What's a Druid worth

Mr. Sprinkles · Post by **Mr. Sprinkles** » Tue Nov 27, 2001 7:55 pm

It's a priest with a few different spells and high level abilities that are really nifty, but the ones you're given (Jaheira and Cernd), aren't that great. On one hand you have a multi-class (which sucks in TOB) and a Druid with the worst stats of any NPC. I really hope that they make TDD compatible with TOB, those new Druid kits look really awesome. What do you sacrafice for a spell that disrupts mages for several rounds, the ability to transform into powerful creatures, and some really cool summoning spells? With Jaheira, you only get half of what you could have, and with Cernd you get a boring personality and a really weak character. Sure, the Greater Werewolf is great, but he can't cast spells while transformed, and even the Staff of the Woodlands doesn't make up for how weak he is. If only Druids didn't have to be True Neutral, I'd make one myself... your opinion?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed Nov 28, 2001 2:50 am

I am curious. Why do you say that multiclass characters suck in ToB? On the contrary I think multi is the way to go in ToB. Haven't used Cernd that much but jaheira is a great NPC.

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Wed Nov 28, 2001 3:05 am

I've got to agree with Bruce Lee.
Bruce Lee, ..., that's funny.
Anyway, multiclass is pretty good
in ToB.
And Jaheira just kicks a....
Out of the 4 time i've gone through
ToB, my fighter/cleric was by far my
best character.

Onyx

Aegnor · Post by **Aegnor** » Wed Nov 28, 2001 4:49 am

Have to agree with Mr. Sprinkles...the druids are disappointing. Jaheira has nice stats, sure, but to wait until you have 3million exp just for one 7th level spell, and then ANOTHER 3 million until the next level up (in druid class)...I guess I'm not patient enough. And Cernd, well, he's just not an option in my book.

Has anyone used shadowkeeper to make Jaheira a pure druid? It'd be interesting to try, methinks.

@Mr. Sprinkles - do you know about the "cheat" for getting access to high level druid spells? The ranger/cleric DUAL class option gives you access to all druid and priest spells, while giving you the easier cleric experience table. Some (myself included) would feel this upsets game balance, however.

Anyone know if a human fighter (with high enough stats)can dual-class to druid?

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Wed Nov 28, 2001 5:25 am

Sure you can dual a human fighter to a druid.

What you need:

15 str.
17 wis.
17 cha.

SPOILERS

PS: the str and wis you probably already have planned to max out, but with regards to the charisma, you just have to suck it up, as the ring of human influence won't work.

-Sylvanerian

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Nov 28, 2001 10:08 am

I'm still playing the solo shapeshifter druid without items; just reached Suldanesselar.
I can tell you that the druid is the weakest single spellcaster class in SoA (xp cap). The (ToB enhanced) shapeshifter's fighting abilites are awesome, but has its limitations. The biggest problem is the low level(14) which mean weak saves and only a few high level spells (3x5, 2x6, 1x7). If it weren't for that Nature's Beuty spell, many boss fights couldn't be finished (without resting). Nevertheless it is a challenge!

With ToB and level 15 (3M xp) things will became totally different (I hope)! But in the end it still will be very hard I think.

Mr. Sprinkles · Post by **Mr. Sprinkles** » Wed Nov 28, 2001 4:34 pm

Hmm, maybe it would make sense to change a Druid's alignment. Afterall, there are Shadow Druids. I could run a Light Druid (assuming those even exist). I still don't understand how Jaheira can be a Druid and a Harper at the same time. I never take Cernd for the reason that his personality and attributes suck, but also because of his kid. If he leaves the grove, his kid grows up evil. But come to think of it, wouldn't anyone grow up evil if their dad were like Cernd?

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 7:48 pm

HERETIC

Mr Sprinkles, there are those here that LIKE Cernd. Personnaly, I think hes a great character. (So sue me, I like the underdog)

jaheria can be a harper and a druid primarily becuase the harpers are run by druids and neutral bards and rangers. So ya, it makes perfect sense.

In fact, I get rather annoyed at all the non power character bashing that goes on around here.

I mean, have any of you played through the game with a Ranger with 13 str, 15 dex, 16 const, 11 int, 14 wis and 15 cha, H'D, Cernd, Valyger and Imeon, that was a tough game. Took me like 300 days (game days), but fun

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Nov 30, 2001 8:22 pm

Originally posted by Kovi:
<STRONG>I'm still playing the solo shapeshifter druid without items; just reached Suldanesselar.
I can tell you that the druid is the weakest single spellcaster class in SoA (xp cap). The (ToB enhanced) shapeshifter's fighting abilites are awesome, but has its limitations. The biggest problem is the low level(14) which mean weak saves and only a few high level spells (3x5, 2x6, 1x7). If it weren't for that Nature's Beuty spell, many boss fights couldn't be finished (without resting). Nevertheless it is a challenge!
With ToB and level 15 (3M xp) things will became totally different (I hope)! But in the end it still will be very hard I think.</STRONG>

Have you downloaded the Ascension mod? Then you are in for a challenge!! Let us know how you fare.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:07 am

in tob cernd rocks! many more spells than jaheria. (here's a quick secret use jaheria for soa, once you make the tob changeover add cerd he'll get bumped up to 2.5 mil xp once he gets to level 15 he'll have a lot of spells and a powerful combat form.

equip him like a mage: bracers, rings protection. helms. earth control ring, these will also be active in greater werewolf form.

in boss fights, energy blades! he can have a whole bunch of them due to the strange spell advancement chart.

if cernd had a personality he'd be really great, but you can't have everything or so i'm told...

