One hand better than duel wield?

Mech0z · Post by **Mech0z** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:34 am

I have a "good" onehanded weapon but when I equip another weapon my dps drops :/ how come?

darkpark · Post by **darkpark** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:22 pm

It drops because your DPS is average between the two weapons and your secondary weapon doesn't hit as frequently so that brings down the average.

Mech0z · Post by **Mech0z** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:16 am

But do my mainhand hit less frequent when I duelwield? Because then its only because of the skills in warfare that its worth something!

darkpark · Post by **darkpark** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:29 am

your main-hand always hits at the same speed but your second weapon hits every so often depending on your skill in duel-wield.

Valaryant · Post by **Valaryant** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:50 am

so far, in my humble point of view, dual wield SUX prety much, sad cuz i love dual wielding chars

Atthem · Post by **Atthem** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:29 pm

So, tell me if I'm understanding this correctly, because the drop in DPS when I equip a second weapon has baffled me for a while as well.

Let's assume the following to be true:
you have mainhand weapon with dps of x and offhand weapon with dps of y.
you have 6 points into Dual Wield, giving you 22% chance of being used.
you have 6 points into Hew, giving you 10% chance of +50% damage from both weapons (is this true?)
The mainhand speed (and therefore dps) is unaffected.

Now, in words, we have your full mainhand dps. Add to that 22% of your offhand dps for dual wielding. Add to that 10% of 150% of your combined dps for both weapons through Hew.

This gives us the following formula:

x+.22y+.1(1.5(x+y))

Simplify to

x+.22y+.15x+.15y

Further

1.15x+.37y

So, while I have one sword that gives me 1461 dps, and another that gives me 1128 dps, the game tells me I have 1295 dps, but really I have 2098.

Is this correct? Can anyone confirm or deny my conclusion?

Thanks

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:15 am

You forgot one thing, you don't get two sets of "damage per second" for having dual wield. Basically, when dual wielding, damage per second is averaged based on the two original DPS's from each weapon.

So, X weapon does 1000 damage per second, Y weapon does 1500 damage per second, XY weapon's do 1250 damage per second.

gustaveau · Post by **gustaveau** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:30 pm

Then it doesn't sound really nice to go with a dual wield character. What are the possible advantages then?

Atthem · Post by **Atthem** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:27 pm

If Y does 1500 and xy does 1250, why would anyone not just use Y and a shield? You could get very similar attribute bonuses from a shield as you could from a second weapon, plus the added defense, plus not lower your dps.

If what you are saying is correct, then dual wield is perhaps the worst skill-for-cost in the history of games. It HAS to be something more like what I proposed, but maybe not exactly like I proposed it.

PheonixFire · Post by **PheonixFire** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:41 am

See the thing is with dual wielding u get special attacks like hew and crosscut which for the case of hew boost ur attack damage

Atthem · Post by **Atthem** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:14 pm

Pheonixfire, I think you replied to just my last post without reading this whole thread. If you read my original, you'd see that my formula for accurate Dual Wield dps takes into account having 6 points in Dual Wield and 6 points into Hew.

My last post is in response to Siberys's post stating that dual wielding dps is based on an average of your two weapons. While this is the number shown on the screen, this is not really your dps. This is just the result of lazy code.

After reading threads on other forums dealing with this same topic and applying basic common sense, I have to conclude that my formula is probably very, very close to your true dps when dual wielding. Maybe in a future patch, this will be addressed.

T1m1 · Post by **T1m1** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:57 am

atthem Siberys is right! the game shows you medle DPS you hit with one or second weapon the 1250DPS! but when you char wil use dublewield tech. (hew, cross cut, dublewield.....) youre DPS reach2500 + damage from skill used in that moment!

Atthem · Post by **Atthem** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:48 pm

T1m1 wrote:atthem Siberys is right! the game shows you medle DPS you hit with one or second weapon the 1250DPS! but when you char wil use dublewield tech. (hew, cross cut, dublewield.....) youre DPS reach2500 + damage from skill used in that moment!

