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awww, man, just when I had something really funny to say about defending myself!

Top 5 novels:
Impossible to pick! There are novels I think are important to literature, and there are novels that had a big effect on me. I'll go by age and which books made a big impact:
Grade School: LOTR, Phantom Tollbooth, Chronicles of Narnia, Kafka's Metamorphosis
High School: Demian (Hermann Hesse), The Magus (John Fowles), Stranger in a Strange Land (Robert Heinlein), Lady Chatterley's Lover (DH Lawrence)
20's: By Bizarre Hands (Joe Lansdale), The Marquise of O (Wilhelm Kleist), Tales of Hoffman (ETA Hoffman), Wise Blood (Flannery O'Connor)...it's hard to remember my 20's!!! Lots of gothic literature.
30's: Raymond Chandler, Graham Greene, Cornell Woolrich, Margaret Atwood, Joyce Carol Oates, Jonathan Carroll, Philip K. ****

Scientists:
1. Darwin 2. Einstein 3. Freud 4. Kant 5. Pythagoras

Five most important scientific discoveries:

1) Gravity and the basic laws of physics
2) The structure of the atom
3) Evolution
4) The structure of the cell
5) The structure of the DNA molecule

Top five scientists:

1) Da Vinci
2) Newton
3) Pasteur
4) Niels Bohr
5) Einstein

Top Five Novels:

1984, George Orwell
Ulysses, James Joyce
Slaughterhouse Five, Kurt Vonnegut
Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Dhalgren, Samuel Delany

Originally posted by thantor3:
<STRONG> Five most important scientific discoveries:

1) Gravity and the basic laws of physics
2) The structure of the atom
3) Evolution
4) The structure of the cell
5) The structure of the DNA molecule

Top five scientists:

1) Da Vinci
2) Newton
3) Pasteur
4) Niels Bohr
5) Einstein

Top Five Novels:

1984, George Orwell
Ulysses, James Joyce
Slaughterhouse Five, Kurt Vonnegut
Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Dhalgren, Samuel Delany</STRONG>

1.there is basically nothing known of gravity...it is the law of the effect of gravity, not gravity itself. physics as a whole is a sham.

2. the theory behind the structure of the atom has changed considerably over time.
3. evolution...well, there have been plenty of discussions on this, so i'll refrain on commenting on this one...but come on...
4. i agree, the structure of the cell has helpe dmake strides in medicine.
5. DNA - same as above, and has huge potential for further use...go watson and crick.

i agree with your scientists except i think mendel should replace bohr.

not much for literature...

p.s. tonight was one dollar pint night.

I find it telling that someone toying with the idea of taking issue with evolution is both into his/her pints and not one for literature.

I thought CE wanted novels only, if we are talking any literature, I may just have to replace a few of my choices with Paradise Lost, The Iliad, and the works of Poe.

I’m also rather fond of Le Morte d’Arthur.

@Waverly: I was indeed aiming for novels, even though I myself listed Sidney's Arcadia, which is stretching the definition a bit. Some scholars in literature do view Arcadia as the first modern novel, but most would hold Cervantes Don Quijote as the first.

Top 5 scientific discoveries, no specific order:

1. The heliocentric world
2. Immunisation and vaccination
3. The double helix (ie the DNA structure)
4. Structure of the atom
5. Evolution and common ancestry for all life on earth

@Thantor: I'm happy to see you also list Joyce's Ulysses - all my friends call me a culture snob for liking it

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: C Elegans ]

Originally posted by nael:
<STRONG>3. evolution...well, there have been plenty of discussions on this, so i'll refrain on commenting on this one...but come on...
4. i agree, the structure of the cell has helpe dmake strides in medicine.
5. DNA - same as above, and has huge potential for further use...go watson and crick.
</STRONG>

Without starting another creation/evolution debate, I'd just like to point out that 3 is very much connected to 4 and 5. This years medicine Nobel prize winners is a good example of how evolutionary based molcular genetic studies (of yeast, in this case) and cell studies, led to new diagnostics and future new cures for cancer in man.

Originally posted by C Elegans:
<STRONG>

@Thantor: I'm happy to see you also list Joyce's Ulysses - all my friends call me a culture snob for liking it

</STRONG>

Great minds think alike...

