Hi everyone,
I recently just finished IWD 1 and really enjoyed the game. I enjoyed the general role-playing and the quests and the fact that there was a generally evil guy at the end of the game to eliminate in order to save a community. Now here in IWD 2 , a lot of the threads are all about character design and power gaming and multi-classing this class with that class and how powerful a character you can build...*yawn*. Now for me I couldn't care less about this (I really hate 3e rules especially all this multi-classing which I find a bit ludicrous -- yes I probably offended a lot of you - sorry...and yes, there are problems with 2e rules but that's a debate for another time).
My question is it worth playing the game - is there an overall quest so that there is a point to the game like in IWD 1? If the game is just about hacking and slashing is it worth taking the time to do a play through? (Yes, I bought the who set all at once so I have IWD 2 as well). And, yes I read some of the walk-throughs to get a general idea of the game but a lot seems to be dedicated to character design and what/how to battle - what is the overall sense of the story in IWD 2, is there one???
If the general consensus is that the game is worth trying then I will use my IWD 1 characters (or more correctly their descendents and give the game a try).
My party consists of:
Fighter/Mage or druid (half-elf)- multi-class
Fighter/thief (elf)- multi-class
Cleric (human)
Mage(gnome)
Bard (half-elf) - have to take one a long or who will tell our great deeds to the world
Fighter (could be a Paladin) (human) or maybe a monk (haven't played one since Baldur's Gate 2)
So, general thoughts about IWD 2 and its overall story and what ever ideas or thoughts you have to a new player into IWD 2 and 3e (which I detest - so any character advice please limit to what is needed to limit the amount of character designing I have to do - I am more a role player rather than a character designer looking for cool character class combinations).
Thanks
New Player - thoughts on IDW 2 overall story line + role playing
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magisensei1
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:45 am
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Hi! 
You'll probably get some varied replies to your question, since it's a highly subjective topic.
In my opinion, yes, there's an overall quest and point to the game, but it's not as good as IWD's.
IWD's story is rather subtle, but also charming in it's "defeat the big bad evil boss after you found out who's behind all of this" plot.
I find IWD2's story to be a bit more complex than IWD's, while at the same time not being really important to the overall game.
The game tries to assign the villains some background and motivations, but can't really pull it off (at least for me). If I remember correctly, someone on this boards wrote once that the story made them want to join the "bad guys" instead of opposing them, since they fight for a fair cause, even if their methods are questionable.
IWD2 also tries it's hands at a more complex presentation, but - again - can't really pull it off, in my opinion. There are a lot more npcs who you'll meet during the game and who'll play a smaller or bigger role in the overall sheme of things.
Compare this to IWD, where the story is about your band of wannabe heroes. They interact with Arundel...and that's basically it, as far as plot-relevant npcs are concerned.
IWD2 has many more. Unfortunately, they are not always very remarkable or if they are they'll often only show up for a short time, thus giving you the impression that they'll play a larger role than they acutally do. Personally, I've had some problems telling a few npcs apart, but I can't blame this solely on the writing - the Infinity Engine and it's lack of npc portrait's can make it hard to tell npcs apart if they use the same avatars.
That doesn't mean IWD2 is a bad game. It just put it's focus on a different spot - the presentation of it's story. This works well for some people, but I greatly prefer IWD's subtle presentation and overall plot.
As far as general advice goes: In my opinion, spellcasters, especially wizards and sorcerers, are more powerful in IWD2. This might be due to the D&D 3E rules or because the game doesn't put as much emphasis on martial (esp. ranged) combat as IWD does.
That said, most parties are totally playable on normal difficulty and your party looks fine to me.
Keep in mind that multiclassing works differently in 3E. There's no multi- and dual-classing, but you can decide at each levelup what class to advance in. It's a bit similar to dual-classing in IWD, but without the restrictions, both attribute, race and leveling-wise.
Hope this helps!
You'll probably get some varied replies to your question, since it's a highly subjective topic.
In my opinion, yes, there's an overall quest and point to the game, but it's not as good as IWD's.
IWD's story is rather subtle, but also charming in it's "defeat the big bad evil boss after you found out who's behind all of this" plot.
I find IWD2's story to be a bit more complex than IWD's, while at the same time not being really important to the overall game.
The game tries to assign the villains some background and motivations, but can't really pull it off (at least for me). If I remember correctly, someone on this boards wrote once that the story made them want to join the "bad guys" instead of opposing them, since they fight for a fair cause, even if their methods are questionable.
IWD2 also tries it's hands at a more complex presentation, but - again - can't really pull it off, in my opinion. There are a lot more npcs who you'll meet during the game and who'll play a smaller or bigger role in the overall sheme of things.
Compare this to IWD, where the story is about your band of wannabe heroes. They interact with Arundel...and that's basically it, as far as plot-relevant npcs are concerned.
IWD2 has many more. Unfortunately, they are not always very remarkable or if they are they'll often only show up for a short time, thus giving you the impression that they'll play a larger role than they acutally do. Personally, I've had some problems telling a few npcs apart, but I can't blame this solely on the writing - the Infinity Engine and it's lack of npc portrait's can make it hard to tell npcs apart if they use the same avatars.
That doesn't mean IWD2 is a bad game. It just put it's focus on a different spot - the presentation of it's story. This works well for some people, but I greatly prefer IWD's subtle presentation and overall plot.
As far as general advice goes: In my opinion, spellcasters, especially wizards and sorcerers, are more powerful in IWD2. This might be due to the D&D 3E rules or because the game doesn't put as much emphasis on martial (esp. ranged) combat as IWD does.
That said, most parties are totally playable on normal difficulty and your party looks fine to me.
Keep in mind that multiclassing works differently in 3E. There's no multi- and dual-classing, but you can decide at each levelup what class to advance in. It's a bit similar to dual-classing in IWD, but without the restrictions, both attribute, race and leveling-wise.
Hope this helps!
The reason why most threads are about powergaming is because IWD2 probably has the best combat of the infinity engine games. The story is fine, with some nice moments ("I have another suggestion, how about we load the airship with explosives and "land" it on the bridge" is probably the funniest reply I have ever had my character give).
I'd suggest not mixing much thief in your fighters, since they'll need the fighter levels to hit things (and survive when they hit back, alternatively go mostly thief with some fighter/barbarian for spice). Might want to go with a paladin and a monk for front line duties (both have their own little story moment to shine, so does a transmuter specialist mage and a banite cleric). Heck, the monk has a nice monastery level he can ace through, and while his attacks are a bit bugged (not terribly so), he makes up for it by letting you do heroic (not smart) things like dropping fireballs when he's swarmed (imp evasion). I'd take the Druid over the fighter mage, less fiddly, different spells are always nice for variation and he'll only compete with the bard for armor (and like the cleric, he can hold his own on the front lines). Besides, you'll be trekking long distances through hostile wilderness, who else is going to lead the way? The Bard?
