dual classing bg1 or bg2

[Denarth]

Hey… (skip to questions if you dont want backround I’m new to bg1 and bg2, actually a first time rpg’er ( tend to have stayed in simulations, [have pilots license], and strategy rts genres). But I’m a big lotr fan and the recent movie has rekindled an old love… so I checked the game reviews and decided on bg2 and ran out and bought it. Only to find out I can’t start a player from scratch, so… I found bg1 original saga which includes ToSC (didn’t know if this edition makes a dif or not). enough of that…… ive been doing my homework but being new I have lots a questions so I will try not to be to verbose.

My intent was to take a PC from bg1 thru to bg2 ToB (and beyond ?) as a ‘not –evil- aligned-party’. Play single player and pickup game given npc’s. I decided on PC as NG, human, fighter who I will dual-class to mage later. Rolled up a natural str18/47, dex18, con18, int18, wis10, chr 4. probably goofed on the last 2 abilities but I read somewhere about a ring of hum infl. And imoen has decent chr for dialogue. Prof. ++large sword, +bow, +blunt, had no idea how to select these.

Selection of my pc/class based on loads of reviews that a kensai/mage kicks a$$ and it seemed a good choice to carry thru.

Q
1. will I be dualing in bg1 or bg2? Can I even dual in bg1? I’m assuming the game will prompt me to dual when it becomes available? Can someone confirm this as I haven’t seen any greyed out selection to dual in bg1.
2. if I dual in bg1 as fight/mage, when I get to bg2 will I be able to get the kit to be a kensai/mage? Or am I stuck with (generic fighter)/mage
3. what if I don’t dual in bg1 but wait til bg2, can I get a fighter kit then, any problems waiting til bg2? like having too weak a mage or anything?
4. Do my XP go to zero when I elect to dual or is it displayed as class1xp/class2xp.
5. as a dual fight/mage who has leveled up completely i.e. benefits of both classes, can I wear armor and cast spells?
6. if I can’t be a kensai/mage in bg2, should I go with my first love character, a half-elf multi either thief/mage or fight/thief/mage or mage/thief. Any thoughts on this? I tend to like mage spells and thieving abilities . also I thought first time thru I would use the fighter/mage no cheats. Then next time thru use my multiclass and hack the XP so my multi attains some powerful spells. thoughts on that?
7. whats a munchkin tactic refer to? is it a hack? or considered a cheat?

Thanks,
newbie but eager , hope my first post wasn't too long

[Sailor Saturn]

I've only been through BG1 once and I'm still relatively new to BG2, but I might be able to answer some of your questions.

Originally posted by Denarth:
<STRONG>My intent was to take a PC from bg1 thru to bg2 ToB (and beyond ?) as a ‘not –evil- aligned-party’. Play single player and pickup game given npc’s. I decided on PC as NG, human, fighter who I will dual-class to mage later. Rolled up a natural str18/47, dex18, con18, int18, wis10, chr 4. probably goofed on the last 2 abilities but I read somewhere about a ring of hum infl. And imoen has decent chr for dialogue. Prof. ++large sword, +bow, +blunt, had no idea how to select these.</STRONG>

I tend to not worry much about the wis and chr either, though a friend of mine who DMs D&D games told me that wis affects your saving throws. There is a Ring of Human Influence in BG2. I don't know if it was in BG1, though.

<STRONG>1. will I be dualing in bg1 or bg2? Can I even dual in bg1? I’m assuming the game will prompt me to dual when it becomes available? Can someone confirm this as I haven’t seen any greyed out selection to dual in bg1.</STRONG>

IIRC correctly, you can dual once you reach level 2. On the char stats screen is where you'll find the button for it, I believe. You can dual in either BG1 or BG2.

<STRONG>2. if I dual in bg1 as fight/mage, when I get to bg2 will I be able to get the kit to be a kensai/mage? Or am I stuck with (generic fighter)/mage</STRONG>

Not sure.

<STRONG>3. what if I don’t dual in bg1 but wait til bg2, can I get a fighter kit then, any problems waiting til bg2? like having too weak a mage or anything?

4. Do my XP go to zero when I elect to dual or is it displayed as class1xp/class2xp.</STRONG>

I'll answer these two together. When you dual, you "start over" as the new class at level 1. Any special abilities/skills/etc of the first class are unusable until your new class is equal to the level of your old class. You are also limited in how high a level you can attain in each, I believe, because you reach the xp cap when your total xp for both classes equals the xp cap.

<STRONG>5. as a dual fight/mage who has leveled up completely i.e. benefits of both classes, can I wear armor and cast spells?</STRONG>

Unless there is special armor in BG2 that I don't know about, you can't wear any armor and still be able to cast spells. As a Fighter/Mage, you can put armor on, but you cannot cast spells while wearing the armor.

<STRONG>6. if I can’t be a kensai/mage in bg2, should I go with my first love character, a half-elf multi either thief/mage or fight/thief/mage or mage/thief. Any thoughts on this? I tend to like mage spells and thieving abilities . also I thought first time thru I would use the fighter/mage no cheats. Then next time thru use my multiclass and hack the XP so my multi attains some powerful spells. thoughts on that? </STRONG>

If you go with any of these multis, keep in mind that your max level is lowered because the xp cap stops you when your total xp for all the classes reaches a certain point. You also level up more slowly with a multi-class. Also, the Fighter/Mage/Thief(not sure about the other multis) only have one quick weapon slot.

<STRONG>7. whats a munchkin tactic refer to? is it a hack? or considered a cheat?</STRONG>

I wouldn't know.

Hope I've been able to provide some help.

[Fnord]

Welcome to the GameBanshee forums, Denarth.

