tutu minsc dead

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:22 pm

Minsc attacked me when I didn't want to rescue dynaheir. Now that he is dead will he come back for SToA? I guess I can get the xp bonus of smaller party if he doesn't

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:53 pm

He'll be alive again once you reach SoA.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:28 am

He'll still be there, one of the weaknesses f BG2 is that it takes no account of what happened in BG1. Evidently reading the game save and setting up BG2 accordingly was too difficult for them, or more likely, they couldn't be bothered.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:06 am

galraen wrote:He'll still be there, one of the weaknesses f BG2 is that it takes no account of what happened in BG1. Evidently reading the game save and setting up BG2 accordingly was too difficult for them, or more likely, they couldn't be bothered.

It wouldn't be easy with IE engine, too many variables (and they didn't plan on doing a sequel right away.. you know?)
Still, BG2 at least gives you the option to say "But you've died!" or "I exiled you" or whatever else. Unlike tons of other games, which don't even give you the illusion of having your choices matter.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:21 am

Have to disagree; how difficult would it have been to check on the end of game party composition and who had died? As for story/quest lines in BG2, most of them, if not all, could have been geared to alternative characters from BG1, it would have taken just a little fore thought and planning, not too much to ask for surely?

What quest are carried over from BG1?

Jaheira would have been the most difficult, but could have been substituted for by nearly all the female NPCs in BG1. Likewise Imoen.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:23 am

Well if you mean just the alive/dead then sure, it's not much to ask. Then again i'll have to be the advocate now, and point out that when making BG1 They couldn't have planned BG2, thus any cross-game porting system is highly limited to the Inn-BG1 one (which only handled .CHA and .BIO)

It's not like ME, where devs know from the day 0 that there will be two sequels

Although i admit, it's a shame. BG2 would be much better with a plot-port system.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:50 am

I guess this is more pertinent for me at the moment as I'm plannning yet another run through (downloading BG2 from GOG to my netbook as I speak as I was dumb enough to leave my external DVD Drive in London

).

I'm going to install Tutu and have a Half Orc Cleric/Assassin with evil intentions (yep I'm gonna cheat!

), so trying to figure out the best NPCs to pick up.

I'm not sure about using the party happy mod, but may well do so, if I do then it's likely to be

Minsc (I consider him to be evil despite all his 'Butt kicking for goodness' BS)
Jaheira (her hubby is going to meet an unfortunate fate at the hands of Drizzt:laugh

Branwen (I like the Branwen NPC mod for BG2)
Korgan (can't remember what he's called in BG1, but so obviously the same character)

No Mage, s should be more of a challenge.

If I don't use the party happy mod, then sub Imoen for Jaheira and just have a five person party.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:08 pm

galraen wrote:Have to disagree; how difficult would it have been to check on the end of game party composition and who had died? As for story/quest lines in BG2, most of them, if not all, could have been geared to alternative characters from BG1, it would have taken just a little fore thought and planning, not too much to ask for surely?

What quest are carried over from BG1?

Jaheira would have been the most difficult, but could have been substituted for by nearly all the female NPCs in BG1. Likewise Imoen.

it's not impossible to run "death checks" *but* you then run into either lacking certain archtypes to start bg2, or the designers have to then write all sorts of alternate scripts, dialogue, plots etc.

right there if you minus out jaheria & immy you are then eliminating or completely revamping a romance and the primary motivations for most of the early chapters of bg2...

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:50 pm

koz-ivan wrote:it's not impossible to run "death checks" *but* you then run into either lacking certain archtypes to start bg2, or the designers have to then write all sorts of alternate scripts, dialogue, plots etc.

right there if you minus out jaheria & immy you are then eliminating or completely revamping a romance and the primary motivations for most of the early chapters of bg2...

Replacing Jaheira with say Branwen would only have really needed a name change, any NPC from BG1 could have replaced Imoen. It really isn't that difficult to change a few names and make the odd tweak. All that was needed was the will to do it, unfortunately that will wasn't there, which lead to a shoddy start to BG2 which was completely unnecessary.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:41 pm

galraen wrote:Replacing Jaheira with say Branwen would only have really needed a name change, any NPC from BG1 could have replaced Imoen. It really isn't that difficult to change a few names and make the odd tweak. All that was needed was the will to do it, unfortunately that will wasn't there, which lead to a shoddy start to BG2 which was completely unnecessary.

have to disagree, branwen wouldn't have made any sense in the harper plot, beyond that *all* of her dialogue would have to be re-written, and the druid grove could only then be completed by a pc druid or cernd.

at that level of effort it would have made more sense for the developers to script every bg1 npc, or made the npc's far less than they were in bg2.

plus we're talking about a magical world where raise dead is fairly common, so dead does not really have to equate to dead.

imoen is special in that she and the main pc have a common bond, she's your only companion that shares backstory w/ the pc at the very start of the series.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:54 pm

Anyone can be a Harper, they are a secret society, so there would be no need for anyone to know in BG1 who was or who wasn't, apart from blabbermouth Jaheira.

Also any of the NPCs could have been a child of Bhaal, and more to the point, there is no possibility to raise a child of Bhaal from the dead, so when Imoen dies in BG1 that's it, her game's over. To miraculously bring her back in BG2 is to undermine their own plot.

The starting cast of BG2 is a botched job, no point in trying to deny it. Overall the game still is one of the best, but the starting point was botched.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:10 pm

galraen wrote:Anyone can be a Harper, they are a secret society, so there would be no need for anyone to know in BG1 who was or who wasn't, apart from blabbermouth Jaheira.

meh, tastes differ but imho this would have given one of the few bg2 npc's a real "biff the understudy" kind of feel to them, and would have been far worse then the "problem" of a suddenly alive jaheria. minsc is more replaceable as any basic warrior will fill his role - but then all his interactions are totally out of place on any other npc. there is the simple matter of kahalid as well.

Also any of the NPCs could have been a child of Bhaal, and more to the point, there is no possibility to raise a child of Bhaal from the dead, so when Imoen dies in BG1 that's it, her game's over. To miraculously bring her back in BG2 is to undermine their own plot.

the big s makes it back...

The starting cast of BG2 is a botched job, no point in trying to deny it. Overall the game still is one of the best, but the starting point was botched.

we'll just have to agree to disagree on that score, the starting cast for bg2 is near perfect - every npc is there for a reason. mage, thief, healer, warrior. covers all basic party needs regardless of what the pc is.

and everyone in that dungeon has their own axe to grind with irenicus, works perfectly.

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:21 pm

koz-ivan wrote: we'll just have to agree to disagree on that score, the starting cast for bg2 is near perfect - every npc is there for a reason. mage, thief, healer, warrior. covers all basic party needs regardless of what the pc is.

and everyone in that dungeon has their own axe to grind with irenicus, works perfectly.

That's only because that's how it was written. It's neither not dynamic nor intelligent storywise.