Weapon speed and attacks per round

[bonnie662]

How many attacks per round would a level 20 pure thief expect to have with proficiency points in fists?

I noticed there are 3 good fist weapons:

Spoiler

1) Entropic Blade (Fists) 3-23 +2 Speed 1
2) Umei Kaihen 3-23 +3 Speed 2
3) Gauntlets of Celestial Fire: 3-18 +3 +10 fire dmg speed 3

Now, assuming a round lasts 6 seconds,
if the character doesn't get over 2 attacks per round 3 is best.
If it doesn't get over 3 attacks per round, 2 is best.
If it can get more than 3 attacks per round, then 1 is best

[GawainBS]

A pure lvl 20 Thief has only got one attack per round, ever. No more, no less.

Each character has one attack per round.
2 proficiency points in a weapon add 1/2 attack to that weapon type. 5 points add another half.
7 levels of Fighter add yet another 1/2 attack, and 13 levels of Fighter add 1/2 attack.
So a level 20 pure thief has none of these. You can have 1 and 1/2 attack when you get two points in fist weapons, because TNO starts out as a Fighter.

Some weapons add one attack/round, but that is mentioned in the description. I can't recall any of those by heart in PS:T.

Weapon speed in AD&D (and PS:T by extention) doesn't work like you think. The weapon speed indicates in which part of the round (the first, the third, up to the tenth) that your attack occurs. It's more complicated than this, but this is the thick of it.

So, option 3 is the best, in every case.
Hope that helped.

[bonnie662]

So if I leveled a thief to 20,
then got a fighter to level 7 and 13 without the specialization bonuses,
the thief would get +1 attack from 7 and 13, then another half from 2 proficiency points?

Or if you only get the bonuses if you level the figher to 13 before the other classes, if a fighter gets half an attack bonus at level 13, do the other classes get anything at 13?

[GawainBS]

The 1/2 attacks Fighter get al lvl 7 & 13 are fighter class features, like a thief's skillpoints, or the mage's spells. So you get them any time you become a lvl 7/13 fighter, and they "transfer" with you when you become a thief again. Same goes for proficiency points. You even get to use the better THAC0 of your Fighter or Thief class. (Unless you're playing with mods, but that's another story.)
The other classes don't get anything at lvl 13. These fighter-extra-attacks have nothing to do with specialisation bonuses.

[bonnie662]

So with 2 proficiency points in fists, and the level 7 and 13 fighter bonus, you would have 2.5 attacks per round with a fist weapon.

With a weapon of speed 2 and 2.5 attacks per round, would you attack twice one round, then 3 times the next, then twice, then three?

[GawainBS]

Indeed, that's how it works. Do note that the "Speed" of the weapon only determines *when* in the round you attack, not *how many times*.

[bonnie662]

But if for example your weapon speed was 5, a round lasts 6 seconds, and you had 3 attacks per round, wouldn't you be limited to one attack due to slow weapon speed?

Or would you still get 3 hits, just late in the round?

Also to make things more complicated, i've found a link claiming luck affects weapon speed, anyone know the affect per point?

[GawainBS]

You always get all of your attacks, but like you said, that may be late in the round.
Luck indeed affects weapons speed (not attacks per round.)
Each round is 6 second, like you said before.
Each action (weapon attack, spell, etc.) has a speed factor. The action with the lowest speed factor occurs first.
Each participant in a round rolls a d10 and adds his action's speed factor and his reaction modifier (determined by your Dexterity). This final number determines the sequence in which actions occur in a round.
Luck improves all dice roll by a factor. If you've got Luck +3, it improves all rolls by 3, for example. This is pretty powerfull, since it acts like your "natural" diceroll was better, hence increasing the chance of making a critical hit on attack rolls. (Example with Luck +1: now you score a crit on a 20 and a 19, since 19 + 1 = 20.)
This Luck improvement also works for speed. You treat your d10 roll as being one lower.
Other effects of luck: better minimum damage from weapons, better saving throws, better thieving, etc.

BTW, if you want to be sure of these answers, check with galraen, he knows the AD&D rules better than I do.