Will there ever be a game like it?

AGustofWind · Post by **AGustofWind** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:34 pm

In a way I feel fortunate and unfortunate to have played Bloodlines. Fortunate because it is an amazing game with incredible writing and atmosphere (and a highly replayable game). Unfortunate because I'm not sure if there'll ever be a product like it. Anyone else feel the same?

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:45 am

I can only agree, this is definitely the best game atmosphere - wise that I know of.

Dunno about replayability, really. I always end up playing Toreador. For they get three really good Disciplines. Celerity rocks anyway, Presence is even better as long as the opponent is close enough, combined they are absolutely devastating and transform even the hardest opponents into cakewalks, and Auspex is great for ranged, hacking, and finding things and opponents in dungeons.

Rulesystem is rather unexciting. Still it doesnt suck. Thats better than others.

AGustofWind · Post by **AGustofWind** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:27 am

There's replayability as clans have some different disciplines. Also, conversation skills (intimidate, persuation, seduction) low humanity/high humanity influene dialogue as well.

Then, there's the multitude of endings.

Shizz · Post by **Shizz** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:15 pm

Besides, Nossies and Malks just offer quite.... unique perspectives to the game world. I did my first playthrough as a Malk, and in comparison the other clans seemed horribly boring at first.

Addressing the topic, though: Probably not, and I think this is a very good thing. Brilliant things suffer when xeroxed; and time can be spent better by making new great things instead of copying old ones.

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:42 am

Well, I strongly recomment against Malk for first walkthrough, because its often really hard to find out what the hell is going on in the dialogues.

And Nosferatu is even funnier in dialogues than Malk, IMHO. Plus you still can understand the dialogues.

I hate they get one discipline (Potence) which is nothing but outright rubbish, though. Thats also one of the reasons why I hate playing Brujah, too. At least Brujah gets two other really great disciplines, though.

And I dont like sneaking around all the damn time. IMHO Nos should get their invisibility for free or something, so playing them wouldnt be so slow.

vio · Post by **vio** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:25 am

I've enjoyed many RPGs over the years but Bloodlines really stands out as something special
as for replayability, as has been mentioned playing as a Malkavian or Nosferatu makes a huge change to any of the other clans, and while neither is a good choice for a first playthrough (partly because it's harder to learn to play the game with their respective limitations and also because Malk dialogue contains some pretty major spoilers some of which aren't quite as subtle as others) everyone who enjoys the game should make sure to complete it as both clans and at least one other. that alone makes it more replayable than most games, even RPGs (which tend to be more replayable than most other genres)

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:07 pm

I don't think that there will ever be, quite, a game such as Bloodlines. A few come kind of close. Such as Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights (both 1 and 2), and KOTOR/TSL. But none are Bloodlines.

Merlanni · Post by **Merlanni** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:22 pm

I finished the game 3 times. Toreador, Malkavian, Tremere.

The malkavian was best

AGustofWind · Post by **AGustofWind** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:34 pm

I just fervently hope that, eventually, a game comes out that matches VTMB in presentation values (VA/Facial exp variety/writing), and atmosphere.

vio · Post by **vio** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:47 pm

AGustofWind wrote:I just fervently hope that, eventually, a game comes out that matches VTMB in presentation values (VA/Facial exp variety/writing), and atmosphere.

it makes you wonder what could have happened if the developers hadn't gone bankrupt. maybe right now we'd be playing one of the many sequels and wondering how the rumoured movie will turn out. or maybe we'd be bitterly complaining that it's just not as good as Bloodlines was and it's all the fault of those damned console-kiddies/casual gamers or the publishers/parent company rushing them with unreasonable deadlines

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:26 pm

Um, there wouldnt be another VtM game, no matter what. They already published the successor VtR back then. Bloodlines itself got only published because Troika insisted.

The successor rulesystem "Vampire: The Requiem" is very different: no more Caine, no more Generations, and everything else got changed, too. For example, there is no longer anything like the Camerilla or the Sabbat around.

