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Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:22 am
by Mz_Trixter
Scottg wrote:They got it right - it works on the overland map as well.
You no longer need one character that does it all - or even does most of it all (..as I presumed initially with dialogue). Characters can now be as specialized as they should be. It also means that several planned builds no longer need the feat Able learner to "squeeze-out" those additional skills.
Mechanically:
When you get a dialogue encounter it shows all of your party members mini-portraits. If one of the member's portrait has a little "thought bubble" that pops-up on it, then that member has additional options for the conversation. (..clicking on the portrait shows their options for response.) You do only get to choose one dialogue though, so if you like the Intimidate dialogue from one person better than the Diplomacy dialogue from another then you choose the Intimidate choice and loose access to the Diplomacy choice. The "check" seems to be "transparent" - if you have a "bubble" then you have the choice and *presumably* it always works. (i.e. just getting the choice means it works, at least from what I've seen.)
Because of this you now have all kinds of different choices (..depending on the encounter). Spellcraft, Lore, Alchemy,etc..
Just learned something else..
When you are on the overland map, you can choose to use another member of your party as the overland map persona. When you do this it takes on its own particular qualities (rather than your leaders). For instance one of my characters has very high stealth - and he has the ability to evade opponents, and is far less likely to be spotted by hostiles. Likewise my Leader has high craft trap skill - and recently had multiple trap debris (to be turned into devices) that spawned.
When ever I expect a long dialogue scene to come up though, I usually save before 
(this way I can go back if I don't like the outcome). Or if it gets me killed :laugh: Intimidation options do get tempting once in awhile.
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:31 am
by Claudius
I saw on one of the forums I visited that different skills detect different objects. I think Lore detected ruins for example. I think only the party leader in control during the overland map travel gets to make those checks.
So sounds like its great during dialogue but maybe I will make an Indiana Jones "find the lost ruins" type leader where I take high intelligence and ranger and rogue levels and just try to grab the 'trailblazer' skills. Or 2 types and just run over most areas twice. Once with each 'guide'..
I'll try to find the info I was talking about and update this post with it. Here it is:
This is my understanding of OM skill usage thus far based on NWN2 Forum posts. I'm especially interested in OM Detection skills.
OM Detection:
* Hide - Counters Spot.
* Move Silently - Counters Listen.
* Spot - Visual Detection of Creatures
* Listen - Audio Detection of Creatures.
* Disable Device - Detect Tradeable Mechanisms.
* Lore - Detect Ruins
* Search - Detect General Trade Goods.
* Spellcraft - Detect Magical Areas.
* Tumble - Detect Ruins
* Craft Alchemy - Detect Chemical Resources
* Use Magic Device - ?
OM Other:
* Survival - Increase OM Travel Speed.
Communications:
* Bluff
* Diplomacy
* Intimidate
* Taunt
Craft:
* Craft Alchemy
* Craft Armor
* Craft Trap
* Craft Weapon
Other:
* Concentration - Spell Interuption and Counter to Taunt
* Taunt - Reduce AC.
* Tumble - Counter AoO and Add Dodge AC.
* Heal - Use Healing Kits.
* Sleight of Hand - Theft.
* Set trap - Self explanatory.
* Perform - Bardiness Stuff.
* Open Lock - Self Explanatory.
Trade:
* Appraise - Better Prices at Vendors.
So 13 OM skills with Tumble/Lore somewhat (though maybe different mods on checks) redundant. Go go 2x Skill monkeys: Rogue/Ranger/SD and Rogue/Barb/Wizard/EK
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:50 am
by Scottg
Claudius wrote: I think only the party leader in control during the overland map travel gets to make those checks.
....................................
This is my understanding of OM skill usage thus far based on NWN2 Forum posts. I'm especially interested in OM Detection skills.
OM Detection:
* Hide - Counters Spot.
* Move Silently - Counters Listen.
* Spot - Visual Detection of Creatures
* Listen - Audio Detection of Creatures.
* Disable Device - Detect Tradeable Mechanisms.
* Lore - Detect Ruins
* Search - Detect General Trade Goods.
* Spellcraft - Detect Magical Areas.
* Tumble - Detect Ruins
* Craft Alchemy - Detect Chemical Resources
* Use Magic Device - ?
OM Other:
* Survival - Increase OM Travel Speed.
Communications:
* Bluff
* Diplomacy
* Intimidate
* Taunt
Craft:
* Craft Alchemy
* Craft Armor
* Craft Trap
* Craft Weapon
Other:
* Concentration - Spell Interuption and Counter to Taunt
* Taunt - Reduce AC.
* Tumble - Counter AoO and Add Dodge AC.
