looking for suggestions for a BA character

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:32 pm

heres the rules for the challenge:

1 vs 1
level 20
max hit points
760,000gp
point buy system with a base of 8 in each and you cant "buy" higher than an 18 with 30 points to spend and its point for point (so 9 costs 1, 10 costs 2, 11 costs 3...ETC...)
you can only buy 1 tome...PERIOD
no poison
items reset for every match

the open books are:
PHB (3.5)
DMG(3.5)
monster manuals (3.5)
PHB 2
spell compendium
book of the nine swords
complete arcane
complete adventurer
complete champion
complete divine
complete mage
complete scoundrel
complete warrior

if its not in those books you cant use it

i would really appreciate any ideas you guys have.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:30 pm

You might want to describe to others what a "BA" character is, as well as the point buy system. Personally, I don't know what BA is, and as for point buy, it's a lot more complicated than what you described.

Go for a Righteous Might/Divine power 7th level cleric with 3 Levels of Monk and 10 levels of Sacred Fist.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:35 am

Wizard 20. Be a Grey Elf, get CON, DEX, INT as high as possible, Tome of Intellect, Ring of Arcane Power, Ioun Stone that increases caster level, Headband of Intellect +6, Bracers of Health +6, Robe of the Archmagi, maybe.
Anyway, here's a much better thread: Giant in the Playground Forums

Another option is a Druid 20, max out CON & WIS, get Natural Spell, Improved Initiative,Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, a T-Rex or Dire Tiger Animal Companion, Wildshape into some large powerful animal. (Yet another Dire Tiger or T-Rex; other Dinos might be good, or Dire Animals.)
Here's a more detailed guide: Druid Handbook revived - Wizards Community

Edit: Updated the link.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:29 pm

Siberys wrote:You might want to describe to others what a "BA" character is, as well as the point buy system. Personally, I don't know what BA is, and as for point buy, it's a lot more complicated than what you described.

Go for a Righteous Might/Divine power 7th level cleric with 3 Levels of Monk and 10 levels of Sacred Fist.

BA stands for bad a**...forgive the language i realized a little too late that there are language rules here. also i think my DM made her own point buy system. I'm actually looking at a lvl 20 rogue with maxed use magic device take the leadership feat and have all 164 allies cast hail of stone (spell compendium page 108 its the only 1st level spell that allows no save and no spell resistance...no ranged touch attack either)at the beginning of the match if that doesn't kill them a scroll of power word kill should do the trick

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:13 pm

If she does things like this, your best bet might be a spellcaster, with the craft Contingency feat (Complete Arcane). That allows you an interrupt, preferably Timestop, and work from there. Also, try to optimise your Initiative. I'll dig for a handy link for just that purpose tomorrow.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:30 am

GawainBS wrote:If she does things like this, your best bet might be a spellcaster, with the craft Contingency feat (Complete Arcane). That allows you an interrupt, preferably Timestop, and work from there. Also, try to optimise your Initiative. I'll dig for a handy link for just that purpose tomorrow.

with use magic device maxed out and a +7 mod to my CHA i can use skill mastery to take a 10 and instantly read any sorc/wiz scroll i want. the craft contingency feat wont work because it takes my xp which would bust me down to 19th level...although i might spend the money to get an npc to cast it on me. i have already done this with death pact(spell compendium page 60) and time stop isn't a bad idea...i think ill use that one...but with my followers casting hail of stone at the beginning of the round(218d4) not much will survive that...and if it does power word kill should finish them off...i bought a scroll of superior invisibility 10 scrolls of time stop and several others so just in case my initial volley isnt enough i have a backup plan...weapon focus shortbow (+10...bane human speed and seeking) point blank shot,deft strike, spectral skirmisher, telling blow and power crit...

