BGT or Tutu? (SPOILERS!)

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:04 pm

Okay, planning a new, full, playthrough of the entire saga... This time, I want an evil protagonist with Viconia as his romance interest (Never done any female romance before! No spoilers please!).

As I can't for the life of me imagine sitting down with the old bg1 again, so I've been looking at the alteratives. And it seems to boil down to BGT or Tutu. Straight off the bat, I must say BGT sounds mighty impressive, what with the continuation and all. But I have been searching, and searching, and searching... and I can't seem to find any detailed explanation of exacly how BGT does this.

As an evil protagonist, this creates problems. In order to stay true to the story, I'd have to be using Minsc, Jaheira, Dynaheir, Khalid and Imoen, which is something an evil character probably wouldn't do. I don't think those would stick with me particularly long, either, bar Jaheira and Imoen, maybe. And as for BG1s evil NPCs, none of them really made any impression on me besides maybe Viconia. Eldoth was terrible, I ditched him as soon as I met him. Kagain is decent but Korgan in BG2 is ten times more awesome, imo. And then there's Edwin which I'll bring along solely for the amusing quest of his in SoA.

So. What happens with the party in BGT if I had, say, Viconia, Edwin, Kagain, Eldoth and maybe...Safana? Safana would've been nice, but as she's not a joinable NPC in SoA, she wouldn't have any interactions or anything with the BG2 NPCs so that's a no-no, besides, she has her own plot with Coran there.

What happens with Viconia and Edwin in BGT? Do they get captured with the PC, or do they head out on their own and are then encountered again? What I find hard to buy is how an evil PC would end up imprisoned with Jaheria, Minsc and Imoen...

I've been thinking. Since I don't recall BG1 being half as much fun as SoA/ToB was, and since all the interesting NPCs I want are already in BG2, would it be better for me to simply skip it and maybe just play from SoA instead? Then again, with one of these two great mods enhancing the experience, maybe I'll have a complete blast this time.

My second gripe with BGT is that I read somewhere that the graphics are better in BGtutu. Graphics are important to me, as I explain [url='http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/threads/bg-ee.122113/']here[/url]. Is this true? How noticeable is the difference?

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:34 pm

I don't know that this post will be very useful, since I've never used BGT, but what I can say is that I've used EastyTUTU for years, and I've never once had an issue with it. It installed incredibly easily and painlessly, and mods fitted into it very well.

I stayed away from BGT since, at the time, it seemed like it'd be more work. I also seem to recall that I found a few mods that weren't guaranteed to work with BGT, but if you're planning for an unmodded game (er, besides these two) then you should be fine. Still, if you decide you'd like some more mods, I can definitely recommend a few that make BG1 a much more entertaining run-through without significantly altering the game in any real way. My favorite brings back the BG1 UI (graphically only, all of the BG2 features are still there...), which brings back a lot of BG1 nostalgia and mood-setting while retaining all of Tutu's substantial perks...

I guess all I can say on the topic is that Tutu is very reliable. If you can't choose between them, I'd go with Tutu just because you can be sure it won't mess with you. But if you decide BGT is more interesting, totally, go with it. And be sure to tell us how it worked out!

Finally, as far as skipping BG1 goes... Yeah. It's a real option. The second is really a much better game, for what the series does well. You've played it before, so you know that BG1 involves a huge amount of time exploring enormous (and fairly empty) countryside for the odd quest and item, all the while with combat that's much less predictable and strategic than BG2's. So I'd think for a while on if you really want to play through it again. It's great for what it is, but... well... I can tell you I've started characters in BG1 multiple times thinking I'll go all the way through the series, only to give up a few hours later because the game's such a chore.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:44 pm

I've used both, BGT is my favourite be a big margin. It's more interesting, better thought out, and I've had no issues with it or running mod with it. It's weidu based now so no trouble to install. It will also take some notice of things that happen in BG1 when transferring to BG2. If you don't pick up Jaheira or Minsc, or if they die, then they won't appear in BG2 for example.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:28 am

That's pretty nice. But I guess you can't start out with other party members in BG2..

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:50 am

Only by using console and SK unfortunately as far as I know: no getting rid of Imoen either of course.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:15 am

Well that's what I was thinking. I mean, even if my PC might not like Imoen, she's rather central to the story. I'm curios as to how BGT handles this. What happens if my party at the end of BG1 has none of the characters that you start BG2 with? Will he wake up alone in Irenicus' dungeon?

