Hardcore

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:10 pm

I was thinking about so-called hardcore RPG gamers the other day. Maybe because I had nothing better to do or for some equally good reason but there you have it: I was thinking about hardcore gamers. And I was trying to determine whether I fit into that category.

When followed by the word ”gamer”, the word “hardcore” exudes a sense of superiority and exclusivity. The hardcore elite stands aloof from the rest of the gaming community like a squad of mithril-clad elven archers amidst a horde of unwashed peasantry.

Some people erroneously assume that being hardcore simply means spending endless hours in front of their computer and lambasting the “mainstream” RPG’s in various forums. In my opinion, to qualify as hardcore, in addition to not having a life and being prone to nerd rage, you must fulfill at least some of the criteria listed below:

1. You remember how it was “back in the day”

2. Your head is sufficiently screwed up by years of PnP gaming

3. You play games in Ironman mode

4. You don’t mind ASCII graphics

5. You often communicate in terms of turn-based combat

6. You enjoy micromanagement

7. You are able to talk about the difference between “dungeon-crawler” and “sandbox” for hours

8. Your pet’s name is Dogmeat/Imoen/Carth/Ryu

Alas, the bitter truth is that except for some old memories and a certain fondness for long-winded debates, I obviously can’t stake a claim to the Hardcore™ title, according to my own criteria.

Hardcore I am not.

What about you?
Do you consider yourself…

… as hardcore as it gets?
…kinda hardcore-ish?
…a former hardcore veteran mutated into something else ?
…a casual player?
…blissfully ignorant of the subject at hand?

EDIT

The First Amendment (shall henceforth be known as Kipi Amendment):

When buying a new computer, you are able to persuade the salesperson to include a floppy drive, DOS and WIN 95, even if the store stopped carrying these items 10 years ago.

The Second Amendment:

You opt to solo party-based games.

The Third Amendment:

Before starting a game, you spend a week carefully crafting/planning your char. Then you post the build in the forum so the rest of the nerds can give their opinion.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed May 13, 2009 5:22 pm

#1 and 6. That's it. Guess I don't qualify. Damn. Guess I'll just sell myself for spare parts.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Wed May 13, 2009 5:59 pm

#1 Yep, that's me
#2 Guilty as charged
#3 Nope, I'm not masochistic enough
#5 Not guilty
#6 Sometimes
#7 Only for maybe ten minutes
#8 My main SN, Galraen, is from my favourite PnP character, so I gues that's yes

Not sure I'd call myself hardcore though, spend too much time obsessing about baseball for that.

@ Fable

Are you sure #7 shouldn't be on your list? I recall you posting about Dungeon Crawlers (M&M 6) and sandbox (Oblivion) on an occasion or three.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:10 pm

Not sure if I qualify as I spend about fifteen or so hours of my free day playing games, the minimum being eight or so.

As for the numbers:

1. I wasn't around "back in the day" but I did start with second edition and still use that set on the occasions when I do play D&D.

2. Not overly, rather, the terms are always there, but Baldur's Gate is more responsible for that, as it got me into D&D.

3. Any favorite game, definitely.

4. Don't mind them, definitely. Made tiny little games in Java and C++ for friends' enjoyment a few years back.

5. Unsure what is meant by this.

6. I started to, but only recently, at the beginning of this year, due to a Warcraft III map called "Defense of the Ancients".

7. I don't think I can make it past a few minutes.

8. I don't have a pet.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:13 pm

galraen wrote:@ Fable

Are you sure #7 shouldn't be on your list? I recall you posting about Dungeon Crawlers (M&M 6) and sandbox (Oblivion) on an occasion or three.

Yes, you're correct. That's put me at #1, 6, and 7. It's just enough to keep me from being dragged away and replaced by a Gamestop store. Thanks!

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:07 am

None of the above activities as I didn't engage in any of them.

I've dealt with micromanagement in certain games before, and while I don't mind it, I've never been a big fan of it.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu May 14, 2009 6:45 am

1. Aye, certainly do. Played most SNES RPGS on the console and played the older RPGs later on PC via DosBox/other means.

2. Yes, I often make characters up in my head as I'm driving, waiting for the train, etc.

3. No, I'm with Galraen on this, it's rather masochistic.

4. Only when they interfere with the gameplay, like being illegible. Related to that: I cursed Warcraft 1 for not having click and drag and "smart-cursors", rendering it near-unplayable.

5. No, but I tend to think that way.

6. I do. Actually, I think most of the dumbing down in games comes from doing away with micromanagement. Mind you, this is not the same as having an unintuitive/cumbersome inventory system.

7. Uhu.

8. His name is Granville, so no, he isn't named after an NPC. I did make stats for him in D&D, though.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu May 14, 2009 6:51 am

DesR85 wrote:I've dealt with micromanagement in certain games before, and while I don't mind it, I've never been a big fan of it.

I don't know anybody who enjoys micromanagement, with the possible exception of accountants who have gone over to the Dark Side. It's not the controls themselves that matter, but enjoying the degree of control you have over establishing a business and rising in the Hansa (Patrician series), or watching how your city design is used by AI creatures (Sim City series).

But if you don't like that, I can understand. Still, you're a fan of strategy titles, aren't you? The best have quite a bit of micromanagement involved.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Thu May 14, 2009 7:17 am

fable wrote:But if you don't like that, I can understand. Still, you're a fan of strategy titles, aren't you? The best have quite a bit of micromanagement involved.

