This is the part in the BBC link Obsidian posted that I find most interesting, in light of Bush's proud refusal to accept international help several days earlier:
Meanwhile, the US has given the EU and Nato a list of specific emergency aid it needs for the relief operation.
American officials have asked for blankets, first aid kits, water trucks and food.
I can't help but think that the federal government misunderstood the scope of the problem right from the start.
Finders,Looters..
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Luis Antonio
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In my opinion this is not stuff for the army to control. The army must give support but not be the only responsible for that. The help that they called from NATO and UN was delayed, and the specialized troops have not yet came to the US.
BTW, have you guys seen Chaves offering 1 million dolars and Fidel Castro offering training on hurricane defense capabilities?
BTW, have you guys seen Chaves offering 1 million dolars and Fidel Castro offering training on hurricane defense capabilities?
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.
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fable
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[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]In my opinion this is not stuff for the army to control. The army must give support but not be the only responsible for that. The help that they called from NATO and UN was delayed, and the specialized troops have not yet came to the US.[/quote]
Luis, they didn't call for any help from NATO and the UN, and it wasn't delayed. Bush turned down offers from other nations and organizations to help, nearly a week ago. The offers were all for humanitarian aid.
BTW, have you guys seen Chaves offering 1 million dolars and Fidel Castro offering training on hurricane defense capabilities?
Yes, and this is such grandstanding that no government in its right mind would bother answering. So I do find it amusing. I wonder if the pair worked that routine up together?
Luis, they didn't call for any help from NATO and the UN, and it wasn't delayed. Bush turned down offers from other nations and organizations to help, nearly a week ago. The offers were all for humanitarian aid.
BTW, have you guys seen Chaves offering 1 million dolars and Fidel Castro offering training on hurricane defense capabilities?
Yes, and this is such grandstanding that no government in its right mind would bother answering. So I do find it amusing. I wonder if the pair worked that routine up together?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
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Luis Antonio
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[QUOTE=fable]Luis, they didn't call for any help from NATO and the UN, and it wasn't delayed. Bush turned down offers from other nations and organizations to help, nearly a week ago. The offers were all for humanitarian aid.
Yes, and this is such grandstanding that no government in its right mind would bother answering. So I do find it amusing. I wonder if the pair worked that routine up together?[/QUOTE]
Maybe I used the wrong wording. The cry for help was made too late. Maybe if it was made 24 hrs after the events we'll have that very better.
And yes, yes, they shouldnt bother to answer. Chaves is indeed a rat, but this incident is very good for his internal propaganda, as well as it was to Castro. This is very important for geopolitics here in south america, since the unhappy citizens seem more likely to embrace those ideas than to fight for freedom. Ok, the freedom fighter thing is a north american clichê but I think Bush government shows us how to not be free, and how american people can be narrow minded regarding their own fellow free people. No offense meant of course. It is a very drastic situation, but the tsunami victims seemed to act very better together; so as the victims of ours subtropical storm that made 200 people homeless and 400 other people having material prejudice, but has been - fairly - outshined by the grandeur of Katrina.
Yes, and this is such grandstanding that no government in its right mind would bother answering. So I do find it amusing. I wonder if the pair worked that routine up together?[/QUOTE]
Maybe I used the wrong wording. The cry for help was made too late. Maybe if it was made 24 hrs after the events we'll have that very better.
And yes, yes, they shouldnt bother to answer. Chaves is indeed a rat, but this incident is very good for his internal propaganda, as well as it was to Castro. This is very important for geopolitics here in south america, since the unhappy citizens seem more likely to embrace those ideas than to fight for freedom. Ok, the freedom fighter thing is a north american clichê but I think Bush government shows us how to not be free, and how american people can be narrow minded regarding their own fellow free people. No offense meant of course. It is a very drastic situation, but the tsunami victims seemed to act very better together; so as the victims of ours subtropical storm that made 200 people homeless and 400 other people having material prejudice, but has been - fairly - outshined by the grandeur of Katrina.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.
