Wizardry 6, 7, and 8

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:46 pm

So it's decided, my next game is going to be Wizardry 6.

This is going to be my introduction to the Wizardry games, so I would appreciate if some of you, helpful banshees, could answer a few questions.

1 - I know that you can export your party from W6 to W7 and then to W8. Is there any advantage to it? I plan to use a different party in each game in order to try different characters and combinations. What are your thoughts on this?

2 - For W7, should I play the original version or the gold version (I have both)?

3 - Are there any race or class specific quests? Will I miss something if I don't have any human? The game features some races I have never played before, so I'm tempted to choose only amongst these.

4 - Any comments/suggestions on the party I intend to create?

Fighter (Lizardman)
Mage (Faerie)
Priest (Rawulf)
Ninja (Felpurr)
Samurai (don't know race yet)
Valkyrie (don't know race yet)

Thanks in advance.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:27 pm

Be aware that character development in 6 & 7 is probably unlike any othe game you've played. It's NOT a roleplaying game, not in the conventional sense, to get the most out of your character you switch classes. Crazy I know, but I loved the games, so look beyond that. What it means is you have to plan your characters development well in advance. Decide not just what class you want to be at the start, but which class you want the character to switch too in the future and allocate his/her stats accordingly.

One warning in that regard, starting a Lizardman out as a fighter with fighter like stat distributions a very bad move, it'll make finding a secondary class very, very difficult, better to go for the most difficult class that you want your Lizardman/woman to be right at the start.

Look for a three deep progression tree, for example a Liazardwoman could maybe start out as a fighter, but keep re-rolling until her stats can be arranged so that she can become a priest, with a view to then switching to a Valkyrie, then maybe back and forth between Priest and Valkyrie, but never touch fighter again or your stuck in a dead end.

Look for similar class combinations for your other characters too and always start out with the hardest class to achieve for that race that you want her/him to have.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:58 am

I know you can find some Wiz7 items in Wiz8 if you import your party from there.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:46 pm

Thank you both for your replies.

I read somewhere that Bane of the Cosmic Forge is 200+ hours long, so I'll be in it for a long time I guess.

Demiath · Post by **Demiath** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:07 am

I'm no expert on W6 but I've just created a party and started playing it myself (needless to say, getting all those apparently required +18 bonuses took some time).

About your second question, I am myself planning on playing the original DOS version of W7, primarily because then I can use DosBOX and get a better control over the game's overall performance (useful for increasing the speed and so forth) instead of having to rely on a very old Windows port. Also, there seem to be some rather amateurish voiceacting in the Gold version that just seem to slow down the game unnecessarily. But veterans of the series with more in-depth knowledge and experience of both versions might a different view on this...

Regarding your last question: What little experience I have with W6 as well as what I've been reading about the game strongly suggests that a Bard (who should change class to Ninja later in the game) is extremely useful early in the game because of his ability to put enemies to sleep with his Lute.

Again, if I'm completely wrong about any of this I would appreciate it if W6 veterans would correct me...

Finally, I include a list of useful websites with advice and instructions on how to play W6, just in case you haven't discovered all of them yourself;

Peter Karsanow's Advice:
Pete's Advice for Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge

Mike Marcelais' Walkthrough:
Wizardry VI Solution

Philip M. Reynolds/John Hubbard's Walkthrough:
Wizardry | Prepare Yourself for the Ultimate in Fantasy Games | Wizardry

Wyvern's Walkthrough:
Wizardry 6: Bane of the Cosmic Forge walkthrough - solution

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:32 pm

Thanks for the info and welcome to GameBanshee.

You have more patience than I have. I also wanted 18+ characters when I rolled my party last sunday, but ended up with a 16-18 range. In more than 2 hours, I did not roll over 18 once.

Don't hesitate to share your feelings on the game. Personally, my expectations are so high that I'm scared I'll be disappointed.

Demiath · Post by **Demiath** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:33 am

Well, I actually did settle for lower than 18 for two of my characters (like you, I also tried several hours and don't remember having seen a higher figure than 18). Although 18 is obviously very good, 16-17 is supposed to be at least acceptable...

So far I've only played for two hour or so, I've levelled up to level 3 and mostly stayed in the first part of the dungeon. I like the relatively user-friendly interface and the mouse support (pretty good for a game released in 1990) and the difficulty level seems balanced enough at the moment (although the game apparently gets insanely difficult later on) as long as you do the appropriate amount of grinding. The graphics are obviously ugly (compare this to MM3 only three years later!) but at least you stop noticing them fairly soon...

