I always liked playing bard. Just reinstalled the game with all the expansions. Plan on playing OC + MoTB with this new character.
I want an interesting build that offers some uniqueness without giving up too much of what makes the bard awesome for me. I'm planning for him to mostly be a party support kind of guy. Hand in the back, sing and inspire the party, cast some spells and shoot a good bow or crossbow when nothing else is left.
I should mention I also have Kaedrin's Class Pack installed.
Any suggestion for a good build would be great.
Suggestion for a fun Bard build
I ran a Bard in the OC and MotB. She was a meleebard, though. Human Bard 29/Ftr 1, with the Ftr lvl being taken quite early. I used Song of the Heart from Kaedrin's, and Rythmic Dancer or something? Snowflake Wardancer? It gave a clean +2 to hit for a Bard. Inspire Courage all the way. Curse Song too, and the occasional "Super"song like Epic of the Lost King and Legionnaire's March. Not sure about the names, though. She had Battlecaster so that Medium Armour/Mithril Fullplate was available. Power Attack was a must, with twohanders. Practised Spellcaster might or might not be your thing.
For spells, I focused on the selfbuffers, like Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Haste,...
For stats, I focused on STR, with enough CHA for lvl 6 spells. Pick the spell that improved Inspire Courage. I had 14 INT too.
If you want to go ranged, I'd focus on DEX instead of STR (duh). Since increasing ranged damage is harder, I'd consider Ftr 4 (for Wpn Spec Longbow & Ranged Wpn Mastery (But I think Kaedrin needs Ftr 6 for that)), and take Practised Spellcaster (Bard) to make up for it.
I mainly used [url="http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/922154-neverwinter-nights-2/faqs/46584"]this guide[/url].
For spells, I focused on the selfbuffers, like Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Haste,...
For stats, I focused on STR, with enough CHA for lvl 6 spells. Pick the spell that improved Inspire Courage. I had 14 INT too.
If you want to go ranged, I'd focus on DEX instead of STR (duh). Since increasing ranged damage is harder, I'd consider Ftr 4 (for Wpn Spec Longbow & Ranged Wpn Mastery (But I think Kaedrin needs Ftr 6 for that)), and take Practised Spellcaster (Bard) to make up for it.
I mainly used [url="http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/922154-neverwinter-nights-2/faqs/46584"]this guide[/url].
I read that guide. Was not a big fan of it, since the guy seems to favor melee bards heavily in all his builds. I did like his idea of Bard/BG combo, but I'm not a big fan of being evil in this game.
I was thinking maybe going with 3 levels of ranger, and getting favored enemy: undead, combat style archery, and toughness.
I chose the star elf race from Khaedrin's pack since it has bard as favored class so don't have to worry about xp penalty.
But Khaedrin's pack has quiet a few prestige classes made for bards, cruisous to see how they stack up.
I was looking at Stormsinger class for example. Thinking of maybe going 20 Bard/10 Stormsinger.
Dissonent Cord also sounds very impressive against spell casters.
I was thinking maybe going with 3 levels of ranger, and getting favored enemy: undead, combat style archery, and toughness.
I chose the star elf race from Khaedrin's pack since it has bard as favored class so don't have to worry about xp penalty.
But Khaedrin's pack has quiet a few prestige classes made for bards, cruisous to see how they stack up.
I was looking at Stormsinger class for example. Thinking of maybe going 20 Bard/10 Stormsinger.
Dissonent Cord also sounds very impressive against spell casters.
I'd be careful about multiclassing into Ranger: You're only winning two feats, and Favoured Enemy isn't all that great.
As for other PrC's: be careful to keep your BAB high enough if you want to shoot a bow.
If you're willing to play with the console, you can have a Paladin/Bard. (Which has plenty of support in pen & paper, and is far from "ridiculous" as some RPG-diehards are exclaiming by now.)
Alternatively, you could take one level of Cleric for Turn Undead, and take Divine Might, so you can enhance your ranged damage.
As for other PrC's: be careful to keep your BAB high enough if you want to shoot a bow.
If you're willing to play with the console, you can have a Paladin/Bard. (Which has plenty of support in pen & paper, and is far from "ridiculous" as some RPG-diehards are exclaiming by now.)
