The Grey Griffin Lounge and Coffee House

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Sun May 06, 2001 8:52 am

*Bump* ....again.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun May 06, 2001 5:26 pm

Originally posted by Hazim ibn Gorion:
...looks like a good point to jump in. I had never bothered to scroll down far enough to realize that there WAS a "speak your mind" forum. C Elegans (an elegant name for such a--ahem--curious creature) was polite enough to invite me in for a drink 'n' chat.

Hello, Hazim, nice to see you here.

I very much agree with what you written, and since you are much more eloquent that me, there is no need to comment further on that

@Minerva: How were you taught about the 1492 event, and did you have anything special in mind when you posted the question?

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Sun May 06, 2001 5:37 pm

LOL 'elegant name'. I can only think nematode

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun May 06, 2001 5:52 pm

Originally posted by Waverly:
LOL 'elegant name'. I can only think nematode

Waverly, if I had known I would run into you,

I would never have started naming my computer RPG characters after poor animals often used en mass in research. I realise now that I might regret my choice of username...

Btw, my Diablo II sorceress in named Aplysia after a sea snail often used in pain experiments due to it's large axons

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Sun May 06, 2001 6:01 pm

Those are fine character names

. Don't worry about it. Someone must have thought the creature elegant in some way. Actually elegans (and lepidus) are used frequently, correct?

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun May 06, 2001 6:15 pm

In IWD I named all characters after virus and bacteria transmitting famous disease, so I'm happy I choose C Elegans (my ranger prot in BG2) as a username rather than "M Leprae" or "Yersina P".

I don't know about lepidus, but the C Elegans is used extremely frequently due to its special features (eg every specimen has the same number of somatic cells.) It was the first multicellular creature that got its whole genome mapped.

It got the name "Elegans" because of its elegant, sinus movements. I suppose you need a microscope to catch it, since the worm is only about 1mm long.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Sun May 06, 2001 6:33 pm

I meant the species name. Elegans and forms of the latin Lepidus (charmingly elegant) are used very often. Biologist always find grace in the most unassuming creatures.

perhaps you are better called pravus medicus

(depraved doctor)

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun May 06, 2001 6:41 pm

Oh, I see, I thought you were referring to the animals. Yes, I suppose biologists and zoologists often see beauty and gracefulness where other people do not.

The chemists at my lab often use expressions like "elegant binding pattern" or "beautiful molcular structure". I

unfortunately often fail to perceive what they mean

Depraved? Moi?

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Sun May 06, 2001 6:47 pm

Scientists are such nerds

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Mon May 07, 2001 9:11 am

Originally posted by C Elegans:
@Minerva: How were you taught about the 1492 event, and did you have anything special in mind when you posted the question?

When I was at school, this subject was just changed from the expression "discovered a new world" to "reached to a continent unknown to Europe". Since this is my subject era (I am specialising the 15th and 16th centuries), I don't really like to answer this question myself. I just wondered if other countries still using the word "discovery" for Columbus and others' explorations.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 07, 2001 9:14 am

In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Then he sailed of the edge of the earth, because it was flat. And it still is.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon May 07, 2001 9:58 am

Originally posted by Darkpoet:
In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Then he sailed of the edge of the earth, because it was flat. And it still is.

Yes it is....Columbus always had a man standing by to throw the anchor overboard...in case they ran up on the edge without warning.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Mon May 07, 2001 10:04 am

LOL

Now I understand the US has problems in its education system.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 07, 2001 10:05 am

I agree with you, Weasel. There is no way that the earth is round. I think where the Bermuda triangle is, that's where the earth ends. All of the pictures of the earth being round are artists renditions.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon May 07, 2001 10:12 am

Originally posted by Minerva:
LOL Now I understand the US has problems in its education system.

The Moon is made of Cheese too.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 07, 2001 10:14 am

I heard that the plate ran away with the spoon.

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Mon May 07, 2001 10:20 am

And don't forget the sun revolves around the earth, although some people still think the sun and moon hang on giant threads

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 07, 2001 10:23 am

How do you know? I have seen the strings, I saw a picture of it in a book. The sun and the planets and there moons, are all held up by strings. If they weren't, they would fall on the floor.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Mon May 07, 2001 11:49 am

I had promised CE I’d share my ill-conceived ideas on selection being at work on more than just evolution. Specifically we talked about memes. How can these nebulous concepts bow to any order except the whims of those that give them shape? Quite easily I think.

Of those that understand and believe natural selection is at work in the process of evolution (and god love those that deny even this simple truth) most prefer to draw the line there. Sure, plants and animals evolve as random mutations either enhance or hinder the organism’s ability to reproduce. Survival of the fittest. Nature bloody in tooth and claw. Right? Well, just for starters. People misunderstand the implications of selection and also Tennyson’s famous phrase. The race is not always to the swiftest nor the battle to the strong, just as the most successful organism needn’t be the most graceful or most efficient to our myopic eyes. What of the spider that allows herself to be consumed by her young? Dumb move, right? In the fight for survival she just threw in the towel. No, not at all. ‘She’ doesn’t need to be the vehicle that carries on her genetic material just as living long needn’t be the measure of success. The selector here is passing on your genetic code, not ‘surviving’. Living long would be nice, but seeing to the success of 1000 young bearing your genes is a better tool. We can now see how this trait could be favored and passed on.

So steering this back towards memes, I think all we need do set our definitions correctly and we will see that it works. Memes will be selected on the basis of those that expand and last. No matter how ‘good’ an idea is; if it cannot do these things it will die out as other ideas thrive. And that’s probably where people get lost…Why don’t only the ‘best’ ideas survive if selection is at work? Well just like in the case of the spider becoming food for young, you can’t be so arrogant as to assume you know what is ‘best’. Ironically enough, even though it doesn’t have the benefit of being correct, creationism is a meme that continues to thrive. Perhaps it is elegant in it’s simplicity, or maybe it draws power from association with the ever potent and omnipresent bible.

I had planned including a case in point, or perhaps going over that famous example, the defunct Dvorak keyboard that I have seen cited as proof that selection *won’t* work outside of nature, but decided against it. I’d rather hear what someone else has to say and possibly discuss someone else’s example. Perhaps if I have been convincing, *someone else* can explain how the Dvorak keyboard was a victim of selection after all…

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon May 07, 2001 11:53 am

I still say the earth is flat.