Yes, that's exactly what I've been trying to say, but couldn't find the right words to say it.

Kudos!

T1m1 · Post by **T1m1** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:42 pm

Atthem wrote:Yes, that's exactly what I've been trying to say, but couldn't find the right words to say it.

Kudos!

see that was quite simple

for all to understand!!

x weap = 1500 dmg
y weap = 1000 dmg
we assume that char. used hew (+ 50% dmg)
that giwes us simple math
x+y+[50%(x+y)]=1500+1000+[50%(2500)]=1500+1000+1250=3750
thats the count (I think)
if im wrong tel me about it!!

T1m1 · Post by **T1m1** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:53 pm

one hand or dual?? Hmm...!! it depends what you want to reach! dublewield (fast killing mass of enemies) shield(you can stand face to face with allmost every enemie without retreating!! OOO and the pulwerize ability skill distruption

gr8)so one or dual?? it depends what you like!! i allways have a shield! example in D2 my favorite chars was Pal or Ama!!

nice talking with you guys!!

PS: Attheim your counting was wrong!! something about 1600 damage!! and its no DPS its damage in single hit!!

shanco · Post by **shanco** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:33 pm

The shield is the far better option because u have a 48 percent chance to stun or skill disrupt and do extra damage(with the three passive shield strikes). Plus not to mention all the resistances and colossus form. Its just hard to go past it dual wield Is like having ace king in poker it looks good but mostly does nothing.

T1m1 · Post by **T1m1** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:20 am

shanco wrote:The shield is the far better option because u have a 48 percent chance to stun or skill disrupt and do extra damage(with the three passive shield strikes). Plus not to mention all the resistances and colossus form. Its just hard to go past it dual wield Is like having ace king in poker it looks good but mostly does nothing.

and when you use two weapons you dont have Colosus??!! conqueror!!
plus with dual you have two hits in one when used any from of dualwield!!
even more!!
when u use shield you dont have 48% chance! you have 16% chance for one of thre!! they dont count together!! and in dual ther is tree, the chance to use dualwield is counted together gives 52%!!
think man, think!!!!

shanco · Post by **shanco** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:34 am

I know my times tables buddy 16*3 = 48? Its up to your preference i suppose. I prefer having the shield because u have a 48% chance of a shield smash plus the ability to survive battles better with shield block and shield bonuses(Aenious shield). For example my conquerer was undefeted until my 3rd run at toxeus in legendary. That dude is nasty!

Vidar · Post by **Vidar** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:37 pm

I have to kind of disagree here. Duel wield you get more damage (also equals greater life leech quantity) and bonuse chances to: WW, crosscut, hew and double sword attack = hitting multiple enemies.

I agree with the fact that potentially you can block more damage with a shield and in certain circumstances (e.g. defense mastery you will get greater benefits) but all and all if you get the right equipment duel wielding can be just as good.

I have built 2 types of melee character so far only: Spirit/warfare 65th level (single weapon and shield) and a Dream/warfare 55th level (duel wield).

The main question is the bonus resistances/defense you may get from a shield vs the extra damage you get from a second weapon and can you offset it with other equipment.

I have found that yes you can with the right combo of green text and legendary items.

T1m1 · Post by **T1m1** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:11 am

shanco wrote:I know my times tables buddy 16*3 = 48? Its up to your preference i suppose. I prefer having the shield because u have a 48% chance of a shield smash plus the ability to survive battles better with shield block and shield bonuses(Aenious shield). For example my conquerer was undefeted until my 3rd run at toxeus in legendary. That dude is nasty!

You dont get it man!!
i dont know how to get perfect words for you to understand!!
you have 16% for one,16% for second and 16% for third!!
and in dual you fave 52% for one of for!!!!
i dont defend dualwield, I use shield but thats the numbers!!