Alternatively, you could take one level of Cleric for Turn Undead, and take Divine Might, so you can enhance your ranged damage.
I question the value of a Bard for anything *but* a Spellsword type character - so it's understandable that most everyone builds on a "buffed" melee basis (or using it as a pick-up class for something else).
Bards - what are they good for?
1. Good skills (..largely non-combat related).
2. Inspirations (..generally for Courage of Inspiration to improve attacks and damage to something closer to a high BAB warrior type, but also good for occasionally improving skills for non-combat activities).
and finally:
3. Bardic Song - combat related activities that unfortunately require you to ONLY use Song that round (..i.e. you can't attack and sing at the same time). Worse, the best of the lot (until epic levels) - are of the disabling category (either mind or the optional curse).
As a player character the focus of a build is going to be combat prowess, NOT utility. A combat-related defensive action is nice on occasion, but by far the majority of "attacks" need to be OFFENSIVE!
Kaedrin's has a few classes which actually add-in OFFENSIVE capability to Bardsong:
Stormsinger: (spell-like songs): Lightening Bolt, Call Lightening, Greater Call Lightening, Improved Lightening Bolt, and finally Storm of Vengeance.
Lyric Thaumaturge: (limited duration add-on effect.): Sonic Might (..adds-on 1d6 of sonic damage per spell-level to a sound-type spell.)
Only at epic levels specifically REQUIRING BARD LEVEL 21, can you obtain Song of Requiem for significant SONG damage.
That's pretty much it.
I've already done a Bard-based Archer here:
Songbow | NWN2 Character Builder
Bards - what are they good for?
1. Good skills (..largely non-combat related).
2. Inspirations (..generally for Courage of Inspiration to improve attacks and damage to something closer to a high BAB warrior type, but also good for occasionally improving skills for non-combat activities).
and finally:
3. Bardic Song - combat related activities that unfortunately require you to ONLY use Song that round (..i.e. you can't attack and sing at the same time). Worse, the best of the lot (until epic levels) - are of the disabling category (either mind or the optional curse).
As a player character the focus of a build is going to be combat prowess, NOT utility. A combat-related defensive action is nice on occasion, but by far the majority of "attacks" need to be OFFENSIVE!
Kaedrin's has a few classes which actually add-in OFFENSIVE capability to Bardsong:
Stormsinger: (spell-like songs): Lightening Bolt, Call Lightening, Greater Call Lightening, Improved Lightening Bolt, and finally Storm of Vengeance.
Lyric Thaumaturge: (limited duration add-on effect.): Sonic Might (..adds-on 1d6 of sonic damage per spell-level to a sound-type spell.)
Only at epic levels specifically REQUIRING BARD LEVEL 21, can you obtain Song of Requiem for significant SONG damage.
That's pretty much it.
I've already done a Bard-based Archer here:
Songbow | NWN2 Character Builder
That's an interesting build, but very Bard light. Not really what I'm looking for. I want bard heavy. I'm not really looking for a heavy combat oriented bard. Mostly just fun to RP and support the party kind of bard.
I might also take a level in rogue so I can get rid of Neeshka and still be able to open every lock in the game (any idea how high my open lock should be?)
I think what I will stick with is 19 Bard/1 Rogue/10 Stormsinger
Feat suggestions?
I might also take a level in rogue so I can get rid of Neeshka and still be able to open every lock in the game (any idea how high my open lock should be?)
I think what I will stick with is 19 Bard/1 Rogue/10 Stormsinger
Feat suggestions?
Yup, forgot about Curse Song - it's not a lingering damage (unlike the curse itself which is). Plus the damage is limited by both caster level and perform skill. The perform skill isn't a problem, but the "caster level" is.GawainBS wrote:Lingering Song is another nice feat, so you can Curse Song and then attack.
For instance only 8 damage for each Curse Song at level 10. At level 20 it improves to 28 damage assuming you have at least 50 in perform (which is unlikely).