P.s.: Though to be honest, VtR sounds much more fun than VtM.

AGustofWind · Post by **AGustofWind** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:18 pm

^^Wouldn't matter to me if it was VtR. As long as they constructed the world with depth and authenticity/creativity, I couldn't care less.

noiz · Post by **noiz** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:43 pm

And we can't thank them enough for pushing the game out on the market.

Buggy as it is, I'm both puzzled and not surprised as to why there's such a mind-boggling amount of bugs in the game.

I'm puzzled because - Troika is comprised of mostly people who did Fallout. No comments needed on that game, lord knows what black magic was used to make the game so damn intuitive and open-minded, non-linear and complex.

I'm not surprised because - 3D isn't 2D. I'm no programmer, let alone game-dev but I'm sure the rules vary quite a bit, and to top it off, it's Source.
Those 2 things were more or less new to the folks over at Troika I guess.

All in all, a great rpg, it's not Deus Ex nor is it Fallout 1/2, but it rocks, and I rank it pretty high up when it comes to these types of rpg's.

Also, there's a slim to no chance that game(s) like this/these will ever come out again. People got really casual and lowered their standards, and the gaming industry couldn't be happier with it. It's all a big buisness nowadays, only a handful of studios still genuinely love making games, and even among them, only a small fraction has their hands untied.
Damn you, capitalism, damn you..

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:32 am

Um, do you use the Fanpatch ?

It fixes a lot of things.

Not everything, of course. Some things are in the engine itself, and short of reprogramming it, there is no way to fix it.

vio · Post by **vio** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:42 pm

from what I've heard about the company's status during late development (not sure if it's true but there was something about them practically working for free because they'd already gone bankrupt but were determined to finish the game and get it out the door despite that) I'm more amazed that the game even made it into shops yet alone in a playable state. and while it IS buggy, it's actually far more playable (even in a completely unpatched state) than many recent games from better funded developers

Wesp5 · Post by **Wesp5** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:34 pm

Also you shouldn't forget that Troika was working with an alpha version of the Source engine which Valve kept updating thus they always had to stay with the changes.

noiz · Post by **noiz** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:50 pm

@Tenser: yeah, as the past week was my first time grabbing the game and playing it, so I never got to play the unpatched one. However, having seen the ridiculously extensive patch history up from 0 to 7.1... I can only imagine what was going on in the original.

@vio So I've read, and as I said, I'm much obliged to them for pulling it off, those folks really had a rough career and still managed to do wonders. I'm not gonna get into talking about the quadruple A megatitles nowadays. Played smoother, more polished, fun demos 10 years ago, I'm really disappointed at how easy cash manages to destroy things, be it millions or cents.

@Wesp5's patch, that is. And the bastard had me chasing that Revolt pull toy for hours

... The location even resembles one of Revolt's racetracks :laugh: Seriously now, lovin it, any new content is very much welcome, bugfixes and workarounds as well. Troika really got caught up in the wrong era of making games, when the pressure of creating titles started rushing in, attacking with general-use engines, and an active alpha on top of it. Didn't forget that one because I wasn't aware of it until you've informed me. Thanks for the heads up, this further increases my respect for the people.

Play. Obey.

vio · Post by **vio** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:41 pm

while it doesn't beat Bloodlines, I've heard Alpha Protocol be called a spiritual successor (gameplay-wise not story-wise), and I'm inclined to agree. as an added bonus there's even one character who perfectly embodies everything we know and love of the Malkavians

noiz · Post by **noiz** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:27 pm

Didn't know that, I knew about the game but wrote it off as a clone.
I'm gonna give it a run, thanks.

Tenser · Post by **Tenser** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:37 am

vio wrote:while it doesn't beat Bloodlines, I've heard Alpha Protocol be called a spiritual successor (gameplay-wise not story-wise), and I'm inclined to agree. as an added bonus there's even one character who perfectly embodies everything we know and love of the Malkavians

Not only gameplay, but also bugs, or at least thats what I heard about it.