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:35 am

Target might be ethereal, which negates 50% of that damage. You can't take 10 on UMD, unless you're an artificer. It's not your UMD that should be high enough, but that of the followers. Maybe they're all lvl 1 wizards? Even then, they'd have to make spellcraft checks to cast a spell from a scroll from a higher caster level than theirs. (Or this might just be the case if it's a spell that they can't cast yet; Syberis probably knows it by heart, so hope that he drops by.)
Anyway, if your follower's initiative is bad, your tactic won't work, because they're probably dead before they can do anything.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:57 am

GawainBS wrote:Target might be ethereal, which negates 50% of that damage. You can't take 10 on UMD, unless you're an artificer. It's not your UMD that should be high enough, but that of the followers. Maybe they're all lvl 1 wizards? Even then, they'd have to make spellcraft checks to cast a spell from a scroll from a higher caster level than theirs. (Or this might just be the case if it's a spell that they can't cast yet; Syberis probably knows it by heart, so hope that he drops by.)
Anyway, if your follower's initiative is bad, your tactic won't work, because they're probably dead before they can do anything.

my whole plan is to kill them before they become ethereal or even get a chance to move for that matter. my dm runs my npcs initiative off of mine so whatever i get they get...look up the skill mastery special ability for rogue(phb page 51) lets you take a 10 on 3 skills you choose when you otherwise wouldn't be able to. my followers are all wizards 135 level 1, 13 lvl 2, 7 lvl 3, 4 lvl 4, 2 lvl5, and 2 lvl 6. so they can cast it. the scrolls are all for me.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:29 am

Skill Mastery doesn't work that way. It only allows the take 10 on skills that normally have an option, but that option might not always present due to combat or some such. UMD specificly states that you never can take 10. Your DM might rule otherwise, but that's a houserule then.
All it'd take to spoil you plans is a half-decently played wizard. He's probably first to act, thanks to Foresight/Moment of Prescience. Even if not, he has Contingency (The 6th lvl spell) to Teleport him away, up in to the air, or behind you, or what not. Then it's his turn. Rod of Empowerment Timestop (Meaning at least 3 round of non-offensive casting): Dimension Door/another Teleport, Quicken True Strike ready Irresistable Dance. By this time, the fight is probably over. He can then start Gating, Shapechanging, Power Word Killing your minions. If you manage to kill, him, tough luck, because that was his clone. The wizard himself is now standing ethereally behind you, with his Gated Solar.
That was Core-only. Now take things like Alacricity from PHBII in account...

That wizard here above is certainly not perfect, but since I could make that up in 10minutes, someone who's anticipating this fight, probably does a lot better.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:01 pm

GawainBS wrote:Skill Mastery doesn't work that way. It only allows the take 10 on skills that normally have an option, but that option might not always present due to combat or some such. UMD specificly states that you never can take 10. Your DM might rule otherwise, but that's a houserule then.
All it'd take to spoil you plans is a half-decently played wizard. He's probably first to act, thanks to Foresight/Moment of Prescience. Even if not, he has Contingency (The 6th lvl spell) to Teleport him away, up in to the air, or behind you, or what not. Then it's his turn. Rod of Empowerment Timestop (Meaning at least 3 round of non-offensive casting): Dimension Door/another Teleport, Quicken True Strike ready Irresistable Dance. By this time, the fight is probably over. He can then start Gating, Shapechanging, Power Word Killing your minions. If you manage to kill, him, tough luck, because that was his clone. The wizard himself is now standing ethereally behind you, with his Gated Solar.
That was Core-only. Now take things like Alacricity from PHBII in account...

That wizard here above is certainly not perfect, but since I could make that up in 10minutes, someone who's anticipating this fight, probably does a lot better.

i came prepared to kill mages. if the initial volley doesn't work ill time stop cast effulgent epuration and superior invisibility then proceed to sneak attack him. if he has a way to block sneak attack i can still wear him down effulgent epuration will deal with any spell he casts at me and if he lives long enough to wear out the spell i can just time stop and cast it again...hmm...bump my CHA up to a 32 take skill focus and bam...the check is made before i even roll. no need for skill mastery

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:12 pm

UMD: SRD - Skills Charisma-based (bottom page).

If that's your plan to kill a prepared mage, I hope that your Gamebanshee-name is your real name and not a pseudonym.

Seriously, he's immune to Sneak Attack, because of Greater Fortification on Bracers of Armour. (Can be done, according to Sage Advice from the Wizards site.)

If he's ever forced in to melee, he'll Polymorph/Shapechange/have a bodyguard.

He could use Leadership to have a Crusader 18, Mindblanked, who is Enlarged, and is wielding a Spiked Chain with Thicket of Blades. Good luck closing with that. (Thicket beats Tumbles, btw.)

