Nature Mage Skill - Absorption

bushwhacker2k · Post by **bushwhacker2k** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:12 pm

I have read over all the skills and checked here for the max values, and this sounds too good to be true. is Absorption worth it? or does it not absorb everything?

Vai'Lutra · Post by **Vai'Lutra** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:40 am

Well I've got a level 42 Taar and as far as I can tell it's as good as it sounds.

JessicaElytis · Post by **JessicaElytis** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:31 pm

It doesn't make you invulnerable, but it is one of the nicer high level skills that make mages worth the hassle of dragging them up from the somebody-sneezed-and-the-mage-died levels.

If DS2 was PvP, then it'd be worth less. Mobs can't react with new tactics no matter how well programmed. The skill works just like it reads though. Keep in mind, there are some monster "spells" that are not spells due to the tagging in the program. This is also the same for some ranged attacks that act like magic attacks.

But all-in-all, yes, it is as good as it sounds.

~Jessy

bushwhacker2k · Post by **bushwhacker2k** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:18 pm

dang

cool, thanks

btw can u list one or two things that don't count as magic (not referring to melee and ranged) like a specific creature attack?

KillerGremal · Post by **KillerGremal** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:00 pm

Absorption eg. won't work for most kinds of spit-attacks (like Skitters have). Even if you sometimes can't see a clear projectile they are usually defined as ranged attacks.

Besides of this Absorption will work quite everywhere as long as a spell is used in any way. It even has too little restrictions, generally it works but its implementation is really doubtable...
You should keep that in mind specially when using 'Summon Bond' skill because Absorption has no influence on the relayed damage on summons.

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:18 am

bushwhacker2k wrote:I have read over all the skills and checked here for the max values, and this sounds too good to be true. is Absorption worth it? or does it not absorb everything?

Nope, its not as good as it sounds.

these are not our resistances, but absorption, a separate thing. The problem is, the more damage is stopped by other means(like resistances, or summon bond) the less will remain for absorption to absorb. For example with max 80% res, only 20% will remain for abs to work on. And even if we get absorb to the max skill level30 ( 85%) it will only work with the remaining 20, and be equivalent to 17% real resistances added. Ofc the lower the res the better the absorb. At zero resistances absorb acts just as good as resistances. At negative resistances even better. But that hardly ever happens. Also absorb allows you to break the maximum resistances limit which would be then 80%+17%=97%. Which is pretty good, but not really needed in DS2. In all thats an OK skill, but not great. Because spending points in survival and natural bond will get us just as much res, and mana w/o a need to be hurt.

KillerGremal · Post by **KillerGremal** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:08 pm

Like partially denoted above, 'Absorption' is generally no good implementation.
As far as i remember, it will be respected before resistances, and even more wired, it will increase your life first by the absorbed amount in order to make you suffer some CPU clocks later the usual/full damage - so from code-perspective this has nothing to do with absorption or reduction, this is just a logical hack that has more or less the same result.

The deeper reasons for this strange code part are unclear. Spontaniously i would say it has something to do with damage relfection, but as you know probably, magical damage never will be reflected by default.
Perhaps in X-mas holidays i can take a closer look onto it...

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:13 pm

KillerGremal
From a player side perspective the order doesnt matter it would be then 85%+(0,80*15%)=97% as well. Diablo 2 influence here too, although the damage there was first subtracted and then added.

Good that you posted though. I cant seem to figure out where you post/read the most. Thank you very much for creating such a great mod as Aranna legacy, probably the best DS2 mod ever created i think.

But there seems to be a bug with timer refreshing for buff spells. Spirit embrace works cumulative with ice and lighting resistances( but not fire). It is disturbing since mages dont autocast on summons(great would-be feature) and if you cast it on them, everyone else gets a free +30ice, lightning res, until the previous spell doesnt run off. Or then someone dies same happens. Im unsure if other buffs have same problem. with spirit it was the easiest to see.

Also having multiple summons turned on by default is overkill. Summons are nearly overpowered in the game with BW, having twice the life and armor of a tank(ketril), provoke nonstop, dealing extreme damage with Aether blast, ( multiple ABs would be just crazy) and being the source of life for a mage with summon bond. Maxed out SummonBond means a mage has 73% resistance vs everything(!), and multiple summons ensure he can always recast another before the last one is killed. This seems rather targeted for someone interesting in experimenting, not a regular player.

