...and potentially leaving the entire Chinese market, perhaps. It stems from some e-attacks against some of Google's infrastructure, and from the fact that many Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists were targeted. In response, Google is now removing the censorship on its google.cn search engine. The end result is probably going to be Google leaving the Chinese market entirely, which makes little business sense.
They're essentially framing it as a moral stance, which will undoubtedly play well to the rest of the world that doesn't look too kindly on the Chinese government. It won't really have a huge impact, as the chance of other companies following suit is close to zilch, but it's still a pretty big news story.
[url="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/google-threatens-to-pull-out-of-china/article1428876/"]What Happened[/url]
[url="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/googles-defiance-in-china-gaining-support/article1430253/"]Gaining Support in the West[/url]
[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34840931/ns/business-world_business/"]It won't be a trend[/url]
[url="http://www.slate.com/id/2241116/"]And a comparison between this and the NBC-Leno-Conan debacle[/url]
Google stopping censorship in China
Google stopping censorship in China
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.
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fable
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It's about as easy for Google to claim a moral stance now over censorship in China as it would be for a hooker to claim they were too pure to perform after making their first million. The time for Google to take the high road was when the Chinese government told them: censor or you don't get in. They chose to go in, and have been there for some time.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
I agree with Fable. Google has dirty hands and now they're trying to wash them after a long time.
And the recent "bugs" in Google - the so called "Islam is...." search suggestions have indeed only pushed me closer to the "Google can't be trusted" path.
It was even a mention in my last blog post on my website
And the recent "bugs" in Google - the so called "Islam is...." search suggestions have indeed only pushed me closer to the "Google can't be trusted" path.
It was even a mention in my last blog post on my website
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Well, on the one hand, Google makes excellent products. Google, Googledocs, GoogleMail...all excellent.
On the other hand, they are one of thousands of companies seeking the next generation of profits from the only apparent, emerging economies in the world (Indo-China). You'll never catch me defending the corporation, as an entity. But they are just doing what they do.
I support the 'enough is enough' stance. They might break some ground here. The Chinese government is arrogant. Anyone willing to kick them in the balls is alright by me. Now let's see what the shareholders think.
On the other hand, they are one of thousands of companies seeking the next generation of profits from the only apparent, emerging economies in the world (Indo-China). You'll never catch me defending the corporation, as an entity. But they are just doing what they do.
I support the 'enough is enough' stance. They might break some ground here. The Chinese government is arrogant. Anyone willing to kick them in the balls is alright by me. Now let's see what the shareholders think.
Spokesman for the Play with Cernd Foundation.
Author of such notable threads as 'Chicken in the Fridge'
Author of such notable threads as 'Chicken in the Fridge'
Well put. Too little, too late. It makes you wonder...what's behind it? Pressure from government?fable wrote:It's about as easy for Google to claim a moral stance now over censorship in China as it would be for a hooker to claim they were too pure to perform after making their first million. The time for Google to take the high road was when the Chinese government told them: censor or you don't get in. They chose to go in, and have been there for some time.
CYNIC, n.:
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
Still, better late than never. There were a lot of voices around here criticizing Google because of the impact that might have on other companies. If an important player like Google has no guts to stand up to chinese government, the smaller companies might not even consider to try. And now they can wait and observe, at least they will get some data.
Coming form a country with relatively recent case of an oppressive, censorship-heavy government i can tell you that the most important thing is that cracks like that appear. Whether it's because of someone's fight for freedom or someone else's greed is a secondary consideration. The most important thing is that it actually happens.
Coming form a country with relatively recent case of an oppressive, censorship-heavy government i can tell you that the most important thing is that cracks like that appear. Whether it's because of someone's fight for freedom or someone else's greed is a secondary consideration. The most important thing is that it actually happens.
Kitchen Witchcraft : Of Magic and Macaroni - a blog about, well, a witch in the kitchen.
The Pale Mansion : My e-published lovecraftian novella! You should totally check it out!
The Pale Mansion : My e-published lovecraftian novella! You should totally check it out!
Even so, you can't deny that Google got themselves into this mess in the first place when they decided to set up shop in China. I recall reading from some article a few years ago that Eric Schmidt (CEO of Google) himself said that while he acknowledge the strict censorship in China, he still believes that there is a huge potential by investing there, revenue-wise. Don't know if that article was published in a tech site or it was something I read in TIME Magazine or other publications.QuenGalad wrote:Whether it's because of someone's fight for freedom or someone else's greed is a secondary consideration. The most important thing is that it actually happens.
This is where I agree with Fable. They could've maintained a good public image if they did not go into China but since they threw themselves into this quagmire by doing so, sooner or later they will have to dig themselves out of it. And it will take a while.