I'd suggest not mixing much thief in your fighters, since they'll need the fighter levels to hit things (and survive when they hit back, alternatively go mostly thief with some fighter/barbarian for spice). Might want to go with a paladin and a monk for front line duties (both have their own little story moment to shine, so does a transmuter specialist mage and a banite cleric). Heck, the monk has a nice monastery level he can ace through, and while his attacks are a bit bugged (not terribly so), he makes up for it by letting you do heroic (not smart) things like dropping fireballs when he's swarmed (imp evasion). I'd take the Druid over the fighter mage, less fiddly, different spells are always nice for variation and he'll only compete with the bard for armor (and like the cleric, he can hold his own on the front lines). Besides, you'll be trekking long distances through hostile wilderness, who else is going to lead the way? The Bard?
There isn't AS much multi-classing optimization if you only play without heart of fury (HoF). The reason is that casters gimp themselves by multi-classing as you never hit 20, I level squatted and still only managed 16. So that leaves non-casters: fighter, barbarian, rogue, monk, and ranger. Spellswords are better as divine casters than mage/fighter though the latter is still quite good.
Rogue is underpowered so it is often used giving 1 level to a intelligent mageX/rogue1. This gives a swiss army knife real punch. The gimped caster level is given in exchange for thieves skills. You can also take a fighterx/rogue1 and only use the thieves skills that are non-armor hindrances; if you really need armor at that time mage armor from a caster buddy will help. For that build you need a high intelligence to your fighter. Another rogue mix avoiding need for intelligence is a rogueX/rangerY. Since ranger gets 6 skills/level you can top off the essential rogue skills.
Fighter is a good class and it progresses with a goody every 2 levels rather than a power curve where you need a lot of levels to shine. Fighter/bard just for song is a possibility. As a mix-in for any warrior class it is good because you choose how many levels to mix. Also dwarves have some nice abilities. FighterXPaladin1 is good and fighter 4/ (Pal or Barb).
Barb is a good mixin for speed and HP as the small level mixin (a few levels of barb and something else). For a lot of levels barb it's nice to keep pure if you are using rage and damage reduction. But rage is actually not good because strength of bull duplicates. Thus makes more sense in a party without many casters to buff.
Ranger is the worst class unless you take advantage of 6 skillpoints by mixing with rogue. You can get a favored enemy and TWF+ambidexterity for one level and that is a good mixin to a warrior. Pure ranger doesn't give much compared to Barbs HP or fighters feats. Unfortunately you lose dual wield in not light armor. You'd probably wear mage armor and 18 dex at character creation = 8 armor, whereas no ranger mixin can have beetle armor with 12 dex for 9 armor and pump the skillpoints you spent on dex somewhere else as rangers need STR DEX CON INT (only if mixed with rogue for swiss knife), WIS and not CHA
Paladin is an awesome 1 mixin to a warrior for saves. You can also build a pure or fighter 1-4. The pure one is a little pain because stats are thin.
Monk I haven't tried but it's pretty obviously a 1 mixin for evasion or else a pure monk.
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I think the scene and feel to each module is cool and the variety of monsters and so forth is satisfying. The story is interesting for a tactical game. There are many unique scenes and I don't want to spoil your game! The sound track is awesome. The plot is ok but of course it is a linear story. There is some nice dialogue but that is limited by being '6 generic heros from Luskan'.
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One last thing about multi-classing. You don't have to do it. You'll still be a powerhouse pure leveled. The learning curve of tactics is 5 times as important as optimizing a min-max munchkin build party. In vanilla as I said multi-classing often makes you weaker with the exceptions I listed 2 above here ^^
Rogue is underpowered so it is often used giving 1 level to a intelligent mageX/rogue1. This gives a swiss army knife real punch. The gimped caster level is given in exchange for thieves skills. You can also take a fighterx/rogue1 and only use the thieves skills that are non-armor hindrances; if you really need armor at that time mage armor from a caster buddy will help. For that build you need a high intelligence to your fighter. Another rogue mix avoiding need for intelligence is a rogueX/rangerY. Since ranger gets 6 skills/level you can top off the essential rogue skills.
Fighter is a good class and it progresses with a goody every 2 levels rather than a power curve where you need a lot of levels to shine. Fighter/bard just for song is a possibility. As a mix-in for any warrior class it is good because you choose how many levels to mix. Also dwarves have some nice abilities. FighterXPaladin1 is good and fighter 4/ (Pal or Barb).
Barb is a good mixin for speed and HP as the small level mixin (a few levels of barb and something else). For a lot of levels barb it's nice to keep pure if you are using rage and damage reduction. But rage is actually not good because strength of bull duplicates. Thus makes more sense in a party without many casters to buff.
Ranger is the worst class unless you take advantage of 6 skillpoints by mixing with rogue. You can get a favored enemy and TWF+ambidexterity for one level and that is a good mixin to a warrior. Pure ranger doesn't give much compared to Barbs HP or fighters feats. Unfortunately you lose dual wield in not light armor. You'd probably wear mage armor and 18 dex at character creation = 8 armor, whereas no ranger mixin can have beetle armor with 12 dex for 9 armor and pump the skillpoints you spent on dex somewhere else as rangers need STR DEX CON INT (only if mixed with rogue for swiss knife), WIS and not CHA
Paladin is an awesome 1 mixin to a warrior for saves. You can also build a pure or fighter 1-4. The pure one is a little pain because stats are thin.
Monk I haven't tried but it's pretty obviously a 1 mixin for evasion or else a pure monk.
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I think the scene and feel to each module is cool and the variety of monsters and so forth is satisfying. The story is interesting for a tactical game. There are many unique scenes and I don't want to spoil your game! The sound track is awesome. The plot is ok but of course it is a linear story. There is some nice dialogue but that is limited by being '6 generic heros from Luskan'.
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One last thing about multi-classing. You don't have to do it. You'll still be a powerhouse pure leveled. The learning curve of tactics is 5 times as important as optimizing a min-max munchkin build party. In vanilla as I said multi-classing often makes you weaker with the exceptions I listed 2 above here ^^
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
murph wrote:The reason why most threads are about powergaming is because IWD2 probably has the best combat of the infinity engine games. The story is fine, with some nice moments ("I have another suggestion, how about we load the airship with explosives and "land" it on the bridge" is probably the funniest reply I have ever had my character give).
