the game is programmed.
Now for sorceror vs inquisitor...
The inquisitor has 5 Dispel Magic and 5 True Seeing. All the sorceror has to do is to get spell immunity vs abjuration and divination and the inquisitor is totally screwed. And since spell immunity fit well in a spell trigger (it's a level 5 spell), I can put these 2 in it, and improved invisibility (casted on me and triggered by ennemy being seen).
You don't want me to go any more in the details, don't you?
As for another thing : please, PLEASE, everyone... do NOT consider the use of a scroll of protection vs magic in such a duel. There are only 2 such scrolls to be found in the game and these are too precious to be spent on a duel. This, and any level 9 scrolls should be forbidden. That is only fair.