A pure Sorcerer at level 6 can cast fireball (which is also an area effect that can cause damage to multiple targets); at level 10 the fireball is 10d6 for an average of 30 damage. More than 3 times as much as Curse Song at the same character level, and still more than the damage than from an unlikely "full-damage" of Curse Song at level 20.
Damage-wise (vs. character level), it's pretty weak.
For a basic Bard - definitely push the Bard up to level 21 for Song of Requiem (and later Hymn of Requiem).Ares2382 wrote:That's an interesting build, but very Bard light. Not really what I'm looking for. I want bard heavy. I'm not really looking for a heavy combat oriented bard. Mostly just fun to RP and support the party kind of bard.
I might also take a level in rogue so I can get rid of Neeshka and still be able to open every lock in the game (any idea how high my open lock should be?)
I think what I will stick with is 19 Bard/1 Rogue/10 Stormsinger
Feat suggestions?
By that point your Song of Requiem will be more powerful than most of the Stormsinger "spells". IMO, the Stormsinger grouping is a waste for this sort of build.. but, no reason not to have it (or some of it).
I'd go with Rogue 1/ Cleric 1/ Bard 21 / Stormsinger 7. Cleric with Domains Elf and Strength. Stormsinger spell continuation Cleric. (..you'll need Star Elf for your race with an early loading of Rogue 1 / Cleric 1 / Bard 1 to avoid multi-class penalties.)
The Cleric Elf domain nets you Point Blank Shot for "free" and access to both spells: True Strike and Protection from Alignment (for the mental immunity) early-on. At epic levels you'll start back into Cleric spells for your Stormsinger class - and eventually will have access to Divine Power. You'll also have several long-duration Cleric buffs that are nice.
Feats: Rapid Shot (Dexterity Requirement), Extend Spell, Song of the Heart, Battle Dancer, Curse Song, Extra Music, etc.. Epic: Song of Requiem, Hymn of Requiem, Epic Inspiration.
Attributes should be fairly balanced. 14 in Wisdom and 12 in Constitution. 16 in Charisma. 12-14 in Strength. 12 or more in Intelligence. More than 14 in Dexterity - and continue on with Dexterity at each level-up. (..or something like that.) 16 in Charisma should be enough for your Bard spell-casting.
You know in that case I might get Lyric Thaumaturge instead of Stormsinger.
Something like 1 rogue/1 cleric/23 Bard/5 LT
That should get me access to both Hymn of Requiem and Sonic Might (Do I really need both though?)
The other option might be
1 rogue/1 cleric/23 Bard/ 5 Dissonant Chord
Pretty good against spell casters (plenty of those in the game, especially MotB). 2 Extra Feats
Something like 1 rogue/1 cleric/23 Bard/5 LT
That should get me access to both Hymn of Requiem and Sonic Might (Do I really need both though?)
The other option might be
1 rogue/1 cleric/23 Bard/ 5 Dissonant Chord
Pretty good against spell casters (plenty of those in the game, especially MotB). 2 Extra Feats
The damage is the icing.Scottg wrote:Yup, forgot about Curse Song - it's not a lingering damage (unlike the curse itself which is). Plus the damage is limited by both caster level and perform skill. The perform skill isn't a problem, but the "caster level" is.
For instance only 8 damage for each Curse Song at level 10. At level 20 it improves to 28 damage assuming you have at least 50 in perform (which is unlikely).
A pure Sorcerer at level 6 can cast fireball (which is also an area effect that can cause damage to multiple targets); at level 10 the fireball is 10d6 for an average of 30 damage. More than 3 times as much as Curse Song at the same character level, and still more than the damage than from an unlikely "full-damage" of Curse Song at level 20.
Damage-wise (vs. character level), it's pretty weak.
Well, if the damage is the "icing" then the "cake" is flat and dry.GawainBS wrote:The damage is the icing.
Level 10 Bard Curse Song: -2 attack, -2 damage, -1 to saves.
Level 20: -2 attack, -3 damage, -2 to saves (-3 will), -5 to AC.
The AC reduction is really the "moist and fluffy" layer here, but only against a few high AC opponents in the campaigns, and pretty much only at level 14+. (..it's always useful, just not incredibly-so.)
(..of course the point of the topic was Bard song in relation to damage.. not counter-defensive ability.)