I'd suggest not mixing much thief in your fighters, since they'll need the fighter levels to hit things (and survive when they hit back, alternatively go mostly thief with some fighter/barbarian for spice). Might want to go with a paladin and a monk for front line duties (both have their own little story moment to shine, so does a transmuter specialist mage and a banite cleric). Heck, the monk has a nice monastery level he can ace through, and while his attacks are a bit bugged (not terribly so), he makes up for it by letting you do heroic (not smart) things like dropping fireballs when he's swarmed (imp evasion). I'd take the Druid over the fighter mage, less fiddly, different spells are always nice for variation and he'll only compete with the bard for armor (and like the cleric, he can hold his own on the front lines). Besides, you'll be trekking long distances through hostile wilderness, who else is going to lead the way? The Bard?
um no.. i like all my baldurs gate and icewind dale games including icewind dale 2, at which point im half way thru hof mode and must say this is totally wrong, icewind dale2 out of all 4 has hands down the most gimmicky and faulty combat system of all, the mere fact that i can resilient sphere a character then sit there and aoe down everything that piled on it thanks to the never change a target ai have resulted in some very ez battles (given that hof mode isnt mega hard mode its just 16-30 mode so everythings upped a bit) however the never change targets ai, the fact that even the highest lvl monsters wont use more then a few strong spells and the hof enemy monster summons coming in with normal mode stats, as well as a vast majority of the battles having 0 see invis mobs other then 1 or 2 named in the whole bunch put the game far from having the best combat of the set.
not trying to be a downer because i do like the game, the fact that i can kill all the monks in black raven in order to not have to do the trials, something most people forget, as well as the games wave battle system so some fights become more of an endurance thing then a horrid wilting spell trigger instant win+ rest, is nice even if the combat ai is really bugged.
Seeing as all the IE games have systems that can be easily exploited, I honestly don't see why a few exploits make it "the worst"
However the waves, in addition to the fact that the terrain can often be used to actually let the fighters tank , as well as the 3ed rules, and the fact that encounters are usually reasonably balanced for your level puts it on top in my book.
However the waves, in addition to the fact that the terrain can often be used to actually let the fighters tank , as well as the 3ed rules, and the fact that encounters are usually reasonably balanced for your level puts it on top in my book.
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LastDanceSaloon
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:59 pm
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My question is it worth playing the game
Absolutely, yes.
is there an overall quest so that there is a point to the game like in IWD 1?
Yes there is, but as Endugu said, they goofed the motivation aspect. If you put that to one side and go with the fact that they're (yup, there's two of them) homicidal maniacs then it's PRGable.
Is
the game is just about hacking and slashing
Not at all. Like Icewind Dale 1 there are plenty of monsters to take out and, every now and then, you do get a bit hacked off by it (excuse the pun), but the whole makes up for the parts. The game is mainly about puzzle solving funnily enough and this is the real reason a lot of people disparage the game as it alienates both the crunchers and the role players - but delights that's other section, the puzzle solvers.
is it worth taking the time to do a play through?
Absolutely, yes. It is longer than the first one though, mainly due to the time-outs to solve puzzles.
what is the overall sense of the story in IWD 2, is there one???
Yes, but there are so many side-quests and bits and bobs that you tend to forget the main quest while playing but it all makes (some kind of) sense in the end.
I will use my IWD 1 characters
Sounds excellent for RPGing, that's what I did and I wasn't disappointed and could still get into my characters.
Some extra notes:
One of the most common major gripes is that the first chapter is 'well boring' because you don't get any real battles if you don't want them for quite a long time - a lot more initial town running about and chatting than IWD1. However, the first time you play this isn't such a big deal, this mainly grates on replays, and mainly grates the bloodlusters. I suspect you'll quite like the opening.
The next 'boringest' bit then follows the opening bit, where you fight orcs for what seems like an eternity, but in reality is just a few screens. This section is quite fun for bloodlusters but drags on everyone else.
After that almost every screen/area is a completely different environment.
Don't forget to fight the six adventurers in the graveyard - it's one of the best combat tests in cRPG history, but also fun in the manner of it's discovery and reward. The reward is a must have if you take a Paladin. Seek out a walkthrough for that bit. Also, fighting The Guardian is also legendary, again, not just for the fight, but all the bits that go with it!
Go for it!
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magisensei1
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:45 am
- Contact:
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the quick replies and advice. I've started the game and I have to say it takes a while to get through all the character designing at the beginning - what do all the skills and feats all mean? I had to search to figure out what they all did and how to assign them with minimal effort.
So my team is essentially the descended of the team that went through IWD 1 - as time has passed and everyone gets to retire after a hard life of adventuring. My team tries to incorporate everything that IWD offers in terms of races and classes. So here is the line up:
Assuna: barbarian/fighter (nominal leader of the team)- dwarf - A love of adventuring has brought her and her friends up north. As a child she played and wandered the Steeps where she grew up and as such she grew up with the hordes of the Steep (in other words she was trained with the hordes of barbarians) but having studied and traveled with her family she became a fighter to refine her skills.
Kaede: rogue/monk (the "semi-quasi ninja-scout-thief" - who came back to join her friends after sending time traveling in the East) lol- strongheart halfling
Lady Konoka: cleric (cleric of helm) - human- the daughter of a Provincial Lord - wild and free she loves to travel and aid those in need. Her calling is that of healer.
Setsuna: fighter/paladin - aasimar - Lady Konoka's bodyguard and protector - She has always protected her from the shadows and now that Lady K has decided to travel the world she has decided to join her - she fights all those that would harm her mistress.
Zazumi: bard/sorcerer - wild elf- wild and overly curious - she left her forest home to indulge in her curiosity and storytelling - she is our storyteller and reporter of everything - she loves a good scoop and will do a lot to get the ultimate story. Nothing is too dangerous or strange for her.
Lingshen: wizard/rogue - tiefling - More wizard than rogue - she seeks her to expand her knowledge and change the world to fit her vision of the world. What that vision/dream is, is anyone's guess but it is for a better world that she envisions - she is of course a genius and knows what best for everyone.
The story starts off a bit slow (prologue) but it was enjoyable and we got to save a ghost in the process
Some of the things that I noticed as I went through the prologue and into chapter 1 (where I am currently) is that the magical items really do suck a lot so far and the spells have been considerably changed from IWD 1. No more 8 hour magical armor for my mage.
I think the most annoying thing is the character screen - so much buttons to push just to see the different stats - I personally preferred IWD 1's character screen and how the playing screen was actually set up.
Another annoying thing is the weapon screen - while there is more choice for weapons - there is also the fact that I need 4 shields if I have four different weapons - what happens if I just have the one magical shield and need to switch from swords to hammers? There goes my magical shield and its benefits?
If I have a weapon in the weapon slot and it offers protection from disease for example does the weapon have to be used in hand or just on the weapon slot to be considered under the magical protection? (there is no icon showing if I am protected or not - even when its the weapon in hand).
I also noticed there doesn't seem to be a lot of xp points given for jobs done - of course I am early in the game but it seems like a few xp seems really low as compared to IWD 1 - of course this doesn't really affect character advancement.
Some questions:
Can clerics cast in armor like in IWD1 or does my cleric need armor casting to reduce the chance of failure?
If you are a multiclass character like mine are - how do you determine the 'to hit' when hitting a creature - lets say you are a bard/sorcerer - do you use the wizard table to the bard table for 'to hit' when attacking? Does it depend on the higher level or the best 'to hit' table for the character (ie because a bard has a better to hit than a mage - she would use the bard table to determine if she hit or not - regardless of how many levels of bard or sorcerer she had).
