Open Ended RPG's

[arconreef]

I have played KotOR 1 & 2 several times, and am looking towards other games.

The reason I enjoyed KotOR so much was because it was so open ended. That you were in control of the decisions you made, and how the story ended.

What rpg's would you recommend for being the most open ended (any setting will do)?

[Xandax]

I must really question how you can call KOTOR 1+2 for "open ended" as they're very linear games?

But perhaps you'd like games like Morrowind and Oblivion, or Ghotic.

[Stworca]

I assume that You have already tried Baldurs Gate 2? If not, there You go

Other than that i agree on Morrowind, even tho you cannot realy alter the ending (so its not open ended), it gives so much freedom that its worth a try. You can do whatever you want

[arconreef]

I must really question how you can call KOTOR 1+2 for "open ended" as they're very linear games?

But perhaps you'd like games like Morrowind and Oblivion, or Ghotic.

Perhaps open-ended is the wrong word. What I mean is that I liked that they let you choose what you did in the game, rather than being forced to do whatever the developers decide they want them to do. Plus the ability to choose whether you wanted to be good or evil was awesome. I think another part of it was that the choices you made really mad ea difference, and affected your companions and other people around you/that you met (it would be nice to see more possible endings though)..

I have looked into games like Baldur's Gate, Fallout, and morrowind but I'm not sure if they allow the same level of choices and ability to choose how the game played out.

As for Oblivion, I've tried it, but it feels like it's missing the epic storytelling that I'm used to in KotOR. It had a very open world, but it seemed like so many things were hack and slash action oriented. I like the strategic approach of controlling people in an rts type of way that was in KotOR. Because it felt like a movie. But perhaps I am wrong, as I didn't get very far into it. Unless Oblivions ending was as terrible and KotOR 2's beginning.

What I'm looking for in an rpg is basically a book or movie where you choose what happens, taking big risks and decisions upon yourself that seriously affect the game.

[fable]

Perhaps open-ended is the wrong word. What I mean is that I liked that they let you choose what you did in the game, rather than being forced to do whatever the developers decide they want them to do.

I'm with Xandax on this one. The KotoR games were extremely linear. They forced you to select from one of three or four planets, where you had a very few quests, and a very few places you could go. Compare that to, say, Baldur's Gate II, where though it's linear, you're suddenly being handled a ton of quests early on with many different possible destinations; or Morrowind and Oblivion, that literally include 100+ side quests each that you can acquire anytime, ignoring the main quest line and just doing anything you want--including lots of additional activities that are non-quest-related.

[arconreef]

I'm with Xandax on this one. The KotoR games were extremely linear. They forced you to select from one of three or four planets, where you had a very few quests, and a very few places you could go. Compare that to, say, Baldur's Gate II, where though it's linear, you're suddenly being handled a ton of quests early on with many different possible destinations; or Morrowind and Oblivion, that literally include 100+ side quests each that you can acquire anytime, ignoring the main quest line and just doing anything you want--including lots of additional activities that are non-quest-related.

But all those little side quests aren't very epic or immersing are they? - I'm willing to sacrifice content if it has a world and story as immersing and involving as KotOR. (in my opinion) The writing and voice acting in KotOR was on par with movies.

But what I value most in KotOR, again, is that you aren't a spectator in the game. You are frequently charged with important, meaningful decisions, that decide the fate of the people you meet, as well as what happens to your allies and friends. For me side quests feel like a bunch of random mini-stories that fill up a hole that should be filled with content in the main storyline. The main storyline should also be so good enough that you shouldn't even want to do the side quests (which is how I felt about KotOR). Rather than skills and abilities, the storytelling is most important to me.

My least favourite part of KotOR in particular for me was spending 5 hours of the 30 hour game leveling up the characters (though I'm not saying it was boring, just a little to repetitive).

From what you're saying It seems to me like you play rpg's for the exploring of open worlds, and the skills and abilities.

But I play rpg's for the experience of getting so involved in the story that you feel like you really ARE someone else in a REAL world with REAL people. and no book or movie can do it as well as rpg's have the potential to, because of the ability to influence what your character does and says.

are there any other rpg's like that?

I expect there are quite a few errors in this post, but unfortunately I haven't the time to correct them (gomen) .

[fable]

But all those little side quests aren't very epic or immersing are they?