Despite the fact that my PC might not like Jaheria, Minsc and Imoen, they ARE who you start with in BG2, and, as such they have lots of interesting dialogue and interactions during the course of the starting dungeon. Even if I may not intend to keep them throughout the whole of BG2, I would like to keep them with me for a time to make the opposite dialogue choices of what I did the last time (I really love these three NPCs though, I merely want to try something different this time). Besides, Jaheira has lots of interesting quests in BG2 that I'd like to try as an Evil PC, being rude and selfish to her culminating in her leaving the party (Or the PC killing her!

) during the Harper quests.

Despite it being possible with CLUA and SK, I really have no desire to bring along any original BG NPCs. I think pretty much all of them were vastly inferior to the BG2 cast - hell, I can't even remember many of them! But besides that, they weren't meant for BG2 play and such has no banters or interactions avilable to them making them incredibly boring. Ofcourse, there might be mods for them, but I'll just point back to what I just wrote, before.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:40 am

Will he wake up alone in Irenicus' dungeon?

Yep, unfortunately the absolute worst thing Bioware did was the transition from BG1 to BG2. Frankly if Jaheira or Minsc die in BG1 or you never pick them up they shouldn't be in the dungeon at the start of SoA. Even 'the DMs word is final' doesn't excuse them for this blunder, sheer laziness, and something I hope will be corrected in SoA:EE.

You will have Imoen of course, even if she was useless at lock picking at the end of BG and you have 100% you still can't pick the lock yourself!

Being on your own at the start of SoA shouldn't be a problem, it's not exactly a hard dungeon to get through, it's just the annoyance of leaving Baldur's gate with 5 companions who mysteriously disappear without any explanation to find two corpses and a total stranger in gaol with you in Chateau Irenicus. Which is what happened to me the first time I played the game, and I'll never forgive them for that!

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:28 pm

galraen wrote:Yep, unfortunately the absolute worst thing Bioware did was the transition from BG1 to BG2. Frankly if Jaheira or Minsc die in BG1 or you never pick them up they shouldn't be in the dungeon at the start of SoA. Even 'the DMs word is final' doesn't excuse them for this blunder, sheer laziness, and something I hope will be corrected in SoA:EE.

You will have Imoen of course, even if she was useless at lock picking at the end of BG and you have 100% you still can't pick the lock yourself!

Being on your own at the start of SoA shouldn't be a problem, it's not exactly a hard dungeon to get through, it's just the annoyance of leaving Baldur's gate with 5 companions who mysteriously disappear without any explanation to find two corpses and a total stranger in gaol with you in Chateau Irenicus. Which is what happened to me the first time I played the game, and I'll never forgive them for that!

Hehe, I wouldn't count on it. Honestly, from the many reviews and comments I've read it seems all they did was to touch up the graphics and add some new NPCs. Sure, they made the code more effecient, but they didn't bother correcting any of the old bugs and faults. It seems they're a bit scared of how the longtime fans will react if they change too much, I doubt they'll dabble with story elements. We can definately hope, but I highly doubt it.

Aye, they could've definately handled the conversion better. Granted, for me, it was a blast because the NPCs you start SoA with was pretty much the ones I left BG1 with, but as I'm planning for another playthrough I can definately see the problem. They could've just had you import the whole party and not just the PC into SoA. Then again, that would've probably required too much work. Imagine, they'd have to write new dialogue for ALL the BG1 NPCs, and then even tons of new banters and interactions with the BG2 NPCs and quests... They could've narrowed it down abit, though, so that maybe Edwin and Viconia would end up imprisoned with PC, atleast.

Hmm, I shall have to think on this. In the end, Garriath spoke true what with BG1 having lots of really insignifcant areas, and (although I can't recall) the combat was probably not as fun, either. Still, I think I'll give it a try, just to see what it's like. Play a few hours and then decide... leaning towards Tutu atm, but we shall see...I have more research to do first. Thanks lads!

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:40 pm

Why Tutu?

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:58 am

galraen wrote:Why Tutu?