I have to say that ranged attacks really is horribly done in the game - no multiple attacks using bows it seems - which I think is a bit odd since I can fire a bow/throw things a lot faster than a crossbow but I still only get one attack per round - definitely odd. Plus the selection of bows is horrible - no composite bows at all so far but on the other hand there are a lot of throwing weapons that return.
These feats that my characters have chosen do they really work - like power attack? The feedback doesn't seem to say that I used it and do I use it like a spell and target a creature or just press it and the next attack is a power attack if it lands? If I miss do I lose the feat? { I keep on forgetting to try it in the heat of battle - and Wow - there sure are a lot of monsters to battle and they all come at once - which is cool - really didn't like the luring away that BG2 allowed - monsters should have some brains}
What does armor penalty really do - does it affect my saving throws, attack roles? Is it worth getting better armor like full-plate if I can ever find it or chain mail - if the penalty is higher for better armor then should I get it?
My playing style so far - ignore the 3e rules as much as possible and just role-play with my team and see what happens.
Thanks for the quick replies and advice. I've started the game and I have to say it takes a while to get through all the character designing at the beginning - what do all the skills and feats all mean? I had to search to figure out what they all did and how to assign them with minimal effort.
So my team is essentially the descended of the team that went through IWD 1 - as time has passed and everyone gets to retire after a hard life of adventuring. My team tries to incorporate everything that IWD offers in terms of races and classes. So here is the line up:
Assuna: barbarian/fighter (nominal leader of the team)- dwarf - A love of adventuring has brought her and her friends up north. As a child she played and wandered the Steeps where she grew up and as such she grew up with the hordes of the Steep (in other words she was trained with the hordes of barbarians) but having studied and traveled with her family she became a fighter to refine her skills.
Kaede: rogue/monk (the "semi-quasi ninja-scout-thief" - who came back to join her friends after sending time traveling in the East) lol- strongheart halfling
Lady Konoka: cleric (cleric of helm) - human- the daughter of a Provincial Lord - wild and free she loves to travel and aid those in need. Her calling is that of healer.
Setsuna: fighter/paladin - aasimar - Lady Konoka's bodyguard and protector - She has always protected her from the shadows and now that Lady K has decided to travel the world she has decided to join her - she fights all those that would harm her mistress.
Zazumi: bard/sorcerer - wild elf- wild and overly curious - she left her forest home to indulge in her curiosity and storytelling - she is our storyteller and reporter of everything - she loves a good scoop and will do a lot to get the ultimate story. Nothing is too dangerous or strange for her.
Lingshen: wizard/rogue - tiefling - More wizard than rogue - she seeks her to expand her knowledge and change the world to fit her vision of the world. What that vision/dream is, is anyone's guess but it is for a better world that she envisions - she is of course a genius and knows what best for everyone.
The story starts off a bit slow (prologue) but it was enjoyable and we got to save a ghost in the process
Some of the things that I noticed as I went through the prologue and into chapter 1 (where I am currently) is that the magical items really do suck a lot so far and the spells have been considerably changed from IWD 1. No more 8 hour magical armor for my mage.
I think the most annoying thing is the character screen - so much buttons to push just to see the different stats - I personally preferred IWD 1's character screen and how the playing screen was actually set up.
Another annoying thing is the weapon screen - while there is more choice for weapons - there is also the fact that I need 4 shields if I have four different weapons - what happens if I just have the one magical shield and need to switch from swords to hammers? There goes my magical shield and its benefits?
If I have a weapon in the weapon slot and it offers protection from disease for example does the weapon have to be used in hand or just on the weapon slot to be considered under the magical protection? (there is no icon showing if I am protected or not - even when its the weapon in hand).
I also noticed there doesn't seem to be a lot of xp points given for jobs done - of course I am early in the game but it seems like a few xp seems really low as compared to IWD 1 - of course this doesn't really affect character advancement.
Some questions:
Can clerics cast in armor like in IWD1 or does my cleric need armor casting to reduce the chance of failure?
If you are a multiclass character like mine are - how do you determine the 'to hit' when hitting a creature - lets say you are a bard/sorcerer - do you use the wizard table to the bard table for 'to hit' when attacking? Does it depend on the higher level or the best 'to hit' table for the character (ie because a bard has a better to hit than a mage - she would use the bard table to determine if she hit or not - regardless of how many levels of bard or sorcerer she had).
I have to say that ranged attacks really is horribly done in the game - no multiple attacks using bows it seems - which I think is a bit odd since I can fire a bow/throw things a lot faster than a crossbow but I still only get one attack per round - definitely odd. Plus the selection of bows is horrible - no composite bows at all so far but on the other hand there are a lot of throwing weapons that return.
These feats that my characters have chosen do they really work - like power attack? The feedback doesn't seem to say that I used it and do I use it like a spell and target a creature or just press it and the next attack is a power attack if it lands? If I miss do I lose the feat? { I keep on forgetting to try it in the heat of battle - and Wow - there sure are a lot of monsters to battle and they all come at once - which is cool - really didn't like the luring away that BG2 allowed - monsters should have some brains}
What does armor penalty really do - does it affect my saving throws, attack roles? Is it worth getting better armor like full-plate if I can ever find it or chain mail - if the penalty is higher for better armor then should I get it?
My playing style so far - ignore the 3e rules as much as possible and just role-play with my team and see what happens.
IWD2 is definitely worth playing. The powergaming guides you read are thought experiments about what the most powerful combination would be if you cheat your party up to level 30, not about how to play the game.
Be aware that there are no items or spells which set attributes to a fixed value, so high strength is essential for doing physical damage this will speed up combat and shift the focus more towards roleplaying. Definitely max it for all who aren't primary casters unless you enjoy slow combat and an imbalance towards spellcasters. A warrior or thief with low str is like a mage with low int.
Be aware that multiclassing works differently than in the older games, you don't get the first 9-11 levels for the price of 1. In BG2 you could have a fighter9/mage11 with the experience needed to get a level 12 mage, in IWD2 you only get a fighter6/mage6 limited to level 1-3 spells with low casting level which are quite useless when you're supposed to be able to cast level 6 spells. The equivalent of 2e multiclassing with shared XP in IWD2 is taking only 1 level in the warrior class and even this often is not worth the delay in casting progression.
About your party:
As first character I'd take a pure class druid, you have 6 characters who can fight but only one for casting druid spells. At most I'd add 1 fighter or barbarian (+2HP, extra speed and rage which also works shapeshifted help more than a fighter bonus feat) level, but I don't think it's worth delaying the spellcasting progression.
If you go fighter/mage (definitely take a specialist school like transmuter or diviner) with even levels be aware that "mirror image" will be the only really useful spell and I doubt it's worth the lower HP, armor restriction and inferior BAB progression. Fighter1/mage is the closest you can get to 2e fighter/mage multiclass.