[QUOTE=Rookierookie]Apparently, on one hand the National Guard shot a 16-year old who was looking for help for a raped and assaulted woman, and on the other hand they were caught playing cards and being generally leisurely.[/QUOTE]
I've made it clear where I stand on National Guardsman. For fear of insulting other members, I won't continue.
All said though, it's unclear what the 16 year old was doing while looking for help, and we do spend a fair amount of time playing cards and being leisurely, it's part of the profession. Plenty of hurry up and wait.
I've made it clear where I stand on National Guardsman. For fear of insulting other members, I won't continue.
All said though, it's unclear what the 16 year old was doing while looking for help, and we do spend a fair amount of time playing cards and being leisurely, it's part of the profession. Plenty of hurry up and wait.
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.
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Luis Antonio
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[QUOTE=Obsidian]
All said though, it's unclear what the 16 year old was doing while looking for help, and we do spend a fair amount of time playing cards and being leisurely, it's part of the profession. Plenty of hurry up and wait.[/QUOTE]
Obsidian, no insult meant by me, but the average civilian dont see the military/emergencial/social supplies services as jobs, but as unexaustible sources of work and action, so it is (at least for me) easy to understad why do this is very harshly looked upon. Playing cards or denying water (such as a Brazilian reported, that the water the army trucks had was for personel use only) is not the atitude expected from the saviors.
All said though, it's unclear what the 16 year old was doing while looking for help, and we do spend a fair amount of time playing cards and being leisurely, it's part of the profession. Plenty of hurry up and wait.[/QUOTE]
Obsidian, no insult meant by me, but the average civilian dont see the military/emergencial/social supplies services as jobs, but as unexaustible sources of work and action, so it is (at least for me) easy to understad why do this is very harshly looked upon. Playing cards or denying water (such as a Brazilian reported, that the water the army trucks had was for personel use only) is not the atitude expected from the saviors.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.
We're not another federal department, we're not the ministry of public works. We are the armed forces. Our job is to go out and be able to kill people. Everything else we do is a secondary role.
Our training is focused on combat. I may be a medic with a broad range of equivalent civilian skills, with plenty of clinical experience, and my training would be helpful to many in a disaster. But the core of my training is the ability to fight, and provide medical care in battlefield conditions.
The infantry, what the average person thinks of when you say soldier, their mission is to close with, and destroy the enemy. They don't build bridges, repair damns, and pull kittens out of trees. They will, but it's not what their trained for.
I think my point is its unfair for the public to view soldiers as "saviours", especially in a non-military environment. Were as out of our element as anyone else. We're a collection of organized bodies willing to work, but its not what were trained for.
As for denying water, its harsh, but that's the way it is. It speaks more to a lack of planning than anything else. Why aren't there 50 water tankers instead of 3? Why hasn't the US government mass purchased every camping water filter from MEC, PUR and Sierra, then distributed them to everyone they see? Why hasn't Dubya called the president of Greyhound bus and said I need 500 buses in New Orleans yesterday, make it happen?
I have no idea, but like in many situations, it's unfair to blame the soldier. We just do what were told.
Our training is focused on combat. I may be a medic with a broad range of equivalent civilian skills, with plenty of clinical experience, and my training would be helpful to many in a disaster. But the core of my training is the ability to fight, and provide medical care in battlefield conditions.
The infantry, what the average person thinks of when you say soldier, their mission is to close with, and destroy the enemy. They don't build bridges, repair damns, and pull kittens out of trees. They will, but it's not what their trained for.
I think my point is its unfair for the public to view soldiers as "saviours", especially in a non-military environment. Were as out of our element as anyone else. We're a collection of organized bodies willing to work, but its not what were trained for.
As for denying water, its harsh, but that's the way it is. It speaks more to a lack of planning than anything else. Why aren't there 50 water tankers instead of 3? Why hasn't the US government mass purchased every camping water filter from MEC, PUR and Sierra, then distributed them to everyone they see? Why hasn't Dubya called the president of Greyhound bus and said I need 500 buses in New Orleans yesterday, make it happen?
I have no idea, but like in many situations, it's unfair to blame the soldier. We just do what were told.
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.