Ares2382 wrote:You know in that case I might get Lyric Thaumaturge instead of Stormsinger.
Something like 1 rogue/1 cleric/23 Bard/5 LT
That should get me access to both Hymn of Requiem and Sonic Might (Do I really need both though?)
The other option might be
1 rogue/1 cleric/23 Bard/ 5 Dissonant Chord
Pretty good against spell casters (plenty of those in the game, especially MotB). 2 Extra Feats
Lyric Thaumaturge only leverages Bard spells, NOT others like Cleric. (..and there is no real point in doing so for a Bard - no additional spells, no additional spell levels, etc..) Clap of Thunder and Sonic Might is nice.. but not really worth the loss of Cleric buffs.
You could go Canaith Lyrist, but you would need Evasion and it offers less to you than Stormsinger.
Was it, now? The point is that Countersong is a very useful ability for a Bard. You compared it to a Sorcerer casting Fireball, but Bards won't be doing that, unless you're scribing them scrolls, and even then they'd use minimal caster level, I think.Scottg wrote:Well, if the damage is the "icing" then the "cake" is flat and dry.
Level 10 Bard Curse Song: -2 attack, -2 damage, -1 to saves.
Level 20: -2 attack, -3 damage, -2 to saves (-3 will), -5 to AC.
The AC reduction is really the "moist and fluffy" layer here, but only against a few high AC opponents in the campaigns, and pretty much only at level 14+. (..it's always useful, just not incredibly-so.)
(..of course the point of the topic was Bard song in relation to damage.. not counter-defensive ability.)
Inflicting the song upon all your opponents is a good move, since it will mean your party lives longer and more easily inflicts damage.
I should also point out that I play on hardcore level, so the added benefit of bard damage songs vs something like fireball, is that it won't hurt your own party membersGawainBS wrote:Was it, now? The point is that Countersong is a very useful ability for a Bard. You compared it to a Sorcerer casting Fireball, but Bards won't be doing that, unless you're scribing them scrolls, and even then they'd use minimal caster level, I think.
Inflicting the song upon all your opponents is a good move, since it will mean your party lives longer and more easily inflicts damage.
And there is always the option of going with 1 rogue/1 sorc/21 bard/7 Storsinger. Then I'll have Fireball!!! And I can get rid of all the points in Wisdom for something else like Intelligence for more skill points for example.....
I'm almost regretting getting Kaedrin's pack. There are so many options that my need to try them all will make me play this game with 20 different characters. I want to finish it before Skyrim comes out!!!
Yes, yes it was. Remember that "Bard's - what are they good for?" comment?GawainBS wrote:Was it, now?
The point is that Countersong is a very useful ability for a Bard. You compared it to a Sorcerer casting Fireball, but Bards won't be doing that, unless you're scribing them scrolls, and even then they'd use minimal caster level, I think.
Inflicting the song upon all your opponents is a good move, since it will mean your party lives longer and more easily inflicts damage.
The whole point of my argument is that Bard's generally have no *OFFENSIVE* capability *beyond* either melee or ranged attacks. Even most of their spells are not damage-oriented.
But yes, Bards now *can* have offensive capability beyond melee/archery. A Stormsinger *can* do that.
As for Curse Song - I agree it has definite utility, and even some damage.
Yup. The thing is though, it's not getting a lot of utility from the Sorcerer class when compared to the Cleric for those few levels. Why fire a fireball when by the time you can you'll be able to do Song of Requiem?Ares2382 wrote:
And there is always the option of going with 1 rogue/1 sorc/21 bard/7 Storsinger. Then I'll have Fireball!!! And I can get rid of all the points in Wisdom for something else like Intelligence for more skill points for example.....
The Bard build I'm working pushes the Sorcerer concept a bit more. :mischief:
Ah, I thought it was commenting on my previous post (..a reply but without the visual baggage of the long quote). (..noting that curse song actually does damage.) The reason for my follow-up post on the damage numbers.GawainBS wrote:No, it was not. I mentioned Curse Song on its own, as a good support feat for attacking.
I'd of course fully agree that it's a good support feat for attacking.