Your fighter/thief has to keep the levels even to avoid an XP penalty since neither is the favored class for elves. It should work quite well nevertheless if you max strength.
Cleric is fine whatever deity you choose, just make sure the character's alignment isn't evil (the deity's alignment doesn't matter) for spontaneous healing. Gnome mage is also fine, if you make your first character a fighter1/specialist mage you can choose a sorcerer and enjoy spontaneous spellcasting.
Bards are great. Their songs are so userful that they wouldn't even need spellcasting to be worth it.
For the last character I'd mix fighter with paladin. The reason is that in chapter 5 there's something a pure class paladin refuses to do and later there are also a few extra benefits if you have a part paladin in your party. I'd create a lawful good fighter and add one level of paladin in the later chapters but every level mix works well. Pure class paladin or pure class fighter are of course playable, those extras aren't needed for finishing the game.
Monks are defensive tanks with good saves and AC but relatively low damage output. But I don't think you want to emphasize combat more by making it slower.
Be aware that there are no items or spells which set attributes to a fixed value, so high strength is essential for doing physical damage this will speed up combat and shift the focus more towards roleplaying. Definitely max it for all who aren't primary casters unless you enjoy slow combat and an imbalance towards spellcasters. A warrior or thief with low str is like a mage with low int.
Be aware that multiclassing works differently than in the older games, you don't get the first 9-11 levels for the price of 1. In BG2 you could have a fighter9/mage11 with the experience needed to get a level 12 mage, in IWD2 you only get a fighter6/mage6 limited to level 1-3 spells with low casting level which are quite useless when you're supposed to be able to cast level 6 spells. The equivalent of 2e multiclassing with shared XP in IWD2 is taking only 1 level in the warrior class and even this often is not worth the delay in casting progression.
About your party:
As first character I'd take a pure class druid, you have 6 characters who can fight but only one for casting druid spells. At most I'd add 1 fighter or barbarian (+2HP, extra speed and rage which also works shapeshifted help more than a fighter bonus feat) level, but I don't think it's worth delaying the spellcasting progression.
If you go fighter/mage (definitely take a specialist school like transmuter or diviner) with even levels be aware that "mirror image" will be the only really useful spell and I doubt it's worth the lower HP, armor restriction and inferior BAB progression. Fighter1/mage is the closest you can get to 2e fighter/mage multiclass.
Your fighter/thief has to keep the levels even to avoid an XP penalty since neither is the favored class for elves. It should work quite well nevertheless if you max strength.
Cleric is fine whatever deity you choose, just make sure the character's alignment isn't evil (the deity's alignment doesn't matter) for spontaneous healing. Gnome mage is also fine, if you make your first character a fighter1/specialist mage you can choose a sorcerer and enjoy spontaneous spellcasting.
Bards are great. Their songs are so userful that they wouldn't even need spellcasting to be worth it.
For the last character I'd mix fighter with paladin. The reason is that in chapter 5 there's something a pure class paladin refuses to do and later there are also a few extra benefits if you have a part paladin in your party. I'd create a lawful good fighter and add one level of paladin in the later chapters but every level mix works well. Pure class paladin or pure class fighter are of course playable, those extras aren't needed for finishing the game.
Monks are defensive tanks with good saves and AC but relatively low damage output. But I don't think you want to emphasize combat more by making it slower.
Answers
1) Clerics can cast in armor.
2) The BAB from the different classes is added together, so a bard11/sorcerer4 gets 8+2=10 BAB for example.
3) The number of ranged attacks per round you get is just like the number of melee attacks per round you get, it increases as your BAB increases. You can take the "rapid shot" feat for an extra attack per round. Exception: Most crossbows only grant 1 attack per round independent of BAB and feats.
4) Power attack is a feat you enable once. You select how much to hit bonus is changed into damage bonus and as long as you don't change anything it stays this way.
5) I wouldn't have my characters wear armor they aren't proficient in. Your bard and wizard might fail casting their spells in armor, the monk looses the wisdom bonus to AC while fighters and clerics are proficient with all armor anyway so there's no need to bother.
About your final party:
Multiclass monks don't work. They loose the faster unarmed attack progression if they gain BAB from another class. Their abilities like damage with fists also improve with monk levels so they'll stay pathetic if they have to share levels with another class.
Bard/sorcerer doesn't work well either. You need 11 bard levels to get all songs and for level 1-2 sorcerer spells you give up level 5-6 bard spells (guess what's more useful) and also loose hitpoints and skillpoints.
Looking at your party I get the feeling you're one of those powergamers who think they can cheat the game by trying to exploit what looks like imbalances to them by multiclassing but in the end cheat themselves by creating crippled characters.
What did make you do this ?
If you chose a fighter/barbarian instead of pure barbarian because you think she's more powerful this way, this is not the case. You loose damage reduction and greater rage later in the game.
1) Clerics can cast in armor.
2) The BAB from the different classes is added together, so a bard11/sorcerer4 gets 8+2=10 BAB for example.
3) The number of ranged attacks per round you get is just like the number of melee attacks per round you get, it increases as your BAB increases. You can take the "rapid shot" feat for an extra attack per round. Exception: Most crossbows only grant 1 attack per round independent of BAB and feats.
4) Power attack is a feat you enable once. You select how much to hit bonus is changed into damage bonus and as long as you don't change anything it stays this way.
5) I wouldn't have my characters wear armor they aren't proficient in. Your bard and wizard might fail casting their spells in armor, the monk looses the wisdom bonus to AC while fighters and clerics are proficient with all armor anyway so there's no need to bother.
About your final party:
Multiclass monks don't work. They loose the faster unarmed attack progression if they gain BAB from another class. Their abilities like damage with fists also improve with monk levels so they'll stay pathetic if they have to share levels with another class.
Bard/sorcerer doesn't work well either. You need 11 bard levels to get all songs and for level 1-2 sorcerer spells you give up level 5-6 bard spells (guess what's more useful) and also loose hitpoints and skillpoints.
Looking at your party I get the feeling you're one of those powergamers who think they can cheat the game by trying to exploit what looks like imbalances to them by multiclassing but in the end cheat themselves by creating crippled characters.
What did make you do this ?
If you chose a fighter/barbarian instead of pure barbarian because you think she's more powerful this way, this is not the case. You loose damage reduction and greater rage later in the game.
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magisensei1
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I've never really played with 3e rules and wanted to try everything and if it seemed to fit my characters story so why not give it a try.
Powergaming - never tried that As for exploiting the game engine I am not even sure how I would go about doing that. When you read the descriptions of the races it says recommended class so I just followed what they recommended to do. And if you are role playing you have to have different races - who wants a homogenous group of drows or something... a diverse group with their own quirks sounds fun to me to play.