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 5:22 am

I have already decided to became evil (for the first time!). Role playing aspect: I have eliminated even the neutral/good powers like the Shadow Thieves, Dragons and Drizzt, so I'm already evil.

Powergamer aspect: I needed the best result in hell; for a shapeshifter the AC (also Dex) and Thac0 (Str) are very important. Mixed aspect: I had to use the Slayer form more and more. It helps in the Twisted Rune and against Bodhi, very useful against the Demon Knights (fear, level drain) and a must against Kangaxx (imprisonment, +4 weapon). In the hell I also needed the Slayer to get the fear tear and it also helps against the Slayer Irenicus.
Anyway in the hell I had to gave up some fights and avoid the all-seeing Elder Orbs and the Demons of Irenicus. Earlier I only gave up some of the improved dragon fights.
All in all, it was an extreme challenge. I have never died so many times and had to analyse much, but this gave more insights of the game and the opponents. For the sorcerer it was basically enough to know the magic (and fire) resistance of the enemies. With the shapeshifter I had to consider their weapon enhancements, weapon immunites, thac0, special hit effects, spells, mental immunities and saves. I might open a new thread to summarize these experiments.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 7:12 am

But that corresponds to the SoA board, so let's switch to ToB.

I have already installed all the improved fights, though I'm not sure I can even do the original ones. The Ascension mod is very tempting, but I will surely fail.
I have already decided to start ToB with a single level up (I cut back my xp to 3M). What's a difference! 18 slots on 5/6/7 levels, instead of 6!
For the high level abilities I have choosen the Elemental Summoning. Elemental Princes are better fighter than Devas (except against demons). I could only have one for each of them at a time so I will use both, but start with the better one.
What is interesting in the normal Elemental Summoning spell that it gives much more than the description says. In one occasion I got one elemental and a prince for the first cast and 2 elementals and another(!) prince for the second. Unfortunately they lasts only one turn, so I still need some 6th level Fire Elemental cast for their longer term.
Anyway I definitely needed the level up for the improved Illasera fight! I'll be back (if I survive)...

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 8:47 am

Interesting story Kovi. I like to hear about how people try to solo the "weaker" soloclasses.
If only the spirit animals had enchannted "weapons" I would love to try and solo a totemic druid. Come to think of it they beefed up the shapeshifters form for ToB, what happened to the avenger and totemic druid?

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Bruce Lee ]

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 1:01 pm

Solo druids are great for the first half of SoA (level up quickly), but they struggle the second half. And I think that will be the same for ToB.
And in ToB there is not much difference between the kits as all have those high level spells and abilities. The shapehifter enhancement (AC around -10) does matter in SoA, especially when playing without items.

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 8:24 pm

I've been resisting this, but have failed. What's a druid worth?

Avenger $0.01 /lb
Cernd $0.02 /lb
Totemic $0.03 /lb
Shapeshifter $0.04 /lb
Jaheria $0.05 /lb

All orders made by midnight tonight come on a bed of woodchips. - Curdis

ReignsOfPower · Post by **ReignsOfPower** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:01 am

I had Cernd in my party. He is by far the best Druid in the game closely followed by Anomen. (I was a good aligned party).

Say what? Spaeshifters cant wear armor? Guess again! Pull out the White Dragon scale and Shadow Dragon Scale and proove yourself wrong. My Cernd had a -8 AC. And no I did not give him all the best stuff. He had the highest AC in my party. (Even Imoen had -9)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 4:31 am

*Buys Jaheira for $5.99*

Sorry... I just couldn't resist.

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 7:11 am

Originally posted by Bruce Lee:
<STRONG>Interesting story Kovi. I like to hear about how people try to solo the "weaker" soloclasses.
If only the spirit animals had enchannted "weapons" I would love to try and solo a totemic druid.

</STRONG>

Bruce, but they do have such (+5/+6) I've asked Kevin about this enchanted/magical thing and have got ansver that enchantement is all what needed, being checked magical doesn't matters if only causes problems sometimes.
BTW, just now i'm going to play fighter dualed at once to (totemic) druid (i know it's not completely legal, just a bit of disagreement with developers

).

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Loredweller ]

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 7:24 am

BTW, returning to Totemic Druid. IMHO, it's the most powerful druid, at least in first chapters. He gets spirit animals with +5/+6 weapons, immune to panic, poison, sleep, petrifaction, confusion, charm, berserk, hold creature, slay, stun and more...
The thing i would wish is if they might develop in some way while the druid advances in levels - say, stay longer or so.

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Loredweller ]

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Tue Dec 04, 2001 10:57 am

As I remember I had problems with the Magical/Enchantment flag.
My solo sorcerer (without items) started in ToB (no weapon immunity) was not able to defend with Protection from Magical weapons against some monsters which have erronously missed the magical flag.
But when I "added" the immunity, their weapons became ineffective.