What qualifies as a scientific discovery? A great step in developent of civlizations was Farming, And if you stretch the Sci thing even further i consider the moment when Man became Self-aware rather important.

Now, At the moment I can only come up with 3 Novels that had a large impact on my views of the world and myself;

The chronicle of Thomas Covenant, Stephen Donaldson
Kallocain, Karin boye
Moominpappa at Sea, Tove Janson

i will add the other two when i can figure them out

Originally posted by Waverly:
<STRONG>I find it telling that someone toying with the idea of taking issue with evolution is both into his/her pints and not one for literature.
</STRONG>

i am actually fairly well read, in particular, i have read tons of philosophical texts. which doesn't really qualify as "literature", maybe camus's stuff, or some of sartre's. i unfortunately don't have a whole lot of time for reading for pleasure. i am usually reading journals relating to my profession.

@CE - immunizations is a good one, but very disturbing when you look at the "research" that went into their developments. nothing quite like infecting mentally retarded children.
along those lines, i'd like to throw antisceptics into the arena for best scientific idea.

Originally posted by thantor3:
<STRONG>
Great minds think alike... </STRONG>

posted by Dottie:
<STRONG>What qualifies as a scientific discovery? A great step in developent of civlizations was Farming, And if you stretch the Sci thing even further i consider the moment when Man became Self-aware rather important.

</STRONG>

My definition of scientific discovery, as opposed to other discoveries, inventions or important steps in development, is simply discoveries in areas we traditionally call "scientific", made by using scientific method. Thus, I'd probably define agriculture more as an "invention" and self-awareness as a major development.

posted by Nael:
<STRONG>
i am actually fairly well read, in particular, i have read tons of philosophical texts. which doesn't really qualify as "literature", maybe camus's stuff, or some of sartre's.

</STRONG>

I wouldn't classify "Being and nothingness" as a novel, but "The wall" and "Nausea" are certainly novels, just as Nietzsche's "Also sprach Zarathustra". Some philosophers have used fiction to illustrate philosophical ideas, not a bad concept IMO but it has sometimes caused confusion among the readers.

<STRONG>@CE - immunizations is a good one, but very disturbing when you look at the "research" that went into their developments. nothing quite like infecting mentally retarded children.

</STRONG>

Absolutely true - I never said it was a discovery that would win any prices for ethics and moral just an important discovery. Many important discoveries have a sad and inhumane background. In medical science, there is a black history of experimenting on prisoners and people with psychiatric disorders because those didn't count as having a full human value.

Originally posted by C Elegans:
<STRONG> I wouldn't classify "Being and nothingness" as a novel, but "The wall" and "Nausea" are certainly novels, just as Nietzsche's "Also sprach Zarathustra". Some philosophers have used fiction to illustrate philosophical ideas, not a bad concept IMO but it has sometimes caused confusion among the readers. </STRONG>

nausea was exactly what i was thinking about, and i was also going to mention also spracht zarathustra.
correct me if i am wrong on this, but i believe sartre was the first person to refuse a nobel prize. i think it was for nausea...

Originally posted by nael:
<STRONG>correct me if i am wrong on this, but i believe sartre was the first person to refuse a nobel prize. i think it was for nausea...</STRONG>

AFAIK Pasternak was the first to refuse the price in 1958. It is however widely believed that the Soviet authorities forced him to decline the prize, whereas Sartre obviously refused it for personal reasons.

*yawns* wake me when someone less long-winded comes along

harry

I can't decide... I can't decide even top 5 Japanese novels...

Good evening everyone.

Hello, Grunty. This is a wonderful surprise to see you this time of night.

Why thanks Minerva. My girlfriend is out of town and I've a cold so I can't sleep. Just kicking back and haveing a surf. How's things?

@Grunty: I'm fine, except my left index finger. I cut it rather deep a few days ago, and it's still sore.

I had a good seminar this afternoon, and having a glass of wine (well, not just one glass, I must admit). I'll go to work tomorrow, so I should go to bed, really...

Nice (wine, not the finger ). Sorry to hear about that. I cut myself too. Also have a cold

@Gruntboy: Oh, dear... Have a hot lemon with honey and brandy. That works. It's suddenly became cold, even in Devon. We've fixed our boiler on Wendesday, just in time for this weather.