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Easy MotB non-Kaedrin build

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Claudius
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Easy MotB non-Kaedrin build

Post by Claudius »

The qualities I want out of this build:

*easy to beat MotB as I had trouble with the difficulty my first run

*non-Kaedrin

*fun to play


Anyone, perhaps Scottg, have a build on the character builder for this?
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:The qualities I want out of this build:

*easy to beat MotB as I had trouble with the difficulty my first run

*non-Kaedrin

*fun to play


Anyone, perhaps Scottg, have a build on the character builder for this?


I think the ideal character for MOTB is a Warlock, but of all the builds it wasn't the most fun.

USUALLY I prefer the variety and overall power of well crafted Sorcerers - but they can be more difficult to play and still - not the most fun I've had with MOTB (especially considering the limitations).

So which build was the most fun for MOTB?

Assassin: The Left Hand of Gargauth. | NWN2 Character Builder

Pretty easy with just melee.

An absolute blast when you command your party to "hold their ground" and you go around making death attacks. (..really fun taking-out the coven "one-by-one".. as Gulkash would cackle.)

You would think that it would be useless with undead, but the opposite is true. Stealth-based attacks allow you to hide, which was exceedingly important in the Death Vault. Not only that, but really difficult to hit opponents with concealment (Shadow of the Void) were often easy to hit with an attack from stealth (denying their Dexterity bonus). As long as you have good damage modifiers on your weapon for the particular opponent (..usually Fire for Undead), damage isn't a problem.

In fact I can't think of a single fight in the game where this type of build wasn't useful. It was also a lot of fun with the *Rashamen Lodge (..and particularly useful as well, considering it has a +10 Strength belt, a persistent Haste ring with Improved Evasion and regen, and a weapon with Spirit Ruin on it.)

It should however be well-equipped, Strength bonus, Intelligence bonus, Spell Resistance, and Immunity to Criticals (..and also a ring of regeneration). The latter two you can get from an amulet early in the game without difficulty: "Periapt of the Lost Witch"

Personally I'd level-up (to level 20) and equip the character in Vordan's first, then export and use it to play - particularly for the +8 Intelligence Headband, +8 Strength belt, and some crafted armor(Mithral Chainmail)/shield with Hide and Move Silently bonuses. I also like Boots of the Sun Soul +5 and +8 AC Bracers.


As for actual game-play:

First I like to do some leveling up 2 levels (to 22) in the caves at the beginning. (..sleeping spawns spirits.) At this point you don't have to worry about a spirit meter. It also can be very important when you factor-in feats and spells for Sayfia and with respect to crafting (spirit essences), so I like to look over the recipes for MOTB at thieves-guild.net, to plan what's required for equipment and crafting generally.

*Note: I *think* the best progression for the Ice Troll Lodge is going though their tests and winning once you get into Mulsantir, then coming back later with OoM in your party (..after confronting the spirits outside of Mulsantir), and getting the brilliant spirit essences for the Shaman Na'Kai. I believe that you still get this opportunity from the Shaman and that completing the task causes the lodge to go hostile - which is what you want, despite winning their tests. (..but I'm not positive of this.)

An "Evil" role-play works best in this game.. mostly "self-interested" rather than sinister or manacle (..it really "meshes" well with your "hunger"). Role-playing like this results in better dialog, better companions, and potentially a better ending.

The best ending requires 3 things: Devour the Woodman, Myrkuul, and the Founder. The first one isn't a problem with companions (except Okku, but you shouldn't have him). The second one is a problem with OoM.. but by then you don't need OoM. The third one has *2* problems, IF you have Sayfia with you at the time you confront the Founder then it's a problem. The second problem is that you need to have your hunger at a lower disabling level. (..of course none of the companions are a problem if you intend to devour them as well.)

Personally I just ditch everyone right before heading to see Mykuul, that way neither OoM nor Sayfia is a problem. You can then pick them up again once you have finished with the Founder (..which takes you back to the Death Vault, which allows you access to Mulsantir and the theater to pick-up your party for the end).


Note: I never used Parry, so I'd probably spend the points on pickpocket/sleight of hand - there are several useful occasions for this.
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Post by Claudius »

Scottg, Thanks, I think I am going to try to just explore the game blindly as opposed to reading guides, but I'll check out your character.

