Which Fixpack!?

BALDURPLAYER · Post by **BALDURPLAYER** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:53 pm

which onE!
baldurdush or gibberling3?

i have both soa and tob!
latest patch installed and that's all!

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:10 am

I usually choose the one that has been most recently updated. No reason, really. What these packs adjust (next to what they fix) may be a matter of taste.

BALDURPLAYER · Post by **BALDURPLAYER** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:11 am

dat's y i need some recommandations!
i'm so lost

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:58 pm

None. The game works without. If you install a fixpack you play a fan-modded game, not BG2 any more.

Baronius · Post by **Baronius** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:03 pm

Unfortunately, there is no optimal choice. I would be really happy to see a "strict" fixpack. Something which fixes only real bugs (such as a spell e.g. which description says "2" but in the reality its effect is "3").

The problem is, baldurdash and baldurdash-weidu are not comprehensive at all, while the gibberlings3 one is practically unstable. I'm familiar with software technology, and I've taken a look at the "BG2 Fixpack" as well. Even though it may be tempting with its novelties, it is very risky in my opinion, because it manipulates so many so-called references in your game that it might break any mods you install after it (unless those mods are explicitly prepared to work with the fixpack in advance, this is what Gibberlings3 does with their mods, and would expect all other modders to do as well). The problems are subtle sometimes, for example you don't even notice it. My friend told me that it's possible that a quest of a mod simply doesn't trigger, so you won't even notice that there was a bug, unless you explicitly know that the quest should be there. Or when you install a new mod and it appears to buggy, it's possible that the fixpack (!!) broke it (it happened with an NPC mod, for example) and the new mod is actually bug-free. But it also occured that it corrupted an unmodded game as well.

It's a pity that this promising project (G3 BG2 fixpack) ended to be so buggy. It could have become the successor or substitute of baldurdash.

So I advise not to use the BG2 Fixpack at all, but since the original game has a few annoying bugs and if you aren't happy with that, you can install baldurdash, because it's at least stable (but not comprehensive). It may also have some problems though, but IMO it's the least bad option from more bad options.

BALDURPLAYER · Post by **BALDURPLAYER** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:16 pm

Baronius wrote:Unfortunately, there is no optimal choice. I would be really happy to see a "strict" fixpack. Something which fixes only real bugs (such as a spell e.g. which description says "2" but in the reality its effect is "3").

The problem is, baldurdash and baldurdash-weidu are not comprehensive at all, while the gibberlings3 one is practically unstable. I'm familiar with software technology, and I've taken a look at the "BG2 Fixpack" as well. Even though it may be tempting with its novelties, it is very risky in my opinion, because it manipulates so many so-called references in your game that it might break any mods you install after it (unless those mods are explicitly prepared to work with the fixpack in advance, this is what Gibberlings3 does with their mods, and would expect all other modders to do as well). The problems are subtle sometimes, for example you don't even notice it. My friend told me that it's possible that a quest of a mod simply doesn't trigger, so you won't even notice that there was a bug, unless you explicitly know that the quest should be there. Or when you install a new mod and it appears to buggy, it's possible that the fixpack (!!) broke it (it happened with an NPC mod, for example) and the new mod is actually bug-free. But it also occured that it corrupted an unmodded game as well.

It's a pity that this promising project (G3 BG2 fixpack) ended to be so buggy. It could have become the successor or substitute of baldurdash.

So I advise not to use the BG2 Fixpack at all, but since the original game has a few annoying bugs and if you aren't happy with that, you can install baldurdash, because it's at least stable (but not comprehensive). It may also have some problems though, but IMO it's the least bad option from more bad options.

so should i try the g3 one since i have ZERO mod installed

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:23 pm

I am currently running the G3 pack along with several mods, and I'm quite a ways into my game, so far I've had no trouble at all.

For the record, I have installed the following mods:
IEP Banters
Banter Pack V8
NPC Flirt Pack
Viconia Friendship
Fade

Baronius · Post by **Baronius** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:24 pm

No, I recommend baldurdash or nothing (when I first played the game long long ago, I didn't encounter any bug and I only had the official patch), but it's up to you if you want to experiment.

For example, the gibberlings3 one modifies D'Arnise Keep, replaces scripts (artificial intelligence and behaviour) of many creatures, changes their alignment, and manipulates many files. If you like such changes and you want to try, give it a go, but I wouldn't use it.

You know, a fixpack which tries to fix 100 important things might have a flaw in 2 fixes (it's developed by HUMANS after all, and humans make accidental mistakes), but a fixpack which adds 1000 things will have 20 bugs then. Simple maths, and as far as I know, they don't have enough testers for it either. But it's up to you anyway.

BALDURPLAYER · Post by **BALDURPLAYER** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:12 pm

Baronius wrote:No, I recommend baldurdash or nothing (when I first played the game long long ago, I didn't encounter any bug and I only had the official patch), but it's up to you if you want to experiment.

For example, the gibberlings3 one modifies D'Arnise Keep, replaces scripts (artificial intelligence and behaviour) of many creatures, changes their alignment, and manipulates many files. If you like such changes and you want to try, give it a go, but I wouldn't use it.