By the way, I'm actually experimenting with recording my progress over at GameVee (as well as posting shorter excerpts on my YouTube site). We'll see just how far I actually get, but feel free to check my channels out at

GameVee.com | Demiath's Videos

YouTube - Demiath's Channel

Demiath · Post by **Demiath** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:48 am

Well, I just wanted to add that I finished Wizardry 6 yesterday (took me about 30 hours all in all), and I must say I really enjoyed it. There were definitely gameplay mechanics that I never quite understood (for example, no matter what I did I just couldn't raise any weapon skills for my Mage and my Bard could never learn to use anything more lethal than a Short Bow despite switching class to Ninja at level 10) and some of the class switching wasn't handled very well. But I got through the game nonetheless and found the difficulty level (at Hard) to be just right and never unfair or too frustrating (except maybe occasionally during the endgame, which was perhaps a bit too insane but thankfully not needlessly protracted).

Now I'm curious to know how things worked out for Gilliatt. Were you disappointed because of those high expectations of yours or have you been having fun with the game as well?

(Note: I used walkthroughs to solve the more obscure puzzles and relied heavily on maps created by other players.)

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:41 pm

Wow 30 hours! And I thought, from what I read, that it was a 200 hours game!

Concerning my game, I'm still at the starting gate, since I never had time to play again. But I'm on vacation this week, so I'll probably start it tomorrow.

Thanks for the upadate.

Are you planning to play Wizardy VII now?

Demiath · Post by **Demiath** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:11 am

Well, W6 can easily become a 200 hours game if you want it do. It doesn't end after you've finished the story quests, as you are merely transported back to an area outside the last dungeon and can continue to do as much level grinding and equipment upgrading as you want. As I understand it, continuing to play after the "official" end of the game is highly recommended if you're going to transport your characters to W7 (I didn't bother because I like creating new characters).

And yes, I've slowly begun to play W7 (as well as continued the addictive habit of uploading videos of my adventures to YouTube). Being able to move on to W7 was the primary reason as to why I played W6 in the first place and so far, W7 has been really good but also more difficult than W6. The more linearly structured and focused dungeon crawl experience of W6 is certainly less intimidating at first than the vast, open-ended world of Wizardry 7...

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:34 pm

I finished 2 of the 3 endings last weekend. I'll probably go for the 3rd one next weekend even though I suspect the only change will be in the final text and not in the game itself.

It's not that I didn't trust Galraen, but since I read some walkthroughs where people did not switch their character's classes, I tried not to switch them and I think it went pretty well. By the end of the game, my Lizardman Fighter had 189 hit points and was almost impossible to hit. I'm not trying to say that switching classes is a bad idea, but that I could finish the game pretty easily without doing it.

Overall, I enjoyed the game, but I have to admit that my expectations were too high. A little more diversity and NPCs would have been welcome. I was getting tired of dungeon crawling and monsters killing by the end of the game. I was also disappointed by trap disarming and lockpicking: even though I put almost all of my ninja's skill points in Skullduggery (had 88 by the end of the game), I needed to reload almost every time I found a chest. Most of the traps disarming was done by guessing rather than by having my characters find out what the trap was. I believe that when you invest so much in a skill, you should be rewarded more than that.

It took me about 60 hours, relying heavily on maps and a little on walkthroughs when I got stuck, but the last part did not happen often since when you have the maps, you have almost everything.

To conclude, even though my introduction to the Wizardry world was not as incredible as I expected, it was still a pretty fun experience and I'll definitely play Wizardry VI and VIII.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:03 pm

I've been playing the game (VI) again myself recently, for the first time in years, and it's been fun. I can't imagine playing the game without changing classes, it's half the fun in a way, but I enjoy powergaming in Wizardry games, the amount of XP mining it must take to play through without changing classes would drive me nuts.

The trap disarming can be annoying, but as long as you can recognnise the trap it isn't too difficult, I've got through to the end of the Isle of the Dead with Skulduggery at less than 50, but that's mainly due to extensive use of the Identify Trap spell.

So far I haven't had a character go higher than 10th, but that's about to change now that the characters are in the process of making their final transition. Two are on their final class now, one is a male Rawulf Lord with the just acquired Avenger, the other a female Elf Samurai with th equally newly acquired Muramasa Katana. I have a human femal who will end up as a Valkyrie, a Felpur female, Faerie female and a human male; not sure what the lst three wil end up as yet. All fo them have 100 in three of the magic schools and are working on the fourth. and of course they all have 100% in Ninjutsu.

I have to say that Mental speels are prety useless in combat once you get past the pyramid, as are water spells. They still come in useful onoccasion though.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:06 pm

I'm to blame then, I think I did not use the Identify Trap spell once in the game. I did not realize that it could be better than a high Skullduggery skill.

Do you rely more on spellcasting or on melee? I can't imagine any of my characters getting 100 in three schools of magic, but it's probably because I rely more on melee. I guess they learn faster if you use spells on every battle. I was more the kind of person who tried to save spell points for when they were really needed. I know that magic is more effective since it can hit multiple enemies at once, but I found that the magic points were going down too fast so I prefered to rely on melee.