Yes, they are; many aren't little, at all. Working your way up the Mage Guild quest ladder is very memorable, and there are several quest lines involving Redoran, the Fighters Guild, Telvanni, etc--all in Morrowind--that stand out for each and every quest. Not to mention strange side quests, like the naked Nord, etc.

I'm willing to sacrifice content if it has a world and story as immersing and involving as KotOR. (in my opinion) The writing and voice acting in KotOR was on par with movies.

But what I value most in KotOR, again, is that you aren't a spectator in the game. You are frequently charged with important, meaningful decisions, that decide the fate of the people you meet, as well as what happens to your allies and friends.

But you only have one or two decisions at any time, and most times your decisions don't really affect anybody except an individual or two. Steal every family blind whose apartment you find in KotoR? Very virtuous; and it does nothing to your standing--extremely anti-immersive. If you really want to have an immersive impact on a game as you play, try Gothic I or II. Whereas in the KotoR games, if you succeed on a planet in its main quest (which you must do to move forward) the results lead to only one of two possible conclusions that don't affect you more than in terms of your associates, in Gothic II the decisions you make--whether to help X or Y, and whether to help now, or later, or not help at all--will result in five separate conclusions that will reverberate down the line as you find subsequent people who are friends/enemies of X or Y, or know of them, or are economically impacted by whatever you did (or didn't). The decision model for the Gothic games was a lot more sophisticated than for KotoR I/II--and while I fully understand your excitement with the title, it really is very limited in terms of personal decision-making having far reaching and detailed consequences.

For me side quests feel like a bunch of random mini-stories that fill up a hole that should be filled with content in the main storyline. The main storyline should also be so good enough that you shouldn't even want to do the side quests (which is how I felt about KotOR). Rather than skills and abilities, the storytelling is most important to me.

You should check out Planescape: Torment. Best storytelling in an RPG, bar none.

From what you're saying It seems like you play rpg's for the exploring of open worlds, and the skills and abilities.

No. For the exploration, for the personalities of the NPCs, for the ability to do whatever I want, and where my major decisions will have subtle and not-so-subtle impacts on a range of issues. I really want the world to feel real. And I have been playing computer RPGs since 1978. Doesn't mean a thing, except that I've played quite a few.

I would suggest you try some of these other titles we mention. Just to see what we're talking about.

But I play rpg's for the experience of getting so...

Please don't set me up as a straw man.

[arconreef]

Which Morrowind game should I get?

obviousely I would not like to start with the ones from the 90's... Even if it is an awesome game, it would be very hard to get past the extremely dated graphics. But anything that doesn't look like it came out of a time capsule would be fine...

Also, what is your opinion on the old Fallout games, as well as Icewind Dale?

What about Baldur's Gate?

How open and involving are they?

[fable]

Which Morrowind game should I get?

obviousely I would not like to start with the ones from the 90's... Even if it is an awesome game, it would be very hard to get past the extremely dated graphics. But anything that doesn't look like it came out of a time capsule would be fine...

Also, what is your opinion on the old Fallout games, as well as Icewind Dale?

What about Baldur's Gate?

How open and involving are they?

I would suggest the following:

Gothic II if you want to see just how anything you do in a game involving other NPCs can and will affect future courses of action. (Numerous improvements over Gothic I. Gothic III was buggy as hell, even at the end.)

Planescape: Torment for storytelling. It is an amazing game in that respect. Arguably in several, but most players will at least give it this.

If you don't like Morrowind's graphics (and there's a project under way, LGNPC, that customizes and provides great detail to each of the NPCs in each village, town, and city), Oblivion is a wide-open game, but has pallid NPCs, far too much hand-holding, dumbed down quests, and over-enthusiastic enemy and treasure scaling. It's very playable with plenty of mods, but that's time consuming. I wouldn't recommend it, given your desire for immersion.

Baldur's Gate II has some interesting party NPCs, and is more open-ended than DA:O in the earlier chapters. Well worth a gameplay. Considerably less cliched, too, in my opinion.

The Fallout games (and Arcanum) have far too many instances of quests given to you that shouldn't be, simply because you're the game's Hero. Great stuff to play--especially the Fallout ones; Arcanum has awful combat--but it just falls apart on believability when you, as a weak new arrival, somehow get everybody to confide in you about exactly what they want, and expect you to get it for them.