For me, its just about role playing - does it matter for me that my monk/rogue doesn't have the greatest attack or spell resistance - not really - since she is a thief/quasi- ninja type character that explores the world a head of her party like the character did in IWD1. The meditative feeling that a monk has sort of fits will with my rogue who just arrived from the East after her long travels. As for the barbarian/ fighter its not about how powerful you get but whether or not the character story fits in with the character you made - growing up in the wilds of the great plains with the hordes of "barbarian nomads" she returns to civilization with some skills of barbarian then becomes what she wants to be a fighter or really a sword master.
As for multi-classing when you read the description of the races it says favored class so I tried to put one level in that class just to see if anything interesting would happen to the game play. I also tried to get a diverse group of race but I couldn't imagine a drow or any of the underground races coming to the surface really and I've never really wanted to make a half-orc character - of course I could imagine a half-dwarf /halfling or gnome character - I wonder what they would look like and how they would play and their story - you never see a half-dwarf in the world of fantasy.
But getting back to the topic; For my bard/sorcerer she really is just a bard with 1 level of sorcery just to see if anything would happen to the play of the character if you added another class. Besides getting a bunch of magic missiles there doesn't seem to be an advantage for my bard - BUT isn't the early chapter a great place to play with multiclassing without putting to much into one class or another and just seeing what will happen. As my characters progress through chapter 1 - they remain true to the character roles and personalities I imagined for them. My rogue remains a rogue with a level of monk for the meditative feeling of the character; my fighter is more fighter than barbarian as I imagined; my fighter/paladin is more fighter than paladin (of course I always thought it very odd that you could multi-class a paladin or a monk into another class but the manual and race selection seemed to say it was okay to multi-class into that class - so why not give it a try); my cleric remains a pure cleric; my wizard is a wizard with 1 rogue level.
Its really just about role-playing in part ; and in part playing with the 3e rules that is in IWD2.
If I fleshed out the character descriptions for my characters perhaps it would make more sense why the multi-classing took place outside of the fact that it was a new game engine with new possibilities to play and to see what would happen.
When you play an RPG isn't it about the story behind the character you make. I think about the characters and imagine a story of how they would be and try to make it within the limits of the game - of course it is easier doing in PnP game then in a rpg game.
Powergaming - never tried that As for exploiting the game engine I am not even sure how I would go about doing that. When you read the descriptions of the races it says recommended class so I just followed what they recommended to do. And if you are role playing you have to have different races - who wants a homogenous group of drows or something... a diverse group with their own quirks sounds fun to me to play.
For me, its just about role playing - does it matter for me that my monk/rogue doesn't have the greatest attack or spell resistance - not really - since she is a thief/quasi- ninja type character that explores the world a head of her party like the character did in IWD1. The meditative feeling that a monk has sort of fits will with my rogue who just arrived from the East after her long travels. As for the barbarian/ fighter its not about how powerful you get but whether or not the character story fits in with the character you made - growing up in the wilds of the great plains with the hordes of "barbarian nomads" she returns to civilization with some skills of barbarian then becomes what she wants to be a fighter or really a sword master.
As for multi-classing when you read the description of the races it says favored class so I tried to put one level in that class just to see if anything interesting would happen to the game play. I also tried to get a diverse group of race but I couldn't imagine a drow or any of the underground races coming to the surface really and I've never really wanted to make a half-orc character - of course I could imagine a half-dwarf /halfling or gnome character - I wonder what they would look like and how they would play and their story - you never see a half-dwarf in the world of fantasy.
But getting back to the topic; For my bard/sorcerer she really is just a bard with 1 level of sorcery just to see if anything would happen to the play of the character if you added another class. Besides getting a bunch of magic missiles there doesn't seem to be an advantage for my bard - BUT isn't the early chapter a great place to play with multiclassing without putting to much into one class or another and just seeing what will happen. As my characters progress through chapter 1 - they remain true to the character roles and personalities I imagined for them. My rogue remains a rogue with a level of monk for the meditative feeling of the character; my fighter is more fighter than barbarian as I imagined; my fighter/paladin is more fighter than paladin (of course I always thought it very odd that you could multi-class a paladin or a monk into another class but the manual and race selection seemed to say it was okay to multi-class into that class - so why not give it a try); my cleric remains a pure cleric; my wizard is a wizard with 1 rogue level.
Its really just about role-playing in part ; and in part playing with the 3e rules that is in IWD2.
If I fleshed out the character descriptions for my characters perhaps it would make more sense why the multi-classing took place outside of the fact that it was a new game engine with new possibilities to play and to see what would happen.
When you play an RPG isn't it about the story behind the character you make. I think about the characters and imagine a story of how they would be and try to make it within the limits of the game - of course it is easier doing in PnP game then in a rpg game.
I think you'd get the same RP satisfaction if you fleshed out the biography of your characters as you described, but not let them constrict themselves with the rules. IWD2 may not be hard, but deliberately gimping your characters seldom leads to a better enjoyment of the game. (Unless you know what you're doing and want the challenge.) Afterall, the combat engine is cold, hard math.
To be clear: I'm not saying that RP is bad, but you can have fun & good RPing AND efficient characters. Do not limit your RP to the name of the classes. (For example, your Rogue could be a Fighter/Rogue with Iron Will feat & ranks in Concentration, and you'd get the same "feel", but have a more effective character.
Follow kmonster's advice, he has some of the best to offer on these games.
To be clear: I'm not saying that RP is bad, but you can have fun & good RPing AND efficient characters. Do not limit your RP to the name of the classes. (For example, your Rogue could be a Fighter/Rogue with Iron Will feat & ranks in Concentration, and you'd get the same "feel", but have a more effective character.
Follow kmonster's advice, he has some of the best to offer on these games.
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magisensei1
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I see what you saying and never really thought about how efficient a character should be - I am still thinking in terms of 2e where I can multiclass and the oddness of multi-classing in 3e. 3e rules on this and that - more things about efficient characters versus crippling a character because of multi-classing choices (never considered this)- so much to consider that when I made my team I decided to think in terms of role-playing (ignoring 3e and the game engine) rather than how efficient they could be and see where the game would take me.
You're seeing RPing as too entwined with the rules. You can RP a character with 20 levels in Fighter perfectly well as a Barbarian. Your Bard can dabble in arcane magic as a single class Bard, since he gets arcane spells at later levels anyway. The concept of a Fighter/Mage is sadly hard to achieve in IWD2. (But not in P&P 3E, given the multitude of options you have there.)
magisensei, I apologize for my remark about powergaming. I was just surprised that you suddenly switched to a party with heavy multiclassing after your rant in your first post. Bard11/sorcerer19 is a build you can find in powergaming guides for example but this requires cheating your character level up to 30.
In a normal game your characters reach only level 16-17 (just enough for mages and priests to cast the highest level spells, the game is balanced for pure class casters) and are of course lower level during most of the game, so adding sorcerer levels to the bard won't help.
In 3e you don't invest XP in multiclassing, you invest levels which are and stay subtracted from the main class.