I'm also to blame for another thing: it took me a while to realize that my 4th and 5th characters (ninja and priest) could hit with someting else than bow or throwing. Once I gave them a pole, the fights became easier. But hey, it was only my first Wizardry experience, so it's normal that I did some mistakes.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:25 am

Well there's no blame to be allocated, we all play different ways, and it took me several run throughs to figure out an awful lot in this game.

I do rely a lot on magic, fighting is rather tedious, and for most of the game the character's aren't very good at it it, and I found I was having to reload far too much. As all my previous play was on an Amiga, without a hard drive, that meant real tedium! Which raises a point about playing time, if you're using an Amiga, and don't have access to a walkthrough, then 200 hours is actually a conservative estimate for the total playing time.

When you are playing under those sort of constraints you find a lot of ways to exploit shortcuts. The biggest glitch exploitation (if it is a glitch, as it also works in VII I'm not sure if it is or not) is the Equip trick, it works like this (Big Spoiler, highlight to read)

Spoiler

If you cast a duration damage spell, Poison Gas, Acid Bomb, Firestorm for example, then have everyone Equip (you don't have to actaully equip anything), then every time you exit the inventory screen, the spell goes off again. This works fore every round the spell is in effect, and you'll be amazed at how much damage you inflict in one round if the spell is cast by the fastest character. One first level Acid Bomb can wipe out groups even in the later stages.

Spoiler ends

You can't of course get the max out of your characters without chnging class, I usually change the first few times at level five, then when I move out of the main castle I move up to 7, then eight in the mines, nine in the Pyramid, ten in the River. All dependent on having the necessary abilities to change to the class I want, which means I often over run the target level.

With my Fairy character, I usually start off as something like a Bard, but with the attributes in place to change to a Valkyrie, then switch between Valkyrie, Ninja etc., basically any class that keeps her Piety, Strength and Vitality high. Similar with other character races, always keep their weaknesses covered until your ready to switch to the final class. Rawulf's are very good at the Samurai/Ninja/Monk cycle for example.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:19 pm

I think I see now the advantages of switching classes. If I ever replay the game I'll try it that way. Thanks for the clarifications Galraen.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:40 pm

I've just imported my party into VII, the first time I've not started CDS from scratch, it's a heck of an advantage, but not too cheesy. Ultimately I intend running the same party through to the end of VIII.

As a break though I started soloing VI, so far so good. Started as a thief, got the rest bumped off, and made it to level 6 before changing to a ninja. I doubt that I'll be able to make it that far through the gae though.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:14 pm

I have now finished every ending of Bane of the Cosmic Forge. I won't play Dark Savant now, but I'm curious about something I read on a website:

Is it true that when you import your characters from W6 to W7, they start at level 5?

And if you start a new party, at what level do they start? Level one?

Thanks in advance.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:22 pm

Yes they do start at level five, where they start is dependent on which ending the party took. Some of them are tough starts too, even with the extras. check out the Wizardry | Prepare Yourself for the Ultimate in Fantasy Games | Wizardry link in Demiath's post, there's also a Wiz 7 walkthrough which lays out the different starting positions.

A new party does start at level one, but in a much easier setting.

I completed the solo run through VI by the way, far from being tough, it was the easiest run through I've ever experienced in that game. I guess it's true for most, if not all RPG games, sol seems llike it should be tough buut often isn't hard at all. The Baldur's Gate series was the same, similar story with the Might & Magic games too.

I'm now into Wiz 8 with theparty that went through VI & VII, different game completely. Unfortunately I've run into technical problems, Everything was fine until I entered Arnika, but then my game started freezing, in the end the game became unplayable.

Gilliatt · Post by **Gilliatt** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:15 pm

Thanks for the answer.

From what I have seen, the ending of VI only influences where you start, but does not have an impact on the overall game since when you start with a new party you can visit these places later. Did I understand well?

Can you also explain in what way it is a complete different game when you import your party to VII and then VIII? Does it only make combat easier or does it influence other elements (except where you start)?

I intend to change my party every game to experiment new combinations, so I am wondering if there is a disadvantage to it.

Demiath · Post by **Demiath** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:55 am

Good work with Wizardry 6, Gilliatt! Making it through the game without the benefits of class switching sure sounds like an impressive achievement to me. It was also nice to hear that I wasn't the only one who really hated those trapped chests...

And no, apart from missing out on the extra experience (including skill points and some random spells) and a few objects carried over from W6, I don't think there are any other significant differences in terms of the gameplay, the story etc. when you create a new party instead of importing one from BCF. But I played through W7 with a new party, so I'm no expert on this.

By the way, with walkthroughs and maps it took me 50 hours to complete W7's main quest (with my utterly unremarkable party just having reached the 35th-36th level). There are some nasty, completely optional bosses at the end of W7 which I haven't defeated yet (I have two left to kill), but after finishing the game I have returned to a previous save and grinded my party up to level 60 (my goal is level 70) so I hope I'll be able to finally beat them in the near future...