Attack Bonus and Armor Class are unbalanced

[Raumoheru]

is it just me, or does attack bonus and armor class seem a little unbalanced?

from a suggestion given by Scottg, I downloaded the battle of the builds module and have been having a lot of fun with it.

but it brings something to mind, when there is uniformity with it also comes a question of whether its fair or not.

every single melee build (and even some caster builds) are one of 2 things:

fighter 12 for base attack bonus (BaB) and weapon spec, monk of at least 1 (for wisdom bonus to AC) or up to 11 for greater flurry of blows, invisible blade or duelist (for int bonus to AC), and whatever they want the last levels to go to in order to maximize damage for that characters play style, and stack every point in dexterity.

or

stack every point in strength, and use a tower shield and one handed weapon. some builds get creative and use monkey grip and a two handed weapon with a tower shield, but they are usualy only stormlord based builds that wanna use a spear. heck, even many caster builds use full plate armor and a tower shield.

here is my problem with it, ive been playing MMORPG's and in most of those systems armor reduces damage taken, not the chance to hit. tank speced classes are still hard to beat as a melee dps class, but its still possible.

with this system of being untouchable, unless you follow in strict uniform with the rest of the "power builds" you have no chance. not because they are strong builds that can beat the heck out of you (well ok some are), but because they simply are untouchable and outlast you. their damage is crap but you cant hurt them so they win.

is it really fun to play a character that takes 30 mins to kill a target? i setup a fight, went afk for about 20 mins came back and they were still at it with both uninjured. finaly when one ran out of spells the other killed him.

sorry for venting, but im not even going to try pvp in this game. ill finish truckin through MotB and call it quits after that.

[Scottg]

is it just me, or does attack bonus and armor class seem a little unbalanced?

from a suggestion given by Scottg, I downloaded the battle of the builds module and have been having a lot of fun with it.

but it brings something to mind, when there is uniformity with it also comes a question of whether its fair or not.

every single melee build (and even some caster builds) are one of 2 things:

fighter 12 for base attack bonus (BaB) and weapon spec, monk of at least 1 (for wisdom bonus to AC) or up to 11 for greater flurry of blows, invisible blade or duelist (for int bonus to AC), and whatever they want the last levels to go to in order to maximize damage for that characters play style, and stack every point in dexterity.

or

stack every point in strength, and use a tower shield and one handed weapon. some builds get creative and use monkey grip and a two handed weapon with a tower shield, but they are usualy only stormlord based builds that wanna use a spear. heck, even many caster builds use full plate armor and a tower shield.

here is my problem with it, ive been playing MMORPG's and in most of those systems armor reduces damage taken, not the chance to hit. tank speced classes are still hard to beat as a melee dps class, but its still possible.

with this system of being untouchable, unless you follow in strict uniform with the rest of the "power builds" you have no chance. not because they are strong builds that can beat the heck out of you (well ok some are), but because they simply are untouchable and outlast you. their damage is crap but you cant hurt them so they win.

is it really fun to play a character that takes 30 mins to kill a target? i setup a fight, went afk for about 20 mins came back and they were still at it with both uninjured. finaly when one ran out of spells the other killed him.

sorry for venting, but im not even going to try pvp in this game. ill finish truckin through MotB and call it quits after that.

It is fun, but it it isn't anywhere close to what modules provide.

Modules depend on 2 basic points of operation:

1. The Few against the Many, and
2 The Many against the Few.

95% of a Module is going to be #1 - where there are many more opponents that aren't as strong as you and your companions, but enough to do serious problems because of their numbers.

The other 5% are "Boss" battles and the balance is shifted in the other direction, more than what you'll find in Battle of the Builds (when compared level to level). In other words your companions may number 4+ and all perhaps at level 20.. BUT your significant opponent will be considerably HIGHER than any of your party members - perhaps an effective level 30.

For BOTH of these conditions, Higher AC is usually mandatory.

Note however that there are spells for LOWERING AC levels and even spells capable of lowering attacks (like a simple Ray of Enfeeblement). Taunt can also lower AC.

Those occasions where it *seems* like you are evenly matched (in number and level), generally are not - mostly because the AI shouldn't be as skilled as you are and the opponents aren't *built* as effectively as yours are (..and certainly not with *fully* comparable gear for each member).


Note ALSO that PVP with *real* people is a bit different, for one thing most persistent worlds have some pretty harsh rules and usually aren't level 30. Second, most are NOT single-player contests - there are usually several people and that can change the dynamic of any fight. (..and most are interested in module-type play, not party-battles.)

Battle of the Builds is more or less there to find weaknesses in a build (or build-type) by pitting it against several other different types of builds. It's also somewhat interesting and occasionally fun.. but not really what this game was designed for.