''They say truth is the first casualty of war. But who defines what's true? Truth is just a matter of perspective. The duty of every soldier is to protect the innocent, and sometimes that means preserving the lie of good and evil, that war isn't just natural selection played out on a grand scale. The only truth I found is that the world we live in is a giant tinderbox. All it takes...is someone to light the match" - Captain Price
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Vicsun
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They were never in a mess. Yahoo and Bing still operate search engines in China. Google's operations in China probably didn't hurt their bottom line, so saying they were in a 'quagmire' is misleading - operating in China is profitable. I'd also like to see a link from a reputable magazine (TIME counts, and so do most tech sites), of Eric Schmidt acknowledging the censorship as bad, but stating he's unwilling to do anything about it because it'd hurt revenue. It's a pretty bad statement to make, PR wise, and Schmidt isn't dumb. The official line has always been that, even with censorship, providing yet another competitor to the official search engine (that would be Baidu), is only good for the free flow of information. Personally, I think the argument holds water, too. An image search on google.cn for "Tiananmen Square" censors the infamous "man versus tank" photo, but still shows this as the first hit. Here's the equivalent search on Baidu for comparison. All beautiful and orderly.DesR85 wrote:Even so, you can't deny that Google got themselves into this mess in the first place when they decided to set up shop in China. I recall reading from some article a few years ago that Eric Schmidt (CEO of Google) himself said that while he acknowledge the strict censorship in China, he still believes that there is a huge potential by investing there, revenue-wise. Don't know if that article was published in a tech site or it was something I read in TIME Magazine or other publications.
This is where I agree with Fable. They could've maintained a good public image if they did not go into China but since they threw themselves into this quagmire by doing so, sooner or later they will have to dig themselves out of it. And it will take a while.
How often do major companies abandon a profitable business for moral reasons without serious pressure? I'm a little saddened by the overwhelming cynicism, and the general too-little-too-late choir. A corporation does something good, and is criticized for not doing it sooner.
edit: I guess it might be interesting to note that GOOG stock dropped after the announcement to pull out of China.
edit: of more potential interest:
tank man tiananmen - google china
tank man tiananmen - baidu
tiananmen square protest - google china
tiananmen square protest - google.com
tiannamen square protest - baidu
Clearly there's some censorship, but it's not particularly good, at least compared to Baidu.
Vicsun, I certainly agree with your assertion that you are an unpleasant person. ~Chanak
Providing a service on a market and claming that bowing to the censorship is actually helping somebody other then the company itself is a nice thought, but from what we've seen over the years, it is not an actual effect. It sounded hollow when they said it the first time - especially when coupled with their "Do no evil" mantra - and it sounds hollow today.
The chinease who use proxies to circumvent the filters would use .com anyway regardless of the .cn, simply because .cn is censored as well.
But Google providing censorship in a censored market does nothing for the "free flow", at least not what can be seen so far.
Providing a censored alternative to a censored product does not do much for the "free flow".
And it wasn't even censorship which is the cause of Google wanting to move out of China - but the cyberattack against their services, then the censorship seems rather irrelevant to Google entirely. GMail have even been hacked before, and the information used to persecute system critics.
We also know that Google is censoring in Germany, so being against censoring is not a Google mantra. And the "Islam is" bug does not seem fixed yet either.
Google takes a stance of moral ground - or tires to - but actual events show they do not live up to them. Thus it does seem like - too little too late.
I can fully understand the economical arguments. Companies around the world have done questionable business for hundreds of years to turn a profit. But trying to take a moral stance after giving up that moral stance, well ....
Where this can get really interesting is if multiple companies pull out of China, or a trade war actually becomes a reality and then it is an interesting view to see how many will suffer and who will "win" that one.
But well - it remains to be seen whether Google actually pulls out entirely and doesn't go back, or whether some sort of pseudo-compromize can be found, so Google can return to China with censored results.
The chinease who use proxies to circumvent the filters would use .com anyway regardless of the .cn, simply because .cn is censored as well.
But Google providing censorship in a censored market does nothing for the "free flow", at least not what can be seen so far.
Providing a censored alternative to a censored product does not do much for the "free flow".
And it wasn't even censorship which is the cause of Google wanting to move out of China - but the cyberattack against their services, then the censorship seems rather irrelevant to Google entirely. GMail have even been hacked before, and the information used to persecute system critics.
We also know that Google is censoring in Germany, so being against censoring is not a Google mantra. And the "Islam is" bug does not seem fixed yet either.
Google takes a stance of moral ground - or tires to - but actual events show they do not live up to them. Thus it does seem like - too little too late.
I can fully understand the economical arguments. Companies around the world have done questionable business for hundreds of years to turn a profit. But trying to take a moral stance after giving up that moral stance, well ....
Where this can get really interesting is if multiple companies pull out of China, or a trade war actually becomes a reality and then it is an interesting view to see how many will suffer and who will "win" that one.
But well - it remains to be seen whether Google actually pulls out entirely and doesn't go back, or whether some sort of pseudo-compromize can be found, so Google can return to China with censored results.
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NarutoAngel221
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I think Chinese wont mind if Google would be lost in China as well considering that there economy is blooming right now and more jobs are in stored for Chinese and considering that Chinese used Baidu more than Google . But I am glad that they have sort this problem out already
Naruto Forever. Can't wait for a Naruto MMORPG