You know, a fixpack which tries to fix 100 important things might have a flaw in 2 fixes (it's developed by HUMANS after all, and humans make accidental mistakes), but a fixpack which adds 1000 things will have 20 bugs then. Simple maths, and as far as I know, they don't have enough testers for it either. But it's up to you anyway.

aha you are right. i'm not fond of mods and it seems the g3 one is more like a mod/tweak pack than a patch afterall. gonna go with the official. started a g3 game moments ago and it was like playing a heavily modded/tweaked game(like i said i never like mods except to fool around with some). many things that are NOT considered bug have been altered such as jaheira can cast sweet zone of air or whatever it's called. they took it out cuz it's against the rules or whatever but it seems to me it was the developer's intention to make npcs special like viconia can cast holy smite and that make u take them along. hell minsc can't be a ranger with a wisdom of 6. well restoring broken scripts is great but altering "artificial intelligence and behaviour" like u said isn't fixing anything. thank you for registering just to clear my mind up. i'm going with the official patch only and will use baldurdash if encounter any bug.

anarchistica · Post by **anarchistica** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:37 pm

Lol, if you don't install the unmissable G3 Fixpack because some spells were disallowed due to alignment/class restrictions, that is very, very silly. I mean, jeez, just look at the list of fixes. I also really like the "the game works without it" argument. Seriously, that's the best you can come up with? You're still using DOS because your PC works fine without anything else? Comparing a Fixpack to a mod is beyond silly. I bet you only play with the portraits that came with the game since using custom portraits equals modding the game.

If you only install the Core Fixes component of the G3FP you can simply give the relevant characters the spells that were removed (you could probably simply override that file).

I hope the G3/BD people never have to read this topic.

Baronius · Post by **Baronius** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:40 pm

@BALDURPLAYER:

No problem. Indeed, it's rather a tweak pack, and of the buggy sort. You can imagine that the gibberlings3 folks aren't very fond of me because of my determined criticism, but I feel that everyone has the right to know these things. I get a lot of cynical attacks because of it, but I don't mind. Everyone can make the decision on his or her own anyway, I'm just telling what my years of experience says to me.

BALDURPLAYER · Post by **BALDURPLAYER** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:42 pm

anarchistica wrote:Lol, if you don't install the unmissable G3 Fixpack because some spells were disallowed due to alignment/class restrictions, that is very, very silly. I mean, jeez, just look at the list of fixes. I also really like the "the game works without it" argument. Seriously, that's the best you can come up with? You're still using DOS because your PC works fine without anything else? Comparing a Fixpack to a mod is beyond silly. I bet you only play with the portraits that came with the game since using custom portraits equals modding the game.

If you only install the Core Fixes component of the G3FP you can simply give the relevant characters the spells that were removed (you could probably simply override that file).

I hope the G3/BD people never have to read this topic.

played with the fixpack and read the list. didn't like it and don't like it. ain't gonna use it. that's all it matters so save your breath.

Kunikos · Post by **Kunikos** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:24 am

I found if you install the Gibberlings 3 fix pack then Weidu's Ease of Use, there's a component that has to do with dual-class that causes BG2 to crash.

So yeah, you just gotta be careful which mods you install together.

foot · Post by **foot** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:45 am

Some of you are confusing the G3 fixpack with the G3 tweakpack. They are 2 entirely different packages. The G3 guys go to great lengths to ensure that the fixpack only fixes bugs, and does not modify the rules in anyway. When they're not sure something is a bug or intended by the devs, it goes into the tweakpack.

The tweakpack does have a lot of strange things in it, which could potentially create a lot of problems, but guess what? It's all split into components, and you only install what you want. If you can't read instructions and install the whole thing then you're asking for trouble. No sympathy here.

I'm a BG purist, and have been using the fixpack for a long time. Never ran into any problems.

CoM_Solaufein · Post by **CoM_Solaufein** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:21 am

Don't believe the lies. The G3 Fix Pack works just fine.

Sykar · Post by **Sykar** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:42 am

Agreeing with above poster. So far the fixpack from G3 works nicely. No errors nor anything and I have played though it once with just official patch so I am pretty sure I'd notice missing dialogues etc.

Just be sure to get V6 and the 6.1 fix. Follow the instructions and heed the recomendations to install Fixpack after official patch but before all other mods.
Just one exception, install Ascension and Longer Road before Fixpack. In case you don't want to use it just go straight to Fixpack after the official patch.

Not sure about the BG 2 Tweak Pack but I read that normally you want to install tweak packs rather late or near the end of your mod list.

One nice addition is Sword Coast Strategems 2. Really enhances the AI by a lot. Your mage is unprotected? See how rogues will hunt him mercilessly using Invis potions as much as possible. You put up a Spell Reflect spell? See how beholders choose other targets for assailance.
Enemy mages using their Spell Triggers etc. to the fullest. Heavy potion use by the enemy AI now and pretty effective at it as well. Makes the game really challangeing without resorting to the ridiculous Tactis mod which is for pure powergamers only. SCS 2 is much more subtle and nearly comes away without cheating and still increases difficulty nicely.

My first post here by the way.