Regarding the Stalker kit

mrdeluxe · Post by **mrdeluxe** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:25 pm

After reaching Baldur's Gate, in BG1, with my unstoppable Cavalier, I got a feeling the rest of the saga wasn't gonna change a whole lot. And if my Cavalier felt unstoppable now, with Carsomyr I might as well just let him auto-attack.

So, I started thinking about other different, challenging, classes. One that I never tried was the Stalker. On a glancing look he looks like an underpowered Fighter/Thief, which might actually be good! I don't mind a challenging game.

What do you think about the kit? Would it make a fun solo/duet with, possibly, Viconia through Chapters 2 and 3, and adding Imoen later on?

What other classes are a little underrrated/underpowered but fun (and challenging) to play?

Also: What advice would you give me regarding the Stalker? Weapons you recommend, etc.

Thanks!

mrdeluxe · Post by **mrdeluxe** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:10 am

Regarding weapons, I'm thinking about going with Crossbows and Longswords through BG1, adding Katanas and possibly Scimitars through SoA, and finally Warhammers near ToB, for the combo: Hindo's Doom/Crom Faeyr.

What do you think? This means, however, that I won't be able to use the Flail of Ages and Celestial Fury + Flail of Ages (Stun and Slow) is a pretty cool combination.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:19 am

The stalker will be too easy for you, just like a cavalier with even more combat options.
Try an avenger.

mrdeluxe · Post by **mrdeluxe** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:38 am

You're probably right about the stalker being too easy, but I was considering a very small party (two NPCs in SoA adding the third in ToB). That way I'm going to have to make the Stalker my main fighter through most of the game. That and the armor restrictions might make it more interesting. (I don't want a frustrating game, just something a little more varied than putting on the best armor and the best two-handed sword in the game and kill everything).

I have played an Avenger and on my first play through, IIRC. It was fun but I didn't go very far with it. Actually finishing the game (SoA, ToB I never finished), I only did with a Cleric/Ranger (I was basically a god), and a Blade. Almost finished with a Kensai and a Monk.

I keep wanting to play with a Mage, but it's just not my style.

P.S.: Ranger is now my favorite class for Stat rolls. Every one looked like a 90 something!

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:41 pm

Rangers have high minimum requirements in many stats, and you can't roll below the requirement, so you get high rolls right enough.

Stalker is actually very powerful, as kmonster notes - they are highly versatile and the magic item offered by the game offset most of their 'setbacks'.
Actually, our tactics specialists will tell you almost any class can rock as long as it's played right, but some need constant supervision and micromanagement while others can, as you say, auto-hack.

I found a bard to be challenging as the main character, even with quite powerful npc's, and a soloing wizardslayer dualed to thief was very difficult... until she suddenly became more like an iron golem than an actual bhaalspawn :laugh: Still, the game's enjoyable features span beyond tactics and battles, so why don't you just choose whichever class you find appealing and then tell us all about it?

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:10 pm

Quengalad touched on the class that's possibly the most chalenginh, a Wizard Slayer that never dual classes.

A properly interpreted Berserker, again with no dual classing, could be a challenge. For some reason the Wizards of the Coast didn't seem to understand that Berserker is a translation from the Norse for "bare shirt". If any warrior should be forbidden from wearing armour it this class, possibly, depending on interpretation, they could wear unenchanted wolf pelts (leather armour), but no more. I've actually used Infinity Engine Editor Pro to implement this, and it, along with the ban on missile weapons (without glitch exploitation, I also edited throwing axes) does make them more challenging. It could be argued that they should have the ability to shapechange into a Bear, but I haven't gone that far.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:59 pm

In all honesty, the game is easy to beat as any class, and as someone that solos a lot, I have to say that the smaller the party, the easier the game is - primarily because you're reaching high levels very quickly.

Bards are even easier than Cavaliers due to them having access to wands and powerful spells very early on. As for galraen's suggestion - while fun, it's not much of a hindrance, as you will soon find jewelry or spells to offset the disadvantage and later on, resistance to physical damage. Nonetheless, it's still an interesting idea.

Try giving the Beast Master a go. He can solo the game just like everyone else, but he has very limited equipment choices. For a real challenge though, I would suggest that you figure out a story for your character and play with self-iposed restrictions.

mrdeluxe · Post by **mrdeluxe** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:19 am

Thanks for the help, everyone! You got me thinking a lot about what is fun and challenging.

The Wizard Slayer does sound interesting. I wish I could make a mix with the Wizard Slayer and the Kensai: Can't use armor, can't use missile weapons, can't use any magic items except a (one) sword.

A character like that would be murder in BG1 (and not in a good way), but have a chance to become extremely enjoyable in the long run. Hummm…

(Sometimes I think I have more fun thinking about this game than actually play it.)

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:11 am

Crenshinibon wrote:In all honesty, the game is easy to beat as any class,

(...)

Bards are even easier than Cavaliers due to them having access to wands and powerful spells very early on. As for galraen's suggestion - while fun, it's not much of a hindrance, as you will soon find jewelry or spells to offset the disadvantage and later on, resistance to physical damage. Nonetheless, it's still an interesting idea.

Try giving the Beast Master a go. He can solo the game just like everyone else, but he has very limited equipment choices. For a real challenge though, I would suggest that you figure out a story for your character and play with self-iposed restrictions.

Yup, just like I said

Of course, for someone who enjoys making spell combos and suchlike, bards are powerful and not hard at all. For someone like me, they are a challenge, but in a good way.
A non-dualed wizardslayer would have a hard time indeed, especially solo, with no one to heal them and such. I know mine did, although Cren's probably would do better :laugh:

Self-imposed restrictions are pretty fun. I remember playing a paladin who would simply not take any jewelery, gold or armour from the fallen - stripping a dead body, how dishonourable! Only shop bought stuff and the occasional weapon taken from a dead hand. He was poor, but fair.

mrdeluxe · Post by **mrdeluxe** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:31 am

QuenGalad wrote:I remember playing a paladin who would simply not take any jewelery, gold or armour from the fallen - stripping a dead body, how dishonourable! Only shop bought stuff and the occasional weapon taken from a dead hand. He was poor, but fair.

I was doing a very similar thing with my Cavalier: I didn't randomly enter peoples' houses, I never stole (or open chests), except when in a dungeon. I wouldn't accept quests that where unlawful (Thieves guild comes to mind), and I would always do the honorable thing, even if that meant loosing a cool item (ex.: Cloak of Balduran).

It was surprising the number of quests that I couldn't do roleplaying this way.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:23 am

Which difficulty setting did you play ?

mrdeluxe · Post by **mrdeluxe** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:33 pm

Always Core Rules. I think I'll try increasing it to Hard.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:48 pm

Try creating a character with average or even minimal stats and accept (or even enforce minimal) random hit point rolls at level up. I'm quite sure you'll have big trouble soloing a human wizardslayer with minimal stats.

But the best challenge is playing ironman.

prune1 · Post by **prune1** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:04 am

Do you play with any mods? Should try sword coast strategems II, if you haven't already. It's an AI enhancing mod and makes the game a lot more challenging. The vanilla game is truly far too easy after the first time.

mrdeluxe · Post by **mrdeluxe** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:58 am

I'm in a constant state of restarting! I've since abandoned my Stalker and started playing with the Archer.

Boy, that guy can shoot!

However, I'm thinking about versatility throughout the rest of the game, and the archer might start becoming a little boring…

So, which of the two do you think is more entertaining throughout the saga (BG1, BG2, ToB), the Archer or the Stalker?

BTW, what other classes do you think are fun to play that are not too powerful (like Kensage, Ranger/Cleric, etc)?