Patriotism

justAidan · Post by **justAidan** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 10:33 am

Ok I just want to say a few things I'm not a good speaker and I won't pretend to be so just bare with me, oh and not trying to anger anyone just asking you to think.

The whole idea of Patriotism giving your life for your country and so on seems to me to be just a form of brainwashing.
People who follow the goverment or do something for the goverment are seen as patriotic and others who do not, prefering to question are seen as selfish and unpatriotic. Espesially during a war this can be used and even after. The dying for your country or refusing to fight for a somthing your against is an extreme example.

waiting for your views

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:09 pm

It depends on the 'patriot'. A true patriot, standing up for his country and fighting for what he believes in, must come to his own decision. He's not a patriot because he follows orders; he's a patriot because he believes in his country/cause.

Patriotism in the truest sense is good - George Washington, for example. Winston Churchill also fits the bill. People who just follow their country because they are told to aren't patriots - they're fools.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:26 pm

@Quark: Hmmmmm, then I must have been a FOOL, when I served in the Army for 8 years. 2 of it was spent on the DMZ in Korea. Germany, along the East German boarder,got to watch the wall come down. Then Saudi, Kuwait, then back to Germany. So with your defination of patriotism, I am a FOOL. In the Army, I had to take orders. But, IMO, a person, who calls other people fools, is an IDIOT.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:41 pm

Originally posted by Darkpoet:
@Quark: Hmmmmm, then I must have been a FOOL, when I served in the Army for 8 years. 2 of it was spent on the DMZ in Korea. Germany, along the East German boarder,got to watch the wall come down. Then Saudi, Kuwait, then back to Germany. So with your defination of patriotism, I am a FOOL. In the Army, I had to take orders. But, IMO, a person, who calls other people fools, is an IDIOT.

If I'm interpreting Quark correctly, I think you're misinerpreting Quark.

You joined the army because you wanted to be a part of the military that fights to keep this country safe, ne? That is patriotism.

If one were to join the army just because they saw some ad that said to join the army because that "makes you patriotic" they are a fool.

I personally would never join the military because of the uniformity required within the army and I'm not good at taking orders.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:43 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
If I'm interpreting Quark correctly, I think you're misinerpreting Quark.

You joined the army because you wanted to be a part of the military that fights to keep this country safe, ne? That is patriotism.

If one were to join the army just because they saw some ad that said to join the army because that "makes you patriotic" they are a fool.

I personally would never join the military because of the uniformity required within the army and I'm not good at taking orders.

Yeah, but you don't go around calling people fools, no matter what they do!!!!

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:46 pm

*Ysh taps DP on the shoulder*

Hey DP - come and chill

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 2:58 pm

Originally posted by Yshania:
*Ysh taps DP on the shoulder*

Hey DP - come and chill

I would like to Ysh. I'm just tired of all these discussions. Three aircraft hit three buildings, two of which collapse. Many people die, I have seen death, for many years. Now, people act like it is the end of the world. Get a friggen grip everyone, do something happy, instead of over analyzing everything. Next thing, they will want to do is start anal probing.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:12 pm

@DP: Bout time someone said it.

Darkpoet · Post by **Darkpoet** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:25 pm

Originally posted by Aegis:
@DP: Bout time someone said it.

Don't patronize me, Aegis. You have been, adding fuel to the fire as much as everyone else. So, you are as much as to blame also.

Does everyone realize, how many people have left Gamebanshee, because of all the Religous and Political bullsh!t? I'm tired of all the "I don't mean to offend everyone". What a crock of sh!t! Everytime, I come on here, it looks like a physiatrists convention. I already see one, I don't need to see more. This board is meant to have a good time, not brow beat, everyone with your idealistic bullsh!t!!

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:47 pm

@DP: You wanna know what. I am tired of fighting. That is all I have been doing since Elementry school. If you don't think my opinions are valid, then say it instead of just getting pissed.

Word · Post by **Word** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:07 pm

@DP We have all added fuel to this fire. Including me and you. These are bigs problems that need to be dicussed IMHO. Joking is great and fine to and I enjoy it but I'm looking for a good combination of both.

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:36 pm

@DP: I did not call you a fool - I don't even know why you joined the army. But I've seen alot of stupid people make stupid decisions for the wrong stupid reason. Tiananmen Square: the protesters were patriots, the believed that they deserved freedom. The soldiers followed an order to kill their own kind.

I'd say that's good enough reason to call them a fool.

This may not be an exact quote, but Socrates said 'the unquestioned life is not worth living'. Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant: it's hell for everyone else.

Happy Evil · Post by **Happy Evil** » Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:49 pm

Originally posted by justAidan:
Ok I just want to say a few things I'm not a good speaker and I won't pretend to be so just bare with me, oh and not trying to anger anyone just asking you to think.

The whole idea of Patriotism giving your life for your country and so on seems to me to be just a form of brainwashing.
People who follow the goverment or do something for the goverment are seen as patriotic and others who do not, prefering to question are seen as selfish and unpatriotic. Espesially during a war this can be used and even after. The dying for your country or refusing to fight for a somthing your against is an extreme example.

waiting for your views

It has to do with personal convictions not brainwashing..

You do not have to agree with the government. That is the beautiful thing about Democracy.

A patriot, IMHO, is only defined by someone who actually sacrifices for his country. In essence, his people, his peers, his family, as well as his government. Acting to protect a way of life. A social structure.
If you disagree with the government then so be it.

If you feel you could never be a Patriot under any circumstances, then perhaps, you are a man of no convictions.

[ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: Happy Evil ]