One question is the lodge. I played that far last time and gave up because I could not beat the lodge. Are you saying that you trained and gathered some items before tackling them?

Is there as many undead as in the OC? I have a Wl9R1BG10 build that I think could dominate the OC with improved FE and FE power attack. If there is as many undead in the MotB as the OC I think adding FZ10 would make those FE IPAs very very big. But its probably not worth it if there is not many undeads. Do spirits count as undead?

What circumstance do you use Parry? This build looks AWESOME.
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:Scottg, Thanks, I think I am going to try to just explore the game blindly as opposed to reading guides, but I'll check out your character.

One question is the lodge. I played that far last time and gave up because I could not beat the lodge. Are you saying that you trained and gathered some items before tackling them?

Is there as many undead as in the OC? I have a Wl9R1BG10 build that I think could dominate the OC with improved FE and FE power attack. If there is as many undead in the MotB as the OC I think adding FZ10 would make those FE IPAs very very big. But its probably not worth it if there is not many undeads. Do spirits count as undead?

What circumstance do you use Parry? This build looks AWESOME.
The only guides I'm recommending is the *crafting* guide (from Thieves -Guild.net) and perhaps Gamebanshee's guide to Mulsantir (..for the Lost Witch amulet) - if you don't know where it is already (or the Well's of Lure Gamebanshee guide). Crafting in MOTB without the guide is nutty - MOTB treats it as an after-thought.

Thieves-Guild.Net - Your Portal to everything Neverwinter!


BTW, definitely accelerate your Spellcraft skill with the Parry skill points. It's the most important "dialog" skill in MOTB.

Parry is pretty much an additional defense mechanism for a Hide character: Ex.

1. Hide
2. Wait-out the cool-down on HiPS
3. Knockdown
4. Attack
5. Switch Parry ON and Walk-away to Hide
6. Repeat process

The "Parry" ON can usually deflect any physical attack (melee OR ranged) for that very short duration that you disengage your opponent. Honestly, it's nice for PvP, but unnecessary for MOTB.



The Lodge basically has two elements to it:

1. Test challenges, of varying natures - some you might win, others you might not. Strength, Constitution/Cold Resistance, Dexterity/Spot, a ring Fight. I think this character can win them all, but I'm not sure. I know it can easily win the ring Fight contest. With a Strength belt it *should* be able to easily win the Strength contest. With the Tiefling's resistance to cold and enough innate hitpoints it *should* be able to win the Constitution/Cold Resistance. I'm pretty sure it can win the Dexterity contest with Boots of the Sun Soul +5.. AND more importantly because of this character's high Spot skill (..and possibly because of a high Spellcraft skill), it can detect a cheat.

2. Battling the Entire Lodge - is just what you would think: killing everyone associated with the Lodge. IF you go through with the "Test" challenges then I don't think you have the opportunity to engage the head Berserker fighter to fight the entire lodge.. HOWEVER. AFTER you fight the spirit army outside of Mulsantir's gate AND you devoured Okku, then you can go back and ask the Shaman for his task/blessing. Once you have the brilliant spirit essences he asks for then he will attack you (because you killed Okku), and so will everyone else in the lodge. Of course getting the brilliant spirit essences may take some doing and crafting


Note: Devour Soul
Devour Soul - NWN2Wiki, the Neverwinter Nights 2 wiki - Races, classes, skills, and more
-is one of the more important things about this build - attacking humanoid types, getting their health down to full "suck" territory, and then using Devour Soul to suck them dry and gain their Spirit essence (and improving your spirit-meter rating). To get "full value" from any confrontation you don't want to be battling and killing off every opponent around you - if you do this you are missing out on the essences each have. Instead you want to pick them off one by one with the coup de grace via Devour Soul - so you get the spirit essences. (..same is true with elemental essences from the Telthor via Devour Spirit.) HOWEVER, because of the cool-down period of the feat Devour Soul (or Devour Spirit with Telthor), you have a waiting game before you move onto the next victim. Hide allows you that time to wait, or even to disengage entirely and come back latter and suck the next victim dry. Your companions only get in the way in these situations (..except OoM where you have him on persistent "hide", he is told to "hold his ground", and you have the AI turned OFF.) Most of the time simply telling your companions to "hold their ground" well away from opponents is sufficient, but their are times where it's a "canned" fight - and turning on the Uthraki after getting the Devour Soul feat is one of them, better to just leave them in the Theater in these circumstances.