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:27 pm

GawainBS wrote:UMD: SRD - Skills Charisma-based (bottom page).

If that's your plan to kill a prepared mage, I hope that your Gamebanshee-name is your real name and not a pseudonym.

Seriously, he's immune to Sneak Attack, because of Greater Fortification on Bracers of Armour. (Can be done, according to Sage Advice from the Wizards site.)

If he's ever forced in to melee, he'll Polymorph/Shapechange/have a bodyguard.

He could use Leadership to have a Crusader 18, Mindblanked, who is Enlarged, and is wielding a Spiked Chain with Thicket of Blades. Good luck closing with that. (Thicket beats Tumbles, btw.)

dont need to close...just get within 30 feet(shortbow+30/30/25/20 to hit). if hes immune to sneak attack then oh well...the fight will take a little longer...but he cant hit me and neither can his minion...and my AC is only 24...how you ask? ironguard...(spell compendium page 125)

i edited my last post by the way.
Sigh. going to work...ill be on here later to check...thanks for all this advice.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:49 pm

What stops that wizard from dispelling Ironguard? What stops him from using it himself? What stops the cohort from using a Wooden weapon? The Wizard could just as well Shapechange in to something that can pound you to dead.
You need actions to caste all those scrolls, which is another turn for the Wizard. Since he is a full caster, you probably will have to deal with a Gated creature as well. What if he is an Archmage and sculpts an Anti-Magic Field with him being free of it, then going Tenser's Transformation?
Oh, and don't underestimate the cohort as well. Apart from the Crusader, it could be a Sling-sniper (bypassing Ironguard). It could be (I hope for you it won't be) a Wildshaped Druid with an Animal Companion.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:21 pm

GawainBS wrote:What stops that wizard from dispelling Ironguard? What stops him from using it himself? What stops the cohort from using a Wooden weapon? The Wizard could just as well Shapechange in to something that can pound you to dead.
You need actions to caste all those scrolls, which is another turn for the Wizard. Since he is a full caster, you probably will have to deal with a Gated creature as well. What if he is an Archmage and sculpts an Anti-Magic Field with him being free of it, then going Tenser's Transformation?
Oh, and don't underestimate the cohort as well. Apart from the Crusader, it could be a Sling-sniper (bypassing Ironguard). It could be (I hope for you it won't be) a Wildshaped Druid with an Animal Companion.

so far you have completely shot down all of my plans...so lets go in a different direction with this...what EXACTLY would you do? im not trying to sound like a jerk I really made this topic to get other peoples character creation ideas. also how long have you been playing d&d? (if you don't mind me asking.) I have been playing since about a month before 3.5 came out and in my circle of friends im one of the most experienced people. I won the last challenge I was in and came in second in my first challenge ever...(with much less original character ideas than these sadly) so here I am thinking myself a formidable opponent with a nigh perfect strategy that just got torn to pieces in...what?... like 20 minutes? so i ask you...help me please

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:18 pm

this one's easy.

Buy two scrolls. One of Contingency, one of Spell Turning. Buy multiple scrolls of each in case you're likely to fail a UMD check. Or if your DM allows it, have the spells crafted into an item that doesn't require a UMD check (Like a potion or bead or other single use command word item). This'll simply be double the price of the scroll version.

Cast contingency on yourself. After that, cast spell turning on yourself, and dictate the contingency to activate Spell turning whenever targeted with a spell not created by you or your allies, to which you can dictate names if the DM asks.

After that, next time you're in battle with a wizard, use Iron Guard and he'll target a dispel on you most likely, which automatically activates Spell Turning.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:31 am

Siberys wrote:this one's easy.

Buy two scrolls. One of Contingency, one of Spell Turning. Buy multiple scrolls of each in case you're likely to fail a UMD check. Or if your DM allows it, have the spells crafted into an item that doesn't require a UMD check (Like a potion or bead or other single use command word item). This'll simply be double the price of the scroll version.

Cast contingency on yourself. After that, cast spell turning on yourself, and dictate the contingency to activate Spell turning whenever targeted with a spell not created by you or your allies, to which you can dictate names if the DM asks.