Didn't we just go over this? The main thing which interests me about BGT is the conversion, and since it's already set in stone what partners you start SoA with, I might aswell just play along because BGT doesn't seem to be able to make the conversion any less jarring. NPCs who are dead in BG1 stay dead, you say. But I don't intend to kill either Minsc or Jaheria in BG1, so it seems not much will be different.

Aside from that, Tutu seems easier to install - well, I've been playing a heavily modded Oblivion for years and am not a stranger to load lists and programs like Wrye Bash, but why make it harder on myself? - and has better graphics.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:50 am

Aside from that, Tutu seems easier to install

Nope, that was true a while ago, but since they made it weidu compatible it's just as easy to install as Tutu, in fact I had less trouble installing it.

Tutu doesn't improve the graphics any more than BGT does, and I had more glitche using Tutu than I ever had with BGT, in part at least because of the way the Tutu people prefixed item and spell files with an underscore. Tutu makes no attempt to translate into SoA, you have to transfer your save files manually, which might sound picky, but underlines the more professional approach that the BGT people took, even more professional than Bioware!

The reason I was curious is because you only had two responses to your question, and one of the responders hasn't actually tried both mods.

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:54 am

galraen wrote:Nope, that was true a while ago, but since they made it weidu compatible it's just as easy to install as Tutu, in fact I had less trouble installing it.

Tutu doesn't improve the graphics any more than BGT does, and I had more glitche using Tutu than I ever had with BGT, in part at least because of the way the Tutu people prefixed item and spell files with an underscore. Tutu makes no attempt to translate into SoA, you have to transfer your save files manually, which might sound picky, but underlines the more professional approach that the BGT people took, even more professional than Bioware!

The reason I was curious is because you only had two responses to your question, and one of the responders hasn't actually tried both mods.

*Easytutu

Well these aren't exacly the most active forums...I am to wait with my decision a couple of weeks for another guy to post?

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:52 pm

*Easytutu

That's what I assumed, it isn't actually any easier.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:40 pm

I'll just reiterate that I've never actually played BGT, so my recommendation of Tutu shouldn't come as any sort of denunciation of its competition.

galraen wrote:Tutu doesn't improve the graphics any more than BGT does,

I did just want to point out, though, that Tutu lets you install graphic mods which only affect BG1, bringing back the old menu screens and UI, while keeping BG2's features. My impression is that BGT, by making it one long game, wouldn't do that. So while the graphics might be equal in most senses, Tutu does seem to offer more options and more flexibility than BGT.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:57 pm

Not sure what sort of advantage there is in bringing back dated menus and UI, any graphic mods which affect BG2 will affect the BG1 element of the game in BGT. Not that there are any graphic mods that do improve the look of the game. One of the advantages of BGT is that it does combine the disperate elements of the game into one game.

I enjoyed easy Tutu when it came out, I hadn't been able to face dealing with the complexities of it or the original BGT prior to that, so never bothered with either of them until they sorted the installation out. Tutu won the race to ease installation, so that was the first one I used and used it for some time before trying BGT. I found the methods Tutu used unsatisfactory, which was what drove me to try BGT once I discovered they'd made a weidu version, and was quickly won over.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:01 pm

PS Strange that only two of us, apart from Thomas has joined in this debate, it doesn't really help Thpmas to have only two inputs. Surely someone else has a view, even if they all disagree with me, I'd still be interested in knowing why. I'm not exactly unused to being proven wrong, so if you disagree say so!

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:06 pm

But I have been searching, and searching, and searching... and I can't seem to find any detailed explanation of exacly how BGT does this.

Spoiler:

After your confrontation with your bro the game doesn't end, you are told to return to the Ducal Palace, when you get there you're asked to deliver a message to the authorities in Amn. On the way you get ambushed by a bunch of hired thieves, lead by a certain guild leader you may later meet in Athkatla.[

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:58 pm

To prove the above, I can even prove myself wrong!

It seems that if you don't speak to Minsc or Jaheira they do still end up in prison with you, so 100 demerits for BGT for that!

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:58 am

So, what is the final verdict?

NocturneN · Post by **NocturneN** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:16 am

The verdict is that I am having major problems just viewing this thread, and the Gamebanshee-site as a whole. That is why I haven't replied as of yet; the thread has refused to load in my browser. I apologize, but I feel I must resolve this situation before I can reply here with any sort of consistency (Miracolously, I was able to post this!)...