Suggested reading #2 here about the Uthrak (SPOILER)i:
Neverwinter Nights 2 @ GameBanshee


As for Undead - Spirits aren't Undead. (..they are dead dead, actually they are listed as Fey.)

There really aren't that many undead in MOTB. Virtually all of them are in the Death God's Vault (1st and 2nd level). There are however a few in "concentration" that would be difficult to handle without stealth or companions. i.e. 3 Death Knights. Even then, with Death Knights be sure to have your critical immunity amulet on - because their criticals are devastating.
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Post by Scottg »

Also on "leveling"..


If you think you are up to it, my preferred area of leveling (before heading out to attack the spirit army in Mulsantir) is the Death Gods Vault.

You can sleep their with your companions and you will spawn enemies, and because you don't have a spirit meter yet, you can do so without "hunger" issues.

The *difference* between this place and the barrow even ealier-on is:

1. Different elemental essences (no water, mostly fire and power)

2. Stronger opponents means more experience points means faster leveling.

3. You can accumulate every companion EXCEPT for Okku or OoM.

Number 3 is important because of leveling-up your companions.

HOWEVER - it can be much more difficult. One of the keys to your success is getting fire damage crafted into a rapier ASAP.

Note: None of these sorts of encounters involve stealth-based attacks, so it's important to have good equipment - both offensively and defensively.


Additional Note: I like to "clean" the 1st level of the Vault before taking this action.
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Post by Scottg »

On character use:

Be sure to use Knockdown and Improved Disarm when appropriate.

Also, make extensive use of pick-pocket. If you have just given an item to someone then see if you can pick-pocket off them, even in combat.

Consider using *poison* on difficult opponents. Undead are immune, as are Spirits.

In many cases you will want a weak weapon for lower damage so you don't kill your victim (..before you can devour their spirit).

Have multiple weapons on-hand for different situations (..with different types of damage).

Finally, remember you have a few spells that you can cast via Race & Classes. Darkness can be quite useful on occasion. Both Ghostly Visage and Greater Invisibility are useful for their concealment bonus.. and Ghostly Visage actually lasts for awhile.
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Post by Claudius »

Ever think of going gnome and going Swashbuckler 9 Bard 1.... Then you can two hand the rapier for a large amount of extra damage?
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:Ever think of going gnome and going Swashbuckler 9 Bard 1.... Then you can two hand the rapier for a large amount of extra damage?
There is no difference in attack numbers between Bard 2 SB 8 and Bard 1 SB 9.

I have done a Gnome build before with 2-handed use of a rapier.. BUT the game screws up the damage with the Power Attacks (..and an FB's Empowered Power Attack).

More importantly no Shield use without also having Monkey Grip - and then you are at another -2 to attack.

Basically a different build. ..and to be honest, this build needs better attacks and AC than it needs better damage. Damage is already excellent:

Lvl 21:
Critically Immune Opponent
+Weapon Damage 1d6 (average 3)
+Inspire Courage bonus Damage +1
+Strength bonus Damage 12 (26 +8 belt)
+Enhancment bonus +5
+Elemental bonus Damage 6d8 (average 24)

Average 45 per hit.

Non-Critically Immune Opponent
+Insightful Strike bonus Damage 8 (18 +8 headband)
+Potential Critical Hit X2 for everything but Elemental bonus (..and this happens a LOT with a Rapier).

Average 53 per hit.
Double Damage Critical Average 58 + Average 24 of Elemental = 82

Non-Critically Immune with Sneak Attack
+Sneak Attack bonus Damage 5d6 (Average 15)

Average 68 per hit.


..oh, there would also be level penalties for most of the build life as well with a Gnome.
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Post by Claudius »

Just for a discussion Gnome AB would be the same due to small stature. That would be a big minus not to get the shield AC I agree. No level up penalties because gnome favored class is bard.

I'm not sure but two handing I think you would get with the 46 strength (belt) is 18 damage you get an extra 9 damage. And possibly you get damage and a half from the insightful strike?? That would be a total of 13 extra damage and 26 on crits.

If implamented small stature should also give +4 to Hide in Shadows.