KillerGremal · Post by **KillerGremal** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:13 am

Thanks for note about the buff timer, i will check that.
Auto-casting on sommons would be possible, perhaps. I guess it isn't added in the original game since it seems probable that auto-casting may kill/break summon casting process anyhow (casting a sommon takes ~3x longer than the interval of the auto-cast AI lasts).

Thanks too about your opinion about the multiple summons.
Indeed a mage may become too powerful if you can afford many skill points on the relevant skills...

If mentioning the properties of summons, the Ketril is the best armored summon that exists in the game.
Hmmm... while GPG has re-blanced most armor values on items in v2.3/BW it seems GPG has forgotten also to balance the armor values of summons in v2.3/BW!? At least i know pets have been forgotten and so summons could too - i will check that once.

According to my testings (most done in v2.2 since there is no toolkit vor v2.3/BW), if you want to become a reasonable summon mage in mercenary mode then you really must concentrate on summon skills instead of prefering skills increasing eg. your ice damage.
But if you are a high-leveled nature mage you probably will consider yourself as freezing or healing mage - 'sadly' in many cases you still have enough skill points left to afford 3 or 4 strong summons although this probalby never was the intended destiny for your mage.
I hope i will find some ways to balance it better...

However it's a native balancing matter in DS2 that low-leveled mages are probabply a bit to vulnerable while they become generally very powerful at higher levels since they profit most form class-external skills like Dodge, Fortitude, etc.
But i'm not sure if this really was intended/planned by GPG because eg. a mage can reach Survival skill sooner than Absorption - is really a bit controversy since both has (almost) the same effect...

roller1234 · Post by **roller1234** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:34 am

Not if we dont lvlup buffs/invulnerability lvl3. These points just go to summons instead and its not long before such a mage begins to dominate the battlefield. Lets see
39(lvl40)+2(started)+9(quests)=50 points by the end of the base merc campaign

5 natural bond(not really needed)
8 Aquatic Affinity(vine damage and healing)
1 embrace(for lvl1 invulnerability)
6 arcane renewal( prereq for lvl2 aether blast)
3 summon fortitude for provoke
10 summon might ( prereq for lvl2 aether blast)
2 summon bond ( prereq for lvl2 aether blast)

=35 out of 50

throwing some points into nurturing gift for healing and we are set somewhere around act2/act3 merc, with quite a liberal points distribution. The rest goes into lvl3 AB, which are skills we needed anyway like arcane renewal. And Vine damage is (practically) maxed already.

We got: full scale damage, adequate healing, free melee/ele resists, invulnerability, aether blast, a free tank with provoke. And all that in the middle of merc. Adding multiple summons on top of that... now this doesnt sound very fair to other classes even that early in the game, not to speak about later parts. I have read some posts saying summons were weak. Dont know how they were playing really. Though ofc this can be quite different in solo play.

Yes, summon's armor is quite high my tank s/s lvl45 right now has around 280 armor, while the ketril having around 470. Im not sure though if its not by design, since summon provoke does not seem to increase armor, unlike that fighter power.

KillerGremal · Post by **KillerGremal** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:59 am

Thanks for this listing.

Well i agree but with 50 skill points a char is more suitable for veteran mode than typical for mercenary mode!?

Generally i think the hole game-balancing in DS2 gets a bit beyond of control anywhere around/above level 40.
As mentioned, playing a(ny) mage within mercenary mode may be painful but towards veteran mode and above they get quite strong (if not the strongest char types at all) and in v2.2 even more.

About (summon) armor values in v2.3/BW: While GPG has rebalanced/reduced the magical armor bonuses they seem to have forgotten to apply these changes with pets and summons. I don't think pets/summons have been skipped here intentionally, at least partially this armor-balancing should have been applied on them too.
In the Aranna Legacy mod this already has been done for pets in order to get pet stats that are more resonable compared to chars and the same/similar should happen for summons too - so far this has nothing to do with multiple summons, this is rather some kind of game fix.

About balancing multiple summons, Ather Blast really must be revised. Perhaps it's also possible to add a new aggro-type making monsters angry directly on the caster if too many of his summons are nearby - this will surely bring the challenge back. Of course you still have a generous damage output but woe betide you if you don't use it or the related skills wisely.

...and soory for drifting away a bit from the main topic.