Favored class doesn't mean you should multiclass with it, it only says you don't get an XP penalty when multiclassing unevenly.
About your party:
It is strong enough to beat the game. Essential are a cleric and a wizard/sorcerer who get access to high level spells as early as possible and bard songs help a lot.
If Lady Konoka stays pure class and has high enough wisdom the cleric part is covered optimally.
The wizard part is not covered as good. Since she has a rogue level and gets one level ECL penalty she'll be 2 wizard levels lower than she's supposed to, you learn level 5 spells when you're supposed to learn level 6 spells for example and the spell effects depending on casting level and number of spells per day are also inferior. It's a little less than 2 levels because of the 1000 starting XP bonus and how the dynamic XP calculation works but it's still far more than 1 level. But with a little difficulty it should work, at least you'll barely reach new spell levels before finding scrolls to learn them, level 9 spells are out of reach.
Your bard will be able to sing all songs if you manage to reach 11 bard levels so the sorcerer level weakens your character but doesn't ruin her.
For your fighters multiclassing doesn't hurt, paladin and barbarian levels add the same BAB as fighter levels.
For your rogue/monk compared to pure class rogue the monk levels add a little more HP and better saving throws and speed but don't increase the sneak attack damage. It's ok for the role of rogue (although multiclassing with a warrior class gives more) but you missed the opportunity to play a pure class monk with all the increasing monk benefits.
For me the balance among party members is important, a party should consists of 6 characters with different strengths and weaknesses working together as team where everyone can do something better than others and not 1-2 powerful casters (clerics and sorcerers are almost overpowered in IWD2) who would have an easier time soloing dragging some wimps easily replaced by summons along so I want the non-casters to be strong too.
But it looks like you've managed to find a role for everyone to shine.
Since there are a lot of fights with big monster hordes in the game and enemies generally have more hitpoints (in 3e you keep getting full HD rolls after level 9-10) the ability to dish out damage is important to speed things up.
Don't hesitate to turn down the difficulty if you want to have a faster and easier time in combat, IWD2 scales the difficulty settings better than the older IE games.
In a normal game your characters reach only level 16-17 (just enough for mages and priests to cast the highest level spells, the game is balanced for pure class casters) and are of course lower level during most of the game, so adding sorcerer levels to the bard won't help.
The problem is that if you add a multiclass level to the wrong character you will suffer from it for the rest of the game, even if you only pick bard levels from now on your bard will always be one full bard level lower than she's supposed to be until the end for example.magisensei1 wrote:BUT isn't the early chapter a great place to play with multiclassing without putting to much into one class or another and just seeing what will happen. As my characters progress through chapter 1 - they remain true to the character roles and personalities I imagined for them. My rogue remains a rogue with a level of monk for the meditative feeling of the character; my fighter is more fighter than barbarian as I imagined; my fighter/paladin is more fighter than paladin (of course I always thought it very odd that you could multi-class a paladin or a monk into another class but the manual and race selection seemed to say it was okay to multi-class into that class - so why not give it a try); my cleric remains a pure cleric; my wizard is a wizard with 1 rogue level.
In 3e you don't invest XP in multiclassing, you invest levels which are and stay subtracted from the main class.
Favored class doesn't mean you should multiclass with it, it only says you don't get an XP penalty when multiclassing unevenly.
About your party:
It is strong enough to beat the game. Essential are a cleric and a wizard/sorcerer who get access to high level spells as early as possible and bard songs help a lot.
If Lady Konoka stays pure class and has high enough wisdom the cleric part is covered optimally.
The wizard part is not covered as good. Since she has a rogue level and gets one level ECL penalty she'll be 2 wizard levels lower than she's supposed to, you learn level 5 spells when you're supposed to learn level 6 spells for example and the spell effects depending on casting level and number of spells per day are also inferior. It's a little less than 2 levels because of the 1000 starting XP bonus and how the dynamic XP calculation works but it's still far more than 1 level. But with a little difficulty it should work, at least you'll barely reach new spell levels before finding scrolls to learn them, level 9 spells are out of reach.
Your bard will be able to sing all songs if you manage to reach 11 bard levels so the sorcerer level weakens your character but doesn't ruin her.
For your fighters multiclassing doesn't hurt, paladin and barbarian levels add the same BAB as fighter levels.
For your rogue/monk compared to pure class rogue the monk levels add a little more HP and better saving throws and speed but don't increase the sneak attack damage. It's ok for the role of rogue (although multiclassing with a warrior class gives more) but you missed the opportunity to play a pure class monk with all the increasing monk benefits.
For me the balance among party members is important, a party should consists of 6 characters with different strengths and weaknesses working together as team where everyone can do something better than others and not 1-2 powerful casters (clerics and sorcerers are almost overpowered in IWD2) who would have an easier time soloing dragging some wimps easily replaced by summons along so I want the non-casters to be strong too.
But it looks like you've managed to find a role for everyone to shine.
Since there are a lot of fights with big monster hordes in the game and enemies generally have more hitpoints (in 3e you keep getting full HD rolls after level 9-10) the ability to dish out damage is important to speed things up.
Don't hesitate to turn down the difficulty if you want to have a faster and easier time in combat, IWD2 scales the difficulty settings better than the older IE games.
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LastDanceSaloon
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lol, sandwiched between kmonster and gawainBS on the subject of Min/max'ing, I foresee a 50 post thread!
Ah well, here's my two cents on the sbuject:
kmonster and gawainBS are going to be right in all but pedantic uber-detail, but don't worry about it effecting your RPGing too much, best to take the knowledge on board but continue as you are/intend and then keep all their sound advice as a good fall-back position, or as a base to one day replay to see the difference a point or two here and there in different stats can make.
I don't tend to play Sorcerers, Wizards or Bards much so I can't help much on these classes, but I am very familiar with some others. Clerics for example become truly Godly towards the end of the game and a combination of high Wisdom and careful spell selection can render 90% of all hoards dead in seconds. Having TWO Clerics and, O..M..G, that's awesome. But anyway, min/maxing can always be done another day, I didn't min/max my first time and I still had a blast, including the awesome Cleric spells.
A major differences in the mechanics would be: In IWD1 you get no Attribute points at level up, ever - In IWD2 you get one point to add every 4 levels.
For feat: I never use Power Attack because I too always forget to use it. I always go for passive rather than activated Feats in general. Some good general rules for this approach is - for Fighter classes, go for anything which improves Attack Bonus or Saving Throws/Immunity - for Spellcasters go for spell penetration/power or Saving Throws/Immunity - for Monks go for AC increases or Saving Throws/Immunity - etc etc, you get the idea. The list of Feats seems a bit overwhelming at first but soon narrows as you establish which Feats are generally designed for which class, normally about 4 per class plus all the neutral Feats Like Saving Throw bonuses.
Likewise, the Skills list looks huge but in reality each class will likely stick to just one or two main Skills. A Cleric, for example, only really needs points in Concentration, anything else is just a nice luxury.