I can tolerate the level of micromanagement in SimCity and in some strategy titles like Command & Conquer to name a few, but what I've never been fond of is the micromanagement of single or squad of units in certain RTS titles, both old and recent ones up till the point of using their 'special' abilities, especially in games which require you to manage large number of units.

Yes, I can tolerate grouping up of units in those games, coming up with battle tactics to get the best results (such as pincer style attack, etc.), but what I didn't like the introduction of special abilities in those games requiring you to deal with armies such as Starcraft and Dawn of War to name a few. Not to say that I have anything against those games. I like them, but sometimes the micromanagement aspect can be frustrating at times.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:55 am

1. You remember how it was “back in the day”

Well... depends on how long back we have to for that. But my earliest memories are around time of Fallout 1, so I think I qualify in that matter.

2. Your head is sufficiently screwed up by years of PnP gaming

Only started seriously play PnP couple of years ago, as it's almost impossible to find any good group from my area. Luckily, my university has certain "club" for all kind of PnP and board games, so now I play regulary (if my schedule fits).

3. You play games in Ironman mode

Definately! Perhaps not in first playthrough or even second, but at some point yes. Most interesting experiment was trying to play D2 in Ironman mode. That's hard, trust me

4. You don’t mind ASCII graphics

Don't mind, and actually I still regulary play ADOM. Also, I think MUDs should counted on this category, which I play at times when I have lots of free time at hand.

5. You often communicate in terms of turn-based combat

Not actually sure what this is aiming for, so I think I don't qualify. If someone has good explanation, then I may return to this.

6. You enjoy micromanagement

Well... If outside of RPGs my one of favourite games are Civilizations, and in RPGs I like to powergame a lot (after finishing the game once or twice), I think I qualify

7. You are able to talk about the difference between “dungeon-crawler” and “sandbox” for hours

Perhaps even days, depending on who I'm talking with.

8. Your pet’s name is Dogmeat/Imoen/Carth/Ryu

Don't have any pets, put who knows. So I don't calculate this question for qualifying.

So... as a result I think I drop somewhere between Hardcore gamer and Semi-hardcore gamer.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu May 14, 2009 9:29 am

# 1 (today was spent on dentist visits, Thief 2 and Chrono Trigger) and 6 (curse you Baldur's Gate 2!).
Casual gamer.

Loki[D.d.G] · Post by **Loki[D.d.G]** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:08 pm

1. Grew up with various genres, none of which were RPGs. Guess i got on the train pretty late, but have been catching up with the games old and new alike over the years.

3. All hail Ironman mode!!

4. Don't mind it at all

5. Like the rest, i need clarification on this...

6. I'm with Des on this. Depending on my mood, its enjoyable to a certain extent

7. A couple of mins will be my best bet

Guess that makes me hardcore-ish

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:44 pm

I see some people have a problem with #5... Maybe I should've worded it differently.

Well... If you've never thought, "Damn, I failed my roll again" (while talking to your girlfriend) or never wished for VATS (while dealing with your Boss) you've never lived.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:59 pm

1. Well I remember space invaders! But I was in college from 1995 till 2004 and during that time I was either studying or too drunk to play games.

2. I think playing DnD modules with myself because all my friends only play sports qualifies...Well did have DnD group once but DM quit etc

3. Only titan quest. And I don't think ARPGs fit the spirit of her questionaire.

4. Hell no! I like good graphics. Why the **** did I pay all the money for the computer if no graphics. I like good everything though so spend some time on everything... Make it the best game ever. And free!

5. No I try to monopolize conversations... I never like to give a turn

6. hell no. But I don't like when all I have to do is buff up/equip then just charge everything and still win even though stupid caster AI.

7. What?

8. Nope

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Thu May 14, 2009 6:29 pm

This thread really is nothing like I thought it would be when I read the title.

But, since I'm here, I also fail to qualify. All I can answer yes to is 1, 3(to a certain extent I employ house rules on games that are too easy, but I don;t think that counts here) and maybe 6.

I wonder if that makes me softcore.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:42 pm

I don't see why people say that ironman mode is masochistic. I mean for a game that you know like the back of your hand, such as the Baldur's Gate series, it's easy.

As for micromanagement, I only do that in RTS games, which can't be helped in my opinion.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Fri May 15, 2009 4:05 am

Lady Dragonfly wrote:I see some people have a problem with #5... Maybe I should've worded it differently.

Well... If you've never thought, "Damn, I failed my roll again" (while talking to your girlfriend) or never wished for VATS (while dealing with your Boss) you've never lived.

Aren't you more of hardcore RPGer if you had to think a few moments what VATS was again?

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:04 pm

GawainBS wrote:Aren't you more of hardcore RPGer if you had to think a few moments what VATS was again?

I think so. AP would better suit for that question

But yeah, if that's the explanation of question numnber five, then I belong to Hardcore group more than semi-hardcore.

Loki[D.d.G] · Post by **Loki[D.d.G]** » Fri May 15, 2009 10:59 pm

Lady Dragonfly wrote:Well... If you've never thought, "Damn, I failed my roll again" (while talking to your girlfriend) or never wished for VATS (while dealing with your Boss) you've never lived.

I do indeed wish for vats on a regular basis, and a pause button to boot, so i could dissect a problem better, and just keep life moving that little bit slower...

I still consider myself a semi-hardcore gamer tho. Hmm, maybe i should get a few words of advice from Kip, our resident hardcore RPGer (self-proclaimed), to increase my prestige level. What say u, oh wise master?

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Sat May 16, 2009 5:01 am

I suppose I'm an hardcore casual gamer, or a casual hardcore gamer, depending on my mood.