Literary references *Slight story spoiler*

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 23, 2001 8:37 pm

Did anyone else notice that the guy at the pub in Amketheram, who had sold his soul to the lich, was named Marlowe? And the lich was named Vongoethe? I found this hillarious

Although slightly spoiler-ish...

Raphtyr · Post by **Raphtyr** » Thu Aug 23, 2001 8:57 pm

It sounds familiar, but what is the literary reference? I cannot remember which book that came from.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Aug 23, 2001 10:59 pm

Both Marlowe and Goethe wrote plays on the Faust legend. Faust sells his soul to a devil.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 12:13 am

OK, now I get it - Vongoethe = Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who wrote what is probably the most famous version of the Faust legend.

That's one of the things I like about this game - there's all kinds of literary references sprinkled through it.

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: Sojourner ]

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 12:46 pm

Originally posted by Sojourner:
<STRONG>That's one of the things I like about this game - there's all kinds of literary references sprinkled through it. </STRONG>

So, could you point out some more for me?

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 5:41 pm

The name of the game is a literary referance.
Balder is straight from north mythology, he was the pretty boy, son of Freya and Odin I believe.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 5:43 pm

Double post, but while I'm here, I'd like to say that again I am impressed by Fable's omni present knowledge

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 5:43 pm

[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: Knight Errant ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 6:25 pm

@CE clearly knows as much.

There's also the little event taking place in the Temple or Government district, with the attractive lover being prompted in his speeches by the ugly man who ultimately gets the girl. That's a bow of homage to Rostand's great play, Cyrano de Bergerac. Of course, in Rostand, Cyrano never gets the girl. I'm glad the Biware folks allowed him to.

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 7:07 pm

Not exactly a great classic in either the great or the classic way, but theres a squirrel and a moose in the promenade. Rocky and Bullwinkle anyone ?

Also, how many of us have had to reload ala Bondari ?

"Oh Captain my Captain" by none other than the coolest beholder to have ever walked the realms. I think it's Moby ****, can someone verify this ?

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 7:27 pm

@Knight Errant: You know you old Nordic mythology, Baldur/Balder, the god of benevolece and light, was indeed the son of Oden and Freja.

Regarding the Cyrano paraphras, I was also happy Cyrano got the girl in BG2

I've always felt sorry for him

There are lot's of literary references in the game, but I haven't played it for a while now...I'll post here if I remember any more

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 7:40 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans:
<STRONG>@Knight Errant: You know you old Nordic mythology, Baldur/Balder, the god of benevolece and light, was indeed the son of Oden and Freja.

Regarding the Cyrano paraphras, I was also happy Cyrano got the girl in BG2 I've always felt sorry for him

There are lot's of literary references in the game, but I haven't played it for a while now...I'll post here if I remember any more </STRONG>

Ditto. I'll look for 'em, too.

Raphtyr · Post by **Raphtyr** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 8:16 pm

What is the Faust Legend? Could someone regale it for me?

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 8:22 pm

Unfourtantely Baldor or Balder either one, the son of Oden and Freya, was killed by the trick of Loki. Freya commanded that all objects on earth will not harm her son. Unfortunately she forgot the mistletoe. Loki give a mistletoe to the blind son of Oden, forgot his name. The blind son throw the mistletoe at Baldor, thinking it was something harmelss, but end up killing Baldor.

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 8:26 pm

Also I think the Spectator Beholder's "Oh Captain My Captain" was from a poem by a famous poet that I studied in my English class, forgot his name, but it goes something like this:

"Oh Captain! My Captain! Our fearful trip is done.
The ship has weather'd every rack, the prize we sought has won,
The port is near, the bells I hear, the poeple all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;
But O Heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead."

That's was the first stanza.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:47 am

I wouldn't say the Baldur/Balder stuff is a literary reference. Just re-using a name. The Baldur that founded Baldur's Gate doesn't seem to be linked in any way to the norse god of spring (unless you really reach for an explanation).

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Sat Aug 25, 2001 11:47 am

Loki was responsible for the death of Balder, Odins perfect son. The blind god Hoder threw it thinking he was playing some sort of dart game. However, the dart was made of mistletoe and when thrown with godly strength, went right threw the heart of Balder.

How is Balder god the same guy who founded Baulders gate?
1) Balder the god was very handsome and visually perfect, note all the charisma stuff available for baulder. I'm sure I can think of more eventually, or C Elegans will.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Aug 25, 2001 1:04 pm

He's not, but I think CE was pointing to the similarity of names being deliberate--a sort of nod of homage in the direction of the Nordic myth cycles.

If you look long and hard enough, you'll find a lot of details like that in some games. For example, there's an unimportant inn in Betrayal at Krondor called The Green Cat, which was deliberately named after a novel by Fritz Leiber: psychiatrist and fantasy author, creators of Fahfrd and The Grey Mouser.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:02 pm

I'm always impressed at the vast artistic knowledge of Fable and others. Is there anything you can't know Fable?

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:02 pm

I am getting really tired of these double posts

[ 08-25-2001: Message edited by: Knight Errant ]

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Literary references Slight story spoiler

Literary references Slight story spoiler