The game is more glitchy than the first, so you can expect some stuff not to work, so if you come across these don't get too stressed. The Weapon you mention has to be the one you're actually using, the other slots are just convenience slots - like better placed Inventory.
The Magical Items do improve radically as you progress. It's kind of the reverse to Icewind Dale. In IWD1 you start of rocking then reach a plateau for most of the game whereas in IWD2 you start off a bit lame but soon start to become inundated with items and equipment choices.
XP is quite malleable in IWD2. The Monsters give out XP based on your Character's combined levels. Ergo, there are a huge number of ways to manipulate this so the Monsters give maximum XP. As you're RPing I wouldn't bother with all that and just go through the levels as the game intends. They come at relatively quick intervals and should keep you up to speed well enough - though the game is slightly imbalanced in places making some areas a bit too hard and others a bit too easy.
You ask an awful lot of questions in your posts, it's going to be very difficult to get an uber-detailed response when replies have to cover so much ground - but then 3rd ed rules to change a heck of a lot of the mechanics! Best to take us on one-by-one with them as you encounter them
Ah well, here's my two cents on the sbuject:
kmonster and gawainBS are going to be right in all but pedantic uber-detail, but don't worry about it effecting your RPGing too much, best to take the knowledge on board but continue as you are/intend and then keep all their sound advice as a good fall-back position, or as a base to one day replay to see the difference a point or two here and there in different stats can make.
I don't tend to play Sorcerers, Wizards or Bards much so I can't help much on these classes, but I am very familiar with some others. Clerics for example become truly Godly towards the end of the game and a combination of high Wisdom and careful spell selection can render 90% of all hoards dead in seconds. Having TWO Clerics and, O..M..G, that's awesome. But anyway, min/maxing can always be done another day, I didn't min/max my first time and I still had a blast, including the awesome Cleric spells.
A major differences in the mechanics would be: In IWD1 you get no Attribute points at level up, ever - In IWD2 you get one point to add every 4 levels.
For feat: I never use Power Attack because I too always forget to use it. I always go for passive rather than activated Feats in general. Some good general rules for this approach is - for Fighter classes, go for anything which improves Attack Bonus or Saving Throws/Immunity - for Spellcasters go for spell penetration/power or Saving Throws/Immunity - for Monks go for AC increases or Saving Throws/Immunity - etc etc, you get the idea. The list of Feats seems a bit overwhelming at first but soon narrows as you establish which Feats are generally designed for which class, normally about 4 per class plus all the neutral Feats Like Saving Throw bonuses.
Likewise, the Skills list looks huge but in reality each class will likely stick to just one or two main Skills. A Cleric, for example, only really needs points in Concentration, anything else is just a nice luxury.
The game is more glitchy than the first, so you can expect some stuff not to work, so if you come across these don't get too stressed. The Weapon you mention has to be the one you're actually using, the other slots are just convenience slots - like better placed Inventory.
The Magical Items do improve radically as you progress. It's kind of the reverse to Icewind Dale. In IWD1 you start of rocking then reach a plateau for most of the game whereas in IWD2 you start off a bit lame but soon start to become inundated with items and equipment choices.
XP is quite malleable in IWD2. The Monsters give out XP based on your Character's combined levels. Ergo, there are a huge number of ways to manipulate this so the Monsters give maximum XP. As you're RPing I wouldn't bother with all that and just go through the levels as the game intends. They come at relatively quick intervals and should keep you up to speed well enough - though the game is slightly imbalanced in places making some areas a bit too hard and others a bit too easy.
You ask an awful lot of questions in your posts, it's going to be very difficult to get an uber-detailed response when replies have to cover so much ground - but then 3rd ed rules to change a heck of a lot of the mechanics! Best to take us on one-by-one with them as you encounter them
About feats I disagree a little with LastDanceSaloon, I don't think saving throw improvement feats are worth it, the benefits are too low considering how seldom you have to make saving throw rolls. I wouldn't bother with feats which add only skillpoints either and improved initiative doesn't work.
There are only 2 feats which can make a huge difference, lingering song for the bard and rapid shot which grants an extra ranged attack per round, the rest is optional.
Dodge is quite useful for everyone who can take it and I like giving dash to everyone for faster movement which also helps in combat. Improved Critical is also quite good and fun.
There are only 2 feats which can make a huge difference, lingering song for the bard and rapid shot which grants an extra ranged attack per round, the rest is optional.
Dodge is quite useful for everyone who can take it and I like giving dash to everyone for faster movement which also helps in combat. Improved Critical is also quite good and fun.
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LastDanceSaloon
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I can see where you're coming from, the Saving Throw bonuses can appear quite puny, but also can make quite a big difference if your character is particularly lacking in one specific area, it suits my OCD for equalised stats and can sometimes be the difference between 5 stunned characters and just 3 stunned characters or taking half damage from a spell rather than full damage. Conversely, I always view Dash as relatively puny as it only offers a 15% increase to speed, which is pretty hard to pin down to actual results when an Archer already has Rapid Shot and a high BAB/APR.
I have to agree with you about Criticals, pretty much any character that ends up in melee on a regular basis can benefit greatly from this, and it's a passive so I should have mentioned it in my list for Fighters. Dodge I can't remember so well, is that the one which gives an extra Reflex Save and something else or is that the one which gives 20% Arrow Dodging? If it's the arrow one, again, I find it quite hard to estimate how well it's working with such a small percentage. If it's not either of these two you'll have to remind me what it does, lol.
I have to agree with you about Criticals, pretty much any character that ends up in melee on a regular basis can benefit greatly from this, and it's a passive so I should have mentioned it in my list for Fighters. Dodge I can't remember so well, is that the one which gives an extra Reflex Save and something else or is that the one which gives 20% Arrow Dodging? If it's the arrow one, again, I find it quite hard to estimate how well it's working with such a small percentage. If it's not either of these two you'll have to remind me what it does, lol.
+2 to a saving throw only increases the chance to make the save by 10 percent and this only if save difficulty isn't out of a certain range, so you need at least 20 great fortitude feats to expect 3 instead of 5 stunned characters. And those feats only benefit fortitude saves, spend at least another 20 feats for reflex saves and another 20 for will saves to get the same effect there ...LastDanceSaloon wrote:I can see where you're coming from, the Saving Throw bonuses can appear quite puny, but also can make quite a big difference if your character is particularly lacking in one specific area, it suits my OCD for equalised stats and can sometimes be the difference between 5 stunned characters and just 3 stunned characters or taking half damage from a spell rather than full damage. Conversely, I always view Dash as relatively puny as it only offers a 15% increase to speed, which is pretty hard to pin down to actual results when an Archer already has Rapid Shot and a high BAB/APR.
The level 5 bard song effectively adds +1 to luck and 4 saving throw boosting feats to each of the 6 party members, no need to get more.