The IWD games are strategy titles, with RPG clothing.

Age of Decadence is probably the best thing on the horizon, and will hopefully be here, this year. Extremely detailed reactions to a huge range of competing factions and people within those factions, so your character has, again, a great effect on what's going on. You can check out its forum on the Web. Pretty exciting.

[arconreef]

I think I will either try to get Fallout or Baldur's Gate (whichever one is cheaper :laugh .

Since it looks like there aren't any rpg's that offer anything similar to KotOR except maybe the upcoming mmo TOR, I have decided to widen my search area, and the game that most stood out to me was Neverwinter Nights. What do you think of it (other than that it isn't open)?

[fable]

I think I will either try to get Fallout or Baldur's Gate (whichever one is cheaper :laugh .

My suggestion remains PS:T as the one that most meets your requirements, but of course, you should do as you want.

[Bloodstalker]

I definately go along with the suggestion of Planescape: Torment. I'm not really all that fond of Morrowind personally, but it does have a lot to offer in the way of the world simply being wide open. It plays much better with mods though.

a couple games that I also really enjoyed were Witcher and Vampire: The Masquerade- Bloodlines. I am assuming that you enjoyed the way Knights allowed you to have a difference between the Dark Side/Light Side endings. Witcher is somewhat similar in that there are a few choices you make that will influence how the end of the game plays out. Bloodlines is one of the most atmospheric games I can recall playing. Especially in the first half of the game it really captured the whole vampire feel. Combat can be kind of clunky, and there are issues with bugs out of the box, but there are fixes for a lot of that available.

If you really liked Knights, I'd recommend Mass Effect as well. You will feel right at home playing the game from a control/engine standpoint. You also have the ability to make decisions to affect how the game ends. I enjoyed the game, and to be honest, it's about the closest thing I can think of to Knights as far as style and play goes. Although the combat is more FPS oriented. Decisions you make to affect the end of the game are also supposed to affect how things play out to a certain extent in the sequal I think, but how well that works out and to what extent remains to be seen.

[Stworca]

Oh! I almost forgot. Try Temple of Elemental Evil! Its -THE- open ended RPG. Sadly its very short, but you can resolve everything in many differend ways, and can get multiple differend endings

As for Neverwinter Nights 2. Aside from Storm of Zehir expansion i cannot recommend this game if you want to have much to say in the storyline. Its linear to the point where its painfull

[Kree]

I've always felt Arcanum offered me my favourite 'open world' experience. It wasn't totally open (Forced into the bottom half of the map until you go through some caves) and there are a few places you obviously just HAVE to go, but it is never stringent time wise. Not to mention you can just walk around the map aimlessly.

The ending had a multitude of 'results' based on what you did in the game. Whether you end up good or evil, help a cartain place, then you are told how that city is now thriving, or saved a clan, whatever. Plus its one of the few games where combat for your individual character was almost entirely avoidable (Charisma and persuasion, talk your way out of lots of battles, for the ones you can't, by having such a high charisma you can get 3-4 followers who do the combat for you).

A lot of people hated the combat, I never thought it was that bad. real time cobat is just one big cluster****, fully turn-based is too slow, and part-turn based isn't too great either.

And you can be technology-focussed or magic-focussed. If you are too far a magic follower, you can use healing potions, instead having to use healing salves, and vice-versa.

If you can handle the bugs/combat, may be what you're looking for.

[fable]

A lot of people hated the combat, I never thought it was that bad. real time cobat is just one big cluster****, fully turn-based is too slow, and part-turn based isn't too great either.

The problem with Arcanum's combat wasn't whether it was in real time, turn-based, or pause-time, but that it allowed you no direct control over your party members. They attacked, and you hoped they choose the enemy you wanted and would do whatever you wanted. I always thought (and still do) that this was to hobble the player because the combat AI used by enemies was so incredibly bad.

[kntrl]

your not gonna find that many storylines that are as epic as kotors. i think the dark brotherhood quests in oblivion are pretty good. I liked jade empire alot. was bioware fanboy till mass effect 2 and dragon age. Morrowind is epic and has a great story. yet to be able to get planescape to work in vista so im really bummed about that. id go with black isle and the fallout series. you dont get more rpg than fallout 1. which in my opinion is the best one in the series