* Heal - Use Healing Kits.
* Sleight of Hand - Theft.
* Set trap - Self explanatory.
* Perform - Bardiness Stuff.
* Open Lock - Self Explanatory.
Trade:
* Appraise - Better Prices at Vendors.
So 13 OM skills with Tumble/Lore somewhat (though maybe different mods on checks) redundant. Go go 2x Skill monkeys: Rogue/Ranger/SD and Rogue/Barb/Wizard/EK
1st question: Nope (as far as I've seen). IF you select another party member on the overland map then that party member's skills are dominate - i.e. your leader has no lore, but your spellcaster does; switch to the spell caster and all of a sudden your lore starts finding things (..if they are there). On the other hand you also have that character's limitations in certain skills as well when you switch over - like poor spot and listen perhaps, so you won't see hostiles pop-up until they are right on top of you.
Now there *might* be a skill *interaction* that triggers some things, don't know. (..say perhaps needing certain values for Search AND Lore.)
2nd question: Try to get the best possible skill set combination for your leader that you can (..without ruining them in general). This combines overland map sensitivity AND the "Teamwork Benefits". For instance Survival is IMO a must for your leader, likewise Spot and Listen are also pretty important (..and they are major contributors to your Teamwork Benefits).
OM detection ALSO includes all the crafting skills. Not only have I found traps based on craft trap level, but I've also found armor based on craft armor. EX. Craft armor "found" a tree that had bark to be made into an armor set.
Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:10 am
by Mz_Trixter
From what I've seen after restarting numerous times, It's as if all those associated Skills are always active - Whether or not your main character has them or not. They just appear to be set as minors until the select character with them is chosen. Like whenever I'm running around with my tank (dwarf) parts of the time, it 'requires' search to find random items on the ground.. and they do appear regaurdless. However, when I put my Thief up front, whos expert at it, I start having 5 or more things start poppin up.
Likewise with dialogue scenes, I split up Intimidation, Diplomacy, Bluff and Taunt between the four. But for instance when my Thiefs in a convo, I still see Diplomacy as an option when I know from the start I never even put any points into it. Im thinking though, its set to a lower chance to work (as the rest of 'em) than with someone whos got like 20 points in it.
Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:05 pm
by Scottg
Mz_Trixter wrote:From what I've seen after restarting numerous times..
You'll have to try the party I'm currently running.
I'll try and post it later today - a proverbial swiss-army knife that cuts through everything like hot butter.:mischief:
As for skills -
2 areas.
1. dialogue (be it on the overland map or not).
2. finding things on the overland map.
For #1 - EVERYONE has a chance to make (or not) certain skill checks to see additional dialogue choices. Sometimes you'll get those extra dialogue choices with just your attribute bonus points for that skill (or from equipment providing bonuses). However, I'm now thinking (like you) that there *is* a roll going on here AND/OR that some choices may be better than others. One time I had a choice that specifically stated something like "greater" in parenthesis like: Lore: (greater) "bla, bla, bla". To me this suggests that at least one dialogue choice is likely *better* than another.
For #2 - it only relates to whichever character is selected. There will be some "finds" that are likely related to simply passing by that area, and perhaps also related to character level (..despite any description for the "find"). Of course most of the time its skill level for a particular skill. Also note that those areas "heavy" with finds for one character probably are "find" populated areas for other skills as well. IF there aren't too many monsters in the area then I like to "toggle" through all my characters (in those locations) to see if the other character's skills find anything.
Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:20 pm
by Scottg
My latest group-build is on the "cooler". It has a serious flaw related to the game's development (i.e. a code-monkey's flaw).
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:55 pm
by Scottg
Mz_Trixter wrote:
Gray Orc (Chaotic Neutral)
Deity: Grummish or Kelemvor (for buff bonus from FS)
Barbarian (15)
Frienzied Berserker (10)
The Barb has 5 extra levels for something else, only Im still not sure what to take. He'll be the fastest in the party and partially fills the ranger role - however, Id rather not take ranger levels. And leaving it B/FB would just make it seem plain. So if anyone has any ideas, lemme hear 'em!
For this character I'd recommend:
*Dwarf*
Barbarian 13
Dwarven Defender 10
FB 5
?
Damage Reduction will be 9 + any epic damage reduction (up to another 9).
18 Damage Reduction all the time at level 30 wouldn't be to shabby.
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:53 pm
by Claudius
Barbarian DR doesn't stack with DD DR for some reason iirc
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:58 pm
by Scottg
Claudius wrote:Barbarian DR doesn't stack with DD DR for some reason iirc
Well that just SUCKS!
..slinks away as he retracts his recommendation..
Im not gonna go into detail though