After that, next time you're in battle with a wizard, use Iron Guard and he'll target a dispel on you most likely, which automatically activates Spell Turning.

my dm is allowing precast things (i have contingency:time stop and death pact already precast) i also just found a spell in the spell compendium that basically hits you with a heal right before you die...so in all I'll have about 3 lives

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:09 am

I've been playing D&D since the last two years before 3.0 came out. I believe it started in 1998.
I'm mostly "shooting down your plans" to pick up the weak points, so that you know what to change/be careful about. So far, you've shown an excellent grasp of D&D-knowledge and how to use it in practise. I find it really intresting to trade ideas with you.
Syberis idea might work, but the number of spells that can be turned is limited (and worse: random) and could just as well be turned right back to you.
The biggest drawback with UMD-scrolls/items is that to get any variations, you have to ready all the scrolls/items, which are move actions. And Actions are the one currency on which D&D revolves.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:09 pm

GawainBS wrote:I've been playing D&D since the last two years before 3.0 came out. I believe it started in 1998.
I'm mostly "shooting down your plans" to pick up the weak points, so that you know what to change/be careful about. So far, you've shown an excellent grasp of D&D-knowledge and how to use it in practise. I find it really intresting to trade ideas with you.
Syberis idea might work, but the number of spells that can be turned is limited (and worse: random) and could just as well be turned right back to you.
The biggest drawback with UMD-scrolls/items is that to get any variations, you have to ready all the scrolls/items, which are move actions. And Actions are the one currency on which D&D revolves.

spell turning isnt as good as effulgent epuration (spell compendium page 78) it doesnt absorb AoE spells but hey im a rogue

my dm may let the take 10 rule stand for this challenge just because she has let it go several times before...mostly because no one ever thought to look it up.if she doesnt i can still boost my CHA up to like 32 and take skill focus which means all i have to do is not roll a one...do you know if i can take a UMD to emulate an ability score and cast a scroll all in one turn? if so i might pick up some druid and cleric scrolls as well...

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:17 pm

You can still only read one scroll per round. Maybe 2 if one of them is custom scribed with Quicken spell, but I think only Artificers can do that, and those aren't on the list of allowed things. Still, getting a scroll from your belt, backpack, boots, hat, whatever, still is a move action. UMD can't help you in and of itself in using more than scroll/round, hence the reason why a full caster probably has the upper hand. All the checks from UMD are part of the action that lets you use the item. (So, Ability score emulations are included in casting the scroll.)
On the other hand, nothing stops you from using Cleric/Druid scroll at all.
Effulgent Epuration can be defeated by an AntiMagicField. Since that's a personal effect, a familiar can be the center of it and function as a portable AMF, which can be used to nullify any of your spellprotections, which would leave you open for a cohort, or Gated creature, or a Shapechanged Wizard. (Check the stats of a Solar, or a three-Wish Genie, or something else from that CR, to get an idea how good Gate is.) Sure, you can probably deal with the Familiar, but that gives the Wizard an extra round, which is all he needs.
BTW, check your PMs.

Jezus · Post by **Jezus** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:28 pm

GawainBS wrote:You can still only read one scroll per round. Maybe 2 if one of them is custom scribed with Quicken spell, but I think only Artificers can do that, and those aren't on the list of allowed things. Still, getting a scroll from your belt, backpack, boots, hat, whatever, still is a move action. UMD can't help you in and of itself in using more than scroll/round, hence the reason why a full caster probably has the upper hand. All the checks from UMD are part of the action that lets you use the item. (So, Ability score emulations are included in casting the scroll.)
On the other hand, nothing stops you from using Cleric/Druid scroll at all.
Effulgent Epuration can be defeated by an AntiMagicField. Since that's a personal effect, a familiar can be the center of it and function as a portable AMF, which can be used to nullify any of your spellprotections, which would leave you open for a cohort, or Gated creature, or a Shapechanged Wizard. (Check the stats of a Solar, or a three-Wish Genie, or something else from that CR, to get an idea how good Gate is.) Sure, you can probably deal with the Familiar, but that gives the Wizard an extra round, which is all he needs.
BTW, check your PMs.

I thought that antimagic fields stopped spells from entering as well...hmm...what about putting an antimagic field on one of my followers or possibly my cohort...have them rush the mage...the field + the cohort might keep him busy long enough for me to launch a few fort save spells at him...im thinking of changing my cohort to a druid BTW. im also thinking about switching to straight wizard...maybe sorc...