I'm playing your build, got to highcliff. I'm using the electrical storm hammer which is finessable and he is doing huge damage.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:Just for a discussion Gnome AB would be the same due to small stature. That would be a big minus not to get the shield AC I agree. No level up penalties because gnome favored class is bard.

I'm not sure but two handing I think you would get with the 46 strength (belt) is 18 damage you get an extra 9 damage. And possibly you get damage and a half from the insightful strike?? That would be a total of 13 extra damage and 26 on crits.

If implamented small stature should also give +4 to Hide in Shadows.


I'm playing your build, got to highcliff. I'm using the electrical storm hammer which is finessable and he is doing huge damage.
My Strength computation was with what you would likely have at level 21 (46 at level 29 with a +10 Belt).

I'd forgotten that a Rock Gnome had Bard as a favored class.. Strength bonus problem though. :(

Ah, Highcliff - so OC first and then MOTB?

Honestly I thought this build wasn't that hot with the OC.. Not bad, but not great either. (precious few opportunities for sneak attacks with HiPS.) (..I really enjoyed using Disarm though.) It's a completely different story with MOTB though - fantastic.

Get Galen's (merchant) Rapier! :mischief: (..the "Daze" feature on it allows for sneak attack damage - assuming the opponent can be dazed and isn't sneak attack immune.) Worthless with Undead of course.
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Post by Claudius »

The slaan chieftain fight is pretty hard. I was trying to role play what is logical. I mean how would someone know there is a map on his corpse. But just fighting the chieftain in his throne room is pretty difficult! For one thing Neeshka gets taken down fast. Elanee goes boar form while me and khelgar try to kill the shaman fast. But he gets off a prayer spell and that is a very bad thing.

I guess I will try it the map 'cheese' way?
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:The slaan chieftain fight is pretty hard. I was trying to role play what is logical. I mean how would someone know there is a map on his corpse. But just fighting the chieftain in his throne room is pretty difficult! For one thing Neeshka gets taken down fast. Elanee goes boar form while me and khelgar try to kill the shaman fast. But he gets off a prayer spell and that is a very bad thing.

I guess I will try it the map 'cheese' way?
I never do this fight.. it's not in your self-interest - I mean, what do you get out of it? :D Broker the deal and move on. ;)

..if you still want to fight then don't forget you have Darkness.
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Post by Scottg »

..deleted.
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Post by Claudius »

Scott, how would it affect the build if I kept it without a level up penalty and went Bard 4 Swash 6 (last penalty at 30 doesn't matter). It doesn't seem like it would screw anything up beyond repair?? I wouldn't be able to cast the bard spells, and thus it would be a loss of power, but it seems like it doesn't effect so much what the build was designed to do.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Post by Scottg »

Claudius wrote:Scott, how would it affect the build if I kept it without a level up penalty and went Bard 4 Swash 6 (last penalty at 30 doesn't matter). It doesn't seem like it would screw anything up beyond repair?? I wouldn't be able to cast the bard spells, and thus it would be a loss of power, but it seems like it doesn't effect so much what the build was designed to do.
Sorry it's taken me a while to respond.. been sick.

Anything at the end is fine, but be sure to check BAB (if that matter's to you at that stage).

I did it this way because I didn't want any spell-casting, and because I liked the idea of Swashbuckler Lvl 8 Improved Flanking.
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Post by puiwaihin »

On the original topic, I'd have to say the easiest build to go through the game is with a Frezerker. Either an insanely strong RDD/Frenzy/Fighter or WM/Frenzy/Fighter. It's easy enough to get a regeneration item, and after that you barely have to even slow down.

The "suppress" path is easier than the "devour" path. But devouring is a good way to play remorseless villain.
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Post by wootman »

puiwaihin wrote:On the original topic, I'd have to say the easiest build to go through the game is with a Frezerker. Either an insanely strong RDD/Frenzy/Fighter or WM/Frenzy/Fighter. It's easy enough to get a regeneration item, and after that you barely have to even slow down.

The "suppress" path is easier than the "devour" path. But devouring is a good way to play remorseless villain.
Just got NWN 2 Platinum, off the steam sale. Just looking in to what character to play for OC and MOTB.

Just wanna swing a big sword with heavy armor. Is RDD/Frenzy/Fighter something to look into?

Found this build, is it good enough for using with greatword instead of scimitar?