Sailor Saturn has already answered most of your questions, but I'd just like to elaborate a bit on a few specific points.

Firstly, provided you have adequate ability scores, you can dual-class your character as soon as you reach 2nd level. However, I wouldn't recommend doing that; once you choose a new class, you can no longer advance in your first class. Most people who play kensai/mages wait until reaching 9th level in BG2 before dualling to a mage (9th level being the highest possible level you can take a fighter class and still max out your mage class at level 17), though it's certainly a possibility to dual-class your PC at an earlier point if you prefer.

To the best of my knowledge, BG2 won't allow you to select a kit for a class that you no longer advance in. Therefore, if you decide to dual-class your PC before SoA, you'll have a fighter/mage instead of a kensai/mage. I'm not certain, however. What I am certain of is that if you take a straight fighter into BG2, you'll be prompted to select a kit for him/her.

As to whether or not you'd be able to wear armor and cast spells, the answer is most definitely no. However, kensais can't wear armor to begin with, which is why the kensai/mage combination is so popular. You get the benefits of the kensai kit with virtually no penalties. Kensai/mages typically wear powerful mage robes in lieu of armor.

If you want to play through the whole trilogy with a kensai/mage, I'd suggest that you hold off dualling your PC until BG2. Level 9 is a good place to get the ball rolling. If you're interested in thief/mages, then you'll definitely like Imoen. You can dual-class her at level 7 and still have enough slack in ToSC to get her to level 8 as a mage.

On a final note, a "munchkin" or "cheese" tactic is one that deliberately takes advantage of the game's AI to make battles easier. For instance, using area affect spells outside your line of site because you know an enemy is there is considered a cheese tactic. Likewise, placing a dozen traps where you know a powerful enemy will spawn is cheesy. It isn't cheating per se, but it's certainly unfair. That said, you should use whatever tactics you like when you're playing your game. That you enjoy it is all that matters. I like big, epic battles, and I have no qualms about raising dead allies, so I tend to avoid cheese tactics.

I hope we've answered your questions.

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Fnord ]

[Denarth]

yes, thank you for the quick responses. Fnord- good info and it tied everytihing together for me.

not trying to beat the d.horse but
I should have worded my Q#1 as 'if I dual my fighter into a mage at the optimum level (which 99% say level 9) then which game would i naturally (with XP cap on and getting 80-90% of available XP) be in..bg1, along the sword coast somewhere, or bg2?

thanks...i think i'm ready, let the fireworks begin!!

[Fnord]

Originally posted by Denarth:
<STRONG>yes, thank you for the quick responses. Fnord- good info and it tied everytihing together for me.

not trying to beat the d.horse but
I should have worded my Q#1 as 'if I dual my fighter into a mage at the optimum level (which 99% say level 9) then which game would i naturally (with XP cap on and getting 80-90% of available XP) be in..bg1, along the sword coast somewhere, or bg2?

thanks...i think i'm ready, let the fireworks begin!!</STRONG>

With the XP cap on, you won't reach level 9 until SoA. In the event that you install and play through ToSC before moving on to BGII, you can reach level 8 with a fighter before hitting the 161,000 XP cap.

If you've got ToB (I think you mentioned it somewhere), the XP cap in SoA is raised all the way up to eight million. Taking that into consideration, it may be possible to take your kensai to an even higher level before dualling and still have enough leeway to max out a mage. My AD&D books only list experience up to level 20, so it's hard to tell. At any rate, it's probably still a good idea to go ahead and dual at level 9 so you don't get stuck playing through most of SoA with no spells.

Good luck!

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Fnord ]

[Phantom Lord]

-> Question 2)

As far as I know you can choose a kit for the inactive fighter class.

I once had a dc fighter / conjurer and imported him into SoA (the conjurer level was already higher than the fighter level at that time). The result was that I could get a kit for the fighter class but my conjurer class was reset to mage, because BG II doesn't allow a fighter / specialist wizard combination.

[Aragorn Returns]

allright guys, i have already done this, i started in bg1 with a fighter and went all the way through BG1, TotSC, BG2 and ToB. It is an extremely powerful character. But i think that there are a few problems with what you have going on. First, your profeciencies, you should put them all in blunt weapons and then in staff. this is because the best weapon a mage can use is a staff, and the staff of the magi is extremely powerful. Also, i would not dual at level nine, i would wait until level 12. your kensai will be much much more powerful in just 3 more levels, you will have more weapon profeciencies, a lower AC, a ton more hit points, and you will be able to use your kai ability more times a day. When i first started as a mage i was using mostly spells to hurt my enemies, such as magic missle, cloud kill, etc. but i soon realized that if i only used spells to protect myself and make me a better fighter i could destroy just about anything, by using combinations of stoneskin, blur, etc. and then topping it off with tenser's transformation you can make an almost completely invincible fighting machine that can take on anything. Your stats look ok, mine were much different, but it doesn't matter that much because there are so many items you can use to make them better.

[Ned Flanders]

Aragorn returns is right on. Use protection spells for your fighter mage and he/she becomes a wrecking crew. I could rehash all the points people have brought up, but what's the point. Keep your fighter class throughout BG1, don't dual until BG2.

You don't need a mage to complete BG1. try an all bruiser party. all brawn. If you must have a spell caster, try picking up one of the bards in the game.

[Phantom Lord]

Dualing later is certainly better, but I'd even wait until the fighter is at least lvl 13, because fighters get another 1/2 attack at 13 (which is the last level-related increase of attack numbers).

A good strategy to play the char after regaining fighter abilities is to cast basic protections first, to deliver some heavy attack spells and finally to switch to extreme powerful fighter (300+ HP) with Tenser's Transormation (warning, you can't cast spells while you're transformed).