[Yardstick] F14/B1/RDD10/FB5 Frenzied Drake with 9/- DR | NWN2 Character Builder
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Post by Scottg »

wootman wrote:Just got NWN 2 Platinum, off the steam sale. Just looking in to what character to play for OC and MOTB.

Just wanna swing a big sword with heavy armor. Is RDD/Frenzy/Fighter something to look into?

Found this build, is it good enough for using with greatword instead of scimitar?

[Yardstick] F14/B1/RDD10/FB5 Frenzied Drake with 9/- DR | NWN2 Character Builder
It's a good build.. not completely "as advertised", and it could use at least one alteration of position on feat selection.

DO NOT CHANGE to Greatsword. There are numerous reasons, but basically you'll loose shield use and a probably end-up with less average damage per round because the Greatsword doesn't critical nearly as often.
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Post by wootman »

Scottg wrote:It's a good build.. not completely "as advertised", and it could use at least one alteration of position on feat selection.

DO NOT CHANGE to Greatsword. There are numerous reasons, but basically you'll loose shield use and a probably end-up with less average damage per round because the Greatsword doesn't critical nearly as often.
What alterations would you recommend? Or do you know any other frezerkers builds that is worth looking up on nwn2db.com?

Okay. The thing is, I has always hated the look of scimitars on my character, think they look plain silly. Is there any other weapon i should change it for? Like Longssword/Bastard?
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Post by Nymie_the_Pooh »

With scimitar (or any one handed weapon) you will likely either want to dual wield or use a shield. If I remember correctly shields have a chance to cause spell failure for bards. It's not a great chance and there are shields that do not have a spell penalty, but it's still there on many shields. If you are worried about appearances but want the same basic stats of a scimitar then maybe a rapier. It's the same numbers across the board but is piercing damage instead of slashing.

For two-handed weapon option, greatsword and greataxe are probably the most commonly available. If you don't feel like messing with crafting and are only building for the OC or MotB then these are probably the two options to look at.

Stat wise I prefer falchions and scythes in the long run on persistent worlds that support them. This matters a bit more with what puiwaihin was asking with Weapon Masters as they offer some abilities which makes crits happen more often and harder crits than with wootman's query. Either build likely has enough strength to qualify for Overpowering Critical as well. Seven levels of Weapon Master focused on scythe with improved crit and overpowering crit means 17-20/x5 with +4d6 damage on a crit making it the more spiky of the two. If you don't like the look of scimitars then falchions are most likely not an option as they are essentially over sized scimitars.

As somebody mentioned on the Yardstick, Bard should probably be taken first level for more skill points. The only reason I can see for starting with 14 intelligence is for skill points so this small change just helps that. Also, overpowering critical would fit in well and should probably be included on any melee build that includes improved critical and has the strength to take it as it makes the crits just that little bit better. Then again, on a scimitar it is just +1d6 damage on a crit, but it adds up and is more useful in my opinion than another +1 to hit.

On a quick side note, I keep forgetting that you can use a scimitar two-handed, but if you are going to focus on two-handed fighting and don't have a particular weapon in mind for end game then I would go with a larger weapon for a bit more damage, but scimitar does leave the option for a shield open and it's not like you'll be using many bard spells with just the one level. Then again, a falchion is 2d4 18-20/x2 base so is usually only one or two damage over a scimitar on normal hits so it's not like you're really losing out on damage. If you don't want either, and scythes aren't particularly common where you are playing, then I would go with the greataxe over a greatsword as I just feel it to be more satisfying when I do get those crits. They are pretty close in damage over a large number of swings so it's not a huge deal which one goes with.

The one weapon I saw you mention that I would not use is a bastard sword. It's basically a longsword with one more damage on average, but requires using a feat to unlock. Same goes for katana if there are any leanings in that direction as it is essentially a bastard sword in every way but name. Dwarven waraxes can be nice if you are a dwarf and get the proficiency for free. If you are playing on a server with khopeshes then they are excellent weapons and something I would seriously consider picking up the feat for. They sadly are not available in the base game itself or any of the expansions. As it stands I don't personally feel there are any exotic weapons worth spending a feat on if not playing with player created content.

So, summary from me is shift Bard to level one, pick up overpowering critical, and take the weapon you want. The rest of that was just some guidelines and information so you don't go into the choice blind. I'd probably do other tweaks for personal taste